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Media Omerta and Sinn Fein

blanch152

https://thecritic.co.uk/a-crooked-eye/?fbclid=IwAR1zgvJNmRkUk-Ovux8hKXyzYktT3oO7uhksHvE6ApvFgo8dgVSvV3V9zks

A very interesting article on a British website by Slugger O'Toole which addresses the issue of media reluctance to criticise Sinn Fein. The kernel of the argument seems to be as follows:

"The presumption seems to be that in order for the peace settlement to work, everyone else (but especially unionist politicians) must be scrutinised to within an inch of their lives. Whereas Sinn Féin is too dark and deep a hole for any journalist to contemplate looking into for more than a few fleeting moments."

Some of the issues I was well familiar with - SF refusing to get the Assembly going again, the hidden vote on SF's deputy leader etc. Some of them I was not as familiar with - e.g. the resentment in SF Northern Ireland towards its concentration on the South - and while I was aware of SF and expenses scandal, I wasn't aware that they had brazened it out while others fell on their swords.

A provocative article but one with many truths contained in it. In my opinion, this should be read for everyone, but I won't be surprised if the Irish media fail to pick up on it - it makes uncomfortable reading for all but a few.

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blanch152

Odhinn wrote: »

That'd be because its blatantly untrue. If you want to talk about things the media don't chase, you might get back to me on my earlier post in the thread.

We could have a separate thread on historical issues the media doesn’t chase, and that would be a long list that you wouldn’t necessarily be happy with, but the issues in the article in the OP are contemporary not historical, so I will leave those historical issues for such a thread.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

We could have a separate thread on historical issues the media doesn’t chase, and that would be a long list that you wouldn’t necessarily be happy with, but the issues in the article in the OP are contemporary not historical, so I will leave those historical issues for such a thread.

The minute the author calls the DUP, 'pantomime villains' any reader with a smidgen of interpretive skills of their own would know what the agenda is.

Because they aren't 'pantomime' anything, they are a very real threat to the stability of Ireland because of their Brexit stance.

SF are as liable for criticism and scrutiny as any other party, but the 'fact' is they get far more of it than most, if not all parties.

JohnnyFlash

SF aren’t like other parties, they don’t operate like other parties, and their supporters don’t think like supporters of other parties.

The old ‘Southern Project’ has really ground to a halt for them though. I’d say there’s a lot of soul searching going on. They might start to realise that shouting isn’t leadership.

tipptom

blanch152 wrote: »

Desperate response from desperate poster, is that all you can come up with?

Clikbait post from Slugger o Toole the best you can some up with?
He knew the grade of intelligence he was targeting to post it around for him.

Even the most anti SF people I know will tell you that the Irish media are biased against SF as a party especially running up to elections to try to stymie SF in democratic elections, but they will openly admit they have no problem with that as they say SF should be stopped by any means possible.

SF thought they had agreement signed and in place with the DUP to have the assembly up and running months agp but this was vetoed when the DUP had a meeting with their loyalist cells and the agreement was torn up.

The same Loyalists who were aided by the British state to murder Pat Finucane and who now are hanging banners around North Belfast denigrating the Finnucans and glorifying in the murder.

I for one thought SF were wrong to agree go back in to the assembly with a party who are corrupt,sectarian,homophobic,racist and will not pass any agreements that they have signed up to in the GFA if it involves equality for Nationalists and who need to get permission before they do anything from the OO and loyalist terror groups.

As for SF electing leaders,why would they give a hostile press any internal numbers and what business is it of theirs or yours so save your pathetic outrage for Slugger o Toole for making you look even more foolish.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The minute the author calls the DUP, 'pantomime villains' any reader with a smidgen of interpretive skills of their own would know what the agenda is.

Because they aren't 'pantomime' anything, they are a very real threat to the stability of Ireland because of their Brexit stance.

SF are as liable for criticism and scrutiny as any other party, but the 'fact' is they get far more of it than most, if not all parties.

I don’t have any time for the DUP, so countering with themmums are worse doesn’t hold any water. Look to your own Francie.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

I don’t have any time for the DUP, so countering with themmums are worse doesn’t hold any water. Look to your own Francie.

You fell for a stunt to take the spotlight off the DUP blanch. Willingly or knowingly.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Address the issues in the link, don't just default to personal insults.

The article lists some of the many things wrong with Sinn Fein, and comments on the failure of the media to adequately report them. Address the issues.

It is easy to see how the wagons are circling, how the non-SF voting posters are out defending SF, how the defensive attitude kicks in, how the personal insults kick in, yet not one of the points in the article are rebutted.

I've responded to the op quite clearly. It makes little sense and I gave it a possibility of being true in the lead up to the GFA.
Where do you get all your SF material about inter party bullying and the like? You got an informer or did you see it in the media?
It's a biased fanciful incorrect opinion piece, IMO.

blanch152 wrote: »

Not one single poster has addressed in detail any of the issues raised in the article.

You keep repeating that. Many of us have and you choose to ignore it or belittle it because it's not what you want to hear.

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

SF aren’t like other parties, they don’t operate like other parties, and their supporters don’t think like supporters of other parties.

The old ‘Southern Project’ has really ground to a halt for them though. I’d say there’s a lot of soul searching going on. They might start to realise that shouting isn’t leadership.

You assume. I know SF voters, Labour voters, Indie voters, academics and working class. Completely different demographics. Granted no savvy working class person would touch FG, but there are a lot of wannabe working class sell outs around. The type grew up in social housing, bought it and now look down on those in need of it.

They didn't create the partition, SF are an all Ireland project, do you know nothing about them? :rolleyes:

maccored

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Blanch the entire premise of the piece is not just flawed it completely untrue.

it said bad things about sf - thats enough for blanch152 to post it.

maccored

sabat wrote: »

Fantastic response. I personally know of two IRA owned businesses in Dublin that were running long before the ceasefire and continue to operate today. Do you think I'm holding my potential heads of government to too high a standard to question their connections to what is- without the veneer of "freedom fighters"- a mafia?

about time you reported them. unless its makeyuppy story time on boards (again)

sabat

maccored wrote: »

about time you reported them. unless its makeyuppy story time on boards (again)

The gardaí are well aware of who they are-it was a tacit part of the peace process that they were allowed keep all of their money and businesses. If you dispute this, please link to any article where the (official/provisional) IRA surrendered or had seized property, businesses or money post 1997.
Take a walk southwards on Pearse St between Sandwith St and the canal and you'll pass one of them-see if you can guess which one it is.

FrancieBrady

sabat wrote: »

The gardaí are well aware of who they are-it was a tacit part of the peace process that they were allowed keep all of their money and businesses. If you dispute this, please link to any article where the (official/provisional) IRA surrendered or had seized property, businesses or money post 1997.
Take a walk southwards on Pearse St between Sandwith St and the canal and you'll pass one of them-see if you can guess which one it is.

Thats what you call evidence? Jumping to conclusions walking past shops? OK

James Brown

sabat wrote: »

The gardaí are well aware of who they are-it was a tacit part of the peace process that they were allowed keep all of their money and businesses. If you dispute this, please link to any article where the (official/provisional) IRA surrendered or had seized property, businesses or money post 1997.
Take a walk southwards on Pearse St between Sandwith St and the canal and you'll pass one of them-see if you can guess which one it is.

So these businesses are engaging in criminal activity, (to likely prop up nefarious IRA activities) and the government, Garda are okay with it because something something the peace process? Tell your local TD, that's a disgrace....if true.

sabat

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Thats what you call evidence? Jumping to conclusions walking past shops? OK

I've laid it out plainly and factually. If you ever have a chance to ask a senior garda informally or any older Dublin business owner involved in pubs, transport or smaller, mainly cash firms, they will confirm this. If you're going to reply with with some non-sequitur or accusation of dishonesty, don't bother. You still haven't told us who decided Mary Lou was Gerry Adams' replacement btw.

FrancieBrady

sabat wrote: »

I've laid it out plainly and factually. If you ever have a chance to ask a senior garda informally or any older Dublin business owner involved in pubs, transport or smaller, mainly cash firms, they will confirm this. If you're going to reply with with some non-sequitur or accusation of dishonesty, don't bother. You still haven't told us who decided Mary Lou was Gerry Adams' replacement btw.

So your accusation here without any back up is that senior gardai are not closing criminal operations?
HAVE YOU done anything about this?

*far as I can see the membership of SF voted for ML after each cumann got the oppurtunity to nominate a candidate. As a member of SF posted here in a detailed post about the process at the time. Again, if you know different do post the info with backup.

sabat

Matt Barrett wrote: »

So these businesses are engaging in criminal activity, (to likely prop up nefarious IRA activities) and the government, Garda are okay with it because something something the peace process? Tell your local TD, that's a disgrace....if true.

No. They're there to pay "pensions" etc. and I assume operate largely as normal with perhaps some elements of money laundering from residual illegal activities such as cigarette and fuel smuggling. Ask anyone from Derry, Dundalk, Newry or Crossmaglen if there are IRA connected businesses in their area and the answer will be "well duh, obviously."

James Brown

sabat wrote: »

No. They're there to pay "pensions" etc. and I assume operate largely as normal with perhaps some elements of money laundering from residual illegal activities such as cigarette and fuel smuggling. Ask anyone from Derry, Dundalk, Newry or Crossmaglen if there are IRA connected businesses in their area and the answer will be "well duh, obviously."

They are the worst criminals ever, as you know the intricate details. Like the OP, I don't believe this to be true. Do I believe we have criminals previously affiliated with the IRA, yes I do.
As regards illegal activities, I use to work with a farmer, he would get texts from other farmers warning about dipping, the Garda dipping petrol for the colouring. I also know a few shady inner city, (Dublin) characters who would be involved in procuring black market items such a cigarettes. Not a 'RA man among them. Maybe the Garda just can't catch them all? Or they just let ex-IRA lads do what they like

Maybe some of the Garda lads on here might let us in on this policy?

An Claidheamh

blanch152 wrote: »

https://thecritic.co.uk/a-crooked-eye/?fbclid=IwAR1zgvJNmRkUk-Ovux8hKXyzYktT3oO7uhksHvE6ApvFgo8dgVSvV3V9zks

A very interesting article on a British website by Slugger O'Toole which addresses the issue of media reluctance to criticise Sinn Fein. The kernel of the argument seems to be as follows:

"The presumption seems to be that in order for the peace settlement to work, everyone else (but especially unionist politicians) must be scrutinised to within an inch of their lives. Whereas Sinn Féin is too dark and deep a hole for any journalist to contemplate looking into for more than a few fleeting moments."

Some of the issues I was well familiar with - SF refusing to get the Assembly going again, the hidden vote on SF's deputy leader etc. Some of them I was not as familiar with - e.g. the resentment in SF Northern Ireland towards its concentration on the South - and while I was aware of SF and expenses scandal, I wasn't aware that they had brazened it out while others fell on their swords.

A provocative article but one with many truths contained in it. In my opinion, this should be read for everyone, but I won't be surprised if the Irish media fail to pick up on it - it makes uncomfortable reading for all but a few.

There have actually been remarks by unionist/loyalists politicians about exterminating the Irish race which have not even been picked up by the Irish media. Then there is their supporting of anti-Irish terrorism, Sectarianism, anti-Gay, anti-Immigrants.

The Irish media supported the Termination of Pregnancy and Same Sex marriage bills, now they want Sinn Féin to go into power with Protestant undemocratic bigots to stop it in the North.

FF/FG, RTÉ and Tony O'Reilly aren't in charge anymore.

There is enough Blueshirt Youth nonsense on Boards.

Get over Sinn Féin.

FrancieBrady

sabat wrote: »

No. They're there to pay "pensions" etc. and I assume operate largely as normal with perhaps some elements of money laundering from residual illegal activities such as cigarette and fuel smuggling. Ask anyone from Derry, Dundalk, Newry or Crossmaglen if there are IRA connected businesses in their area and the answer will be "well duh, obviously."

That's just a lazy cliche and we've heard it many times up here around the Quinn affair.

goose2005

blanch152 wrote: »

I think you underestimate the strength of continuing patterns and their resilience. You may well be correct that it originated at the time of the peace process and for good reasons, but it is the signs of its persistence into the presence that the author is questioning.

For example, look at the detail available on the Fine Gael leadership election, how the three electoral colleges were broken down:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Fine_Gael_leadership_election

Contrast that with the hidden process in Sinn Fein for the election of the deputy leader and the absolute secrecy around it while the boys in Belfast decided over cards and a few whiskeys who should get the job.

Yet, as Fealty points out, there has only been limited muted criticism of Sinn Fein for that.

Most political parties elected their leaders in smoke-filled rooms in the back of pubs until very recently. Cowen, Ahern, Bruton were all elected unopposed.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So your accusation here without any back up is that senior gardai are not closing criminal operations?
HAVE YOU done anything about this?

*far as I can see the membership of SF voted for ML after each cumann got the oppurtunity to nominate a candidate. As a member of SF posted here in a detailed post about the process at the time. Again, if you know different do post the info with backup.

I’ve no doubt you are correct about the SF election, sure they had millions of precedents, elections in the USSR and China were like that for decades, in fact, I think North Korea run elections like that as well.

blanch152

goose2005 wrote: »

Most political parties elected their leaders in smoke-filled rooms in the back of pubs until very recently. Cowen, Ahern, Bruton were all elected unopposed.

Rubbish, you don’t remember the FF and FG leadership elections of the 1980s

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's just a lazy cliche and we've heard it many times up here around the Quinn affair.

Yes, just reading today about Dublin Jimmy’s business partner, that good republican Slab Murphy, beloved of Gerry Adams.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, just reading today about Dublin Jimmy’s business partner, that good republican Slab Murphy, beloved of Gerry Adams.

Yes blanch, and they followed the money on Slab's case and it went no further than Slab's greasy pockets.

A prime example of your rumour and insinuations coming to a full stop.

blanch152

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They are the worst criminals ever, as you know the intricate details. Like the OP, I don't believe this to be true. Do I believe we have criminals previously affiliated with the IRA, yes I do.
As regards illegal activities, I use to work with a farmer, he would get texts from other farmers warning about dipping, the Garda dipping petrol for the colouring. I also know a few shady inner city, (Dublin) characters who would be involved in procuring black market items such a cigarettes. Not a 'RA man among them. Maybe the Garda just can't catch them all? Or they just let ex-IRA lads do what they like Maybe some of the Garda lads on here might let us in on this policy?

Yes, Matt, all the IRA lads retired and got good jobs in the civil service and the banks. Not a single one of them built on their terrorist activity to build criminal empires.

Oh, by the way, Frozen 2, another fairy tale is opening soon in cinemas.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes blanch, and they followed the money on Slab's case and it went no further than Slab's greasy pockets.

A prime example of your rumour and insinuations coming to a full stop.

So you disagree with the great Gerry, and you conclude that poor Slab was just another ordinary criminal.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

So you disagree with the great Gerry, and you conclude that poor Slab was just another ordinary criminal.

I don't know if he was a good republican or not back in the day, but many people fall off the wagon and get into all sorts of criminality and fraud. Countless examples in every part of life, business, politics etc.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, Matt, all the IRA lads retired and got good jobs in the civil service and the banks. Not a single one of them built on their terrorist activity to build criminal empires.

Oh, by the way, Frozen 2, another fairy tale is opening soon in cinemas.

What you and others are presenting here is quite serious inaction by the Gardai. If they are running criminal empires, that's what they are - criminals.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What you and others are presenting here is quite serious inaction by the Gardai. If they are running criminal empires, that's what they are - criminals.

Well, yes the Gardai are struggling, but when those criminals have the tacit support of the third largest party in the State, as well as the peace process dividend, it is difficult for the Gardai.

Also, as you well understand, criminal conviction requires guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, civil action requires the balance of probability, but the rest of us just need to use our critical faculties and assess the evidence before us, so I won't change a thing about my posts.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't know if he was a good republican or not back in the day, but many people fall off the wagon and get into all sorts of criminality and fraud. Countless examples in every part of life, business, politics etc.

So you disagree with Gerry and Mary's description of him as a good republican.