Why aren't you a vegan!?

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I like to see the science behind the 2500L/quarter pounder. A bovine producing 300kgs of beef would make 2640 quarter pounder s so is accountable for over 6 million litres when you discount for the bread and salad in the burger.

Where is the 6 million litres used up. In Ireland as we use grass based system for most of an animal life.most water will be recycled back into the ground. While maybe in hot arid countries there is an issue with water in beef production it is not an issue in Ireland.

It is probably as climate friendly to eat beef as white meat here and as climate friendy as importing exotic fruit and veg or importing artificial meat replacement foods

It's not just the water they drink, but also the water used up in the massive amounts of food they eat.

It's not enough to just argue that because we're in Ireland, we should be OK doing X, Y or Z. Ireland creates the 3rd highest amount of carbon emissions in Europe per capita, and we export a hell of a lot of beef. We're contributing to the global emissions crisis as much as anyone else, and more than most.

Bass Reeves

IrishKev wrote: »

You're right, avocados take a lot of airmiles to get here. Buying in season, local, whole plant based foods is the best way to go.

You could be right about the lettuce leaf consumption, but there's no denying that beef is the big consumer of the world's resources in that graphic.

We are so used so what the 'natural order of the food chain' is that anything else seems foreign to us.

What other species out there cooks and eats the eggs of another animal? Or drinks the milk of another animal? If I saw a horse sucking a cow's tit it would blow my mind.

As I said, animals are already taking supplements, which like you pointed out, are not made 'naturally'. So the source of which you get your B12 is pretty much irrelevant as they're both coming from the same place essentially.

I heard a doctor that specializes in allergies on the radio recently. He made a point that Human being developed so fast from when they started to farm because of dairy produce. People who has no intolerance to lactose out bred those that had.

We developed to a higher platform than other animals. You could ask the same question regarding animals I know of no other animal that cooks there vegetables or other plant based products. There are three main animal types, herbivore, omnivore and carnivores. We are omivores like all other primates.

Sir Guy who smiles

IrishKev wrote: »

Cats and dogs take what it given to them, that's not much of an argument really.

They can't milk cows, they lack opposable thumbs.

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

The only milk cats and dogs should drink is from their mother. Cow's milk is not good for them.

Actually for a kitten its no harm at all, science has proven that, Kittens can break down the lactose.

IrishKev wrote: »

The World Health Organisation have categorised processed meats as a Type 1 carcinogenic, along with tobacco and plutonium.

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/general-info/known-and-probable-human-carcinogens.html

Forks Over Knives is a very informative documentary, created by the same guys who wrote The China Study book. Have a read/watch, they're eye opening.

Anything process has a great chance of causing cancer, there is plenty of unhealthy process vegan food also, ie frozen fake chicken!!!(massive amount of salt in it). Coconut yogurt is not great for you,

I'm not a vegan because meat tastes GooooooD.

average_runner wrote: »

Well you won't see any other species cooking because they aren't that advance, but you will see plenty of species eating other eggs

As far I know, i dont suck milk off a cow, but i do drink milk same as cat/dog does.

Cats and dogs take what it given to them, that's not much of an argument really.

Also, cows only produce milk when they give birth to a calf. It's cow breast milk, made for a calf to drink in order to grow. The part where humans come along and drink it is pretty crazy when you actually think about it.

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I like to see the science behind the 2500L/quarter pounder. A bovine producing 300kgs of beef would make 2640 quarter pounder s so is accountable for over 6 million litres when you discount for the bread and salad in the burger.

Where is the 6 million litres used up. In Ireland as we use grass based system for most of an animal life.most water will be recycled back into the ground. While maybe in hot arid countries there is an issue with water in beef production it is not an issue in Ireland.

It is probably as climate friendly to eat beef as white meat here and as climate friendy as importing exotic fruit and veg or importing artificial meat replacement foods

The figures are nonsense.

Unearthly wrote: »

There is more to calculating an animals intelligence than these 2 things. Dogs sniff better than us so are we level in intelligence?

Some dogs are smarter than some people.

Bass Reeves

IrishKev wrote: »

Not true. One beef burger takes 2500 litres of water to make.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/this-is-how-much-water-is-in-your-burger/

Also, grass fed cows actually produce 20% more methane than grain fed. This is offset by the more positive impact grazing has, however it's much of a muchness.

I like to see the science behind the 2500L/quarter pounder. A bovine producing 300kgs of beef would make 2640 quarter pounder s so is accountable for over 6 million litres when you discount for the bread and salad in the burger.

Where is the 6 million litres used up. In Ireland as we use grass based system for most of an animal life.most water will be recycled back into the ground. While maybe in hot arid countries there is an issue with water in beef production it is not an issue in Ireland.

It is probably as climate friendly to eat beef as white meat here and as climate friendy as importing exotic fruit and veg or importing artificial meat replacement foods

Deebles McBeebles

average_runner wrote: »

As far I know, i dont suck milk off a cow, but i do drink milk same as cat/dog does.

The only milk cats and dogs should drink is from their mother. Cow's milk is not good for them.

average_runner wrote: »

I don't mind the vegan diet, do it some days myself, but alot of the posts in the thread are hinting that vegan is good and meat diet isn't.

The World Health Organisation have categorised processed meats as a Type 1 carcinogenic, along with tobacco and plutonium.

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/general-info/known-and-probable-human-carcinogens.html

Forks Over Knives is a very informative documentary, created by the same guys who wrote The China Study book. Have a read/watch, they're eye opening.

IrishKev wrote: »

You're right, avocados take a lot of airmiles to get here. Buying in season, local, whole plant based foods is the best way to go.

You could be right about the lettuce leaf consumption, but there's no denying that beef is the big consumer of the world's resources in that graphic.

We are so used so what the 'natural order of the food chain' is that anything else seems foreign to us.

What other species out there cooks and eats the eggs of another animal? Or drinks the milk of another animal? If I saw a horse sucking a cow's tit it would blow my mind.

As I said, animals are already taking supplements, which like you pointed out, are not made 'naturally'. So the source of which you get your B12 is pretty much irrelevant as they're both coming from the same place essentially.

Well you won't see any other species cooking because they aren't that advance, but you will see plenty of species eating other eggs

As far I know, i dont suck milk off a cow, but i do drink milk same as cat/dog does.

Unearthly

Rodin wrote: »

I don't see any snifferpigs or guidepigs on the go

There is more to calculating an animals intelligence than these 2 things. Dogs sniff better than us so are we level in intelligence?

jimgoose

Rodin wrote: »

I don't see any snifferpigs or guidepigs on the go

Not that it makes a blind bit of difference, but pigs are used for truffling in some parts of the world.

jimgoose wrote: »

Pigs are smarter than dogs. Neither are smarter than me, because I have a shotgun.

I don't see any snifferpigs or guidepigs on the go

average_runner wrote: »

How much is the carbon print to get avocado's, bananas, oranges etc to Ireland?

Also .7 litre of water for a lettuce leaf is bull, maybe try growing veg in an allotment during the summer and in the greenhouse during the winter

You're right, avocados take a lot of airmiles to get here. Buying in season, local, whole plant based foods is the best way to go.

You could be right about the lettuce leaf consumption, but there's no denying that beef is the big consumer of the world's resources in that graphic.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is some cognitive dissonance there claim to be pro nature and natural - go vegan.
Avoid eating meat/eggs/dairy which is natural.
Then have to take a lab made supplement as result - unnatural.

That is not 'skipping the middle man' that is messing with the natural order of the food chain in nature.
And creating an artificial situation so you can leave natures food chain.

We are so used so what the 'natural order of the food chain' is that anything else seems foreign to us.

What other species out there cooks and eats the eggs of another animal? Or drinks the milk of another animal? If I saw a horse sucking a cow's tit it would blow my mind.

As I said, animals are already taking supplements, which like you pointed out, are not made 'naturally'. So the source of which you get your B12 is pretty much irrelevant as they're both coming from the same place essentially.

jimgoose

Rodin wrote: »

Dogs are smarter than cows.

Pigs are smarter than dogs. Neither are smarter than me, because I have a shotgun.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cards on the table, I'm not a vegan.

That said, it's very hard to argue against the common vegan. After all, almost nobody argues that there is some positive benefit toward the infliction of suffering on animals.

Nobody would argue in favour of collecting dogs in the back of a truck, and sending them off for slaughter in some local abatoir. But that's precisely what happens with the other sentient animals.

The process is often brutal, but even if it were pain-free, the argument goes that animals shouldn't be killed in the same way we wouldn't recommend it for horses or dogs.

I can't really think of a valid argument against veganism. You'd think, then, that I would convert to veganism, but I haven't - and won't. It's a purely selfish endeavour, then, because I'm being hypocritical about how I would react if I saw dogs treated in the same way as farmed animals.

True, there are evolutionary reasons for eating meat. I think the argument now is that there are sufficient plant alternatives.

So, why aren't you a vegan?

Perhaps you have a valid position I, or others here, haven't thought of.

But thus far, I can't frame a case against it.

Dogs are smarter than cows.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

Are there any circumstances in which you would consume human meat?

I mean, imagine circumstances in which a human dies naturally, and its body is used for meat - would you be willing to eat the meat? In theory.

Of course, it's purely a hypothetical, but the idea is to tease out why we believe what we believe, and why we act out what we act out.

If animals are animals - and humans are animals - and we have no problem "eating animals", this question is probably worth asking.

I see from further on you actually want an answer to this one.

1: Pathogen source
2: Prion source

Outside of any other reason, these alone are enough.

jimgoose

IrishKev wrote: »

That's a myth mate - vegans need just one supplement - Vitamin B12. The reason for this is it's found in soil which animals should get into their diet when eating grass etc. In reality, most animals are grain fed so don't get B12 in their diets, so are given B12 in supplements. So the B12 you get from meat is literally from supplements. Vegans just skip the middleman...

Cattle in Ireland are Wintered on maize, mangles and some fortified factory stuff. For most of the year, they graze and get plenty natural B12.

IrishKev wrote: »

Not sure where you're coming from there. Discussion boards are for discussing - just because you don't agree with somebody that doesn't mean they're 'pushing their agenda' on you.

I don't mind the vegan diet, do it some days myself, but alot of the posts in the thread are hinting that vegan is good and meat diet isn't.

gormdubhgorm

IrishKev wrote: »

That's a myth mate - vegans need just one supplement - Vitamin B12. The reason for this is it's found in soil which animals should get into their diet when eating grass etc. In reality, most animals are grain fed so don't get B12 in their diets, so are given B12 in supplements. So the B12 you get from meat is literally from supplements. Vegans just skip the middleman.

That is some cognitive dissonance there claim to be pro nature and natural - go vegan.
Avoid eating meat/eggs/dairy which is natural.
Then have to take a lab made supplement as result - unnatural.

That is not 'skipping the middle man' that is messing with the natural order of the food chain in nature.
And creating an artificial situation so you can leave natures food chain.

IrishKev wrote: »

Not true. One beef burger takes 2500 litres of water to make.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/02/this-is-how-much-water-is-in-your-burger/

Also, grass fed cows actually produce 20% more methane than grain fed. This is offset by the more positive impact grazing has, however it's much of a muchness.

How much is the carbon print to get avocado's, bananas, oranges etc to Ireland?

Also .7 litre of water for a lettuce leaf is bull, maybe try growing veg in an allotment during the summer and in the greenhouse during the winter