nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Why aren't you a vegan!?

[Deleted User]

Cards on the table, I'm not a vegan.

That said, it's very hard to argue against the common vegan. After all, almost nobody argues that there is some positive benefit toward the infliction of suffering on animals.

Nobody would argue in favour of collecting dogs in the back of a truck, and sending them off for slaughter in some local abatoir. But that's precisely what happens with the other sentient animals.

The process is often brutal, but even if it were pain-free, the argument goes that animals shouldn't be killed in the same way we wouldn't recommend it for horses or dogs.

I can't really think of a valid argument against veganism. You'd think, then, that I would convert to veganism, but I haven't - and won't. It's a purely selfish endeavour, then, because I'm being hypocritical about how I would react if I saw dogs treated in the same way as farmed animals.

True, there are evolutionary reasons for eating meat. I think the argument now is that there are sufficient plant alternatives.

So, why aren't you a vegan?

Perhaps you have a valid position I, or others here, haven't thought of.

But thus far, I can't frame a case against it.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

AMKC

Because I like my, steak, lamb, chicken, pork and every other meet I eat and its good for me. Besides if we did not eat then there would be more animals on the planet then humans and they would take over lol.

ted1

whisky_galore wrote: »

You can keep your liquids, watery tasting shyte.

You dont love a bit of oat milk?

emaherx

endacl wrote: »

Horses, yes. Dogs and cats, no. Carnivores aren’t as tasty. Except for crocodile and shark.

Farming cats and dogs is very impractical, we'd have to raise more meat to feed them, probably meat which tastes better anyway.

dartboardio

I'm sure dogs and cats taste lovely, but in our side of the world it's somewhat absurd to eat them.

Doesn't mean we are hypocrites for eating chicken and being like 'eww' when someone eats dog.

Not that I know anyone that eats dog

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

You really want to go there?

https://www.peta.org/features/dairy-industry-cruelty/

Yes absaloutly, not the norm for a farm especially not here. And Peta? They slaughter more animals than anyone!

whisky_galore

ted1 wrote: »

White liquids

You can keep your liquids, watery tasting shyte.

[Deleted User]

endacl wrote: »

Horses, yes. Dogs and cats, no. Carnivores aren’t as tasty. Except for crocodile and shark.

Dog is actually
Same squid and octupus.

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

Define woodland. We dint have to many of them.

11 percent of the country is woodland.
10,000 years ago it was 0% (not even a blade of grass then). Our woodlands have grown and shrank many times in the period between then and now most notably when the British deforested us for commercial reasons during the industrial revolution. But sure blame the farmers it is mostly farmers who have increased the woodland here and continue to do so.

To answer your question Irish native deciduous trees sequester much less carbon than well managed grass land mostly because they are completely dormant for the winter, notice no leaves no green no photosynthesis. Which is completely unlike the Amazon.

Should also be noted the 11% forest cover here does not include our tree lined hedgerows which we have much more of compared to most countries.

Feisar

Can someone please draw a small circle around their home, about 5KM and explain how a meat free diet is sustainable from the produce of that area.

ted1

whisky_galore wrote: »

Neither are highly processed so-called "milks".

White liquids

whisky_galore

ted1 wrote: »

Drinking milk intended for young calves isn’t natural!!!

Neither are highly processed so-called "milks".

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

Absaloutly, we are so much kinder than nature too.

Warning graphic video
https://youtu.be/uVnDJMjNySg

You really want to go there?

https://www.peta.org/features/dairy-industry-cruelty/

endacl

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you be comfortable if dogs or horses or cats were farmed in accordance with the same methods, then, to add more diversity to our menus?

Horses, yes. Dogs and cats, no. Carnivores aren’t as tasty. Except for crocodile and shark.

emaherx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the consumption of meat is necessary, but not necessarily the maltreatment of animals? In other words, that animals could be treated and killed as "morally" as possible, whilst ensuring that the human being could still eat meat.

The Common Vegan would argue that the animal should not be killed in the first place. Not my view, but that's the argument that they would provide.

Absaloutly, we are so much kinder than nature too.

Warning graphic video
https://youtu.be/uVnDJMjNySg

dartboardio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Natural to the extent that it doesn't cause any pathology and, if anything, helps to prevent any form of pathology.

And given the length of time it has been used, this conclusion shouldn't be surprising.

The precise definition of "natural" is a very dangerous one.

It's the same word weaponised against homosexuality, amongst other things.

Thats very true, like the word normal!

I guess it's normal to me, that's what I meant

[Deleted User]

dartboardio wrote: »

Ok, it doesn't have to be scientifically natural, but what I mean is, it's natural, for most of us, all of us that aren't vegan anyway, most of the time.

Its the way millions were raised and that is okay!

Natural to the extent that it doesn't cause any pathology and, if anything, helps to prevent any form of pathology.

And given the length of time it has been used, this conclusion shouldn't be surprising.

The precise definition of "natural" is a very dangerous one.

It's the same word weaponised against homosexuality, amongst other things.

Using laptops isn't natural. Staying inside, working in offices, isn't natural. Eating pizza and beer isn't natural.

dartboardio

ted1 wrote: »

Drinking milk intended for young calves isn’t natural!!!

Ok, it doesn't have to be scientifically natural, but what I mean is, it's natural, for most of us, all of us that aren't vegan anyway, most of the time.

Its the way millions were raised and that is okay!

Everyone has an opinion, and that's the only difference I find between myself and a vegan, they think killing animals for food is wrong, and I dont. Simple. Just a matter of opinion

[Deleted User]

emaherx wrote: »

Animals don't need to be maltreated to be farmed for meat.

It is completely natural for some animals to be eaten and even nessacery in nature. But in nature the slaughtering is far from humane.

Are you suggesting that the consumption of meat is necessary, but not necessarily the maltreatment of animals? In other words, that animals could be treated and killed as "morally" as possible, whilst ensuring that the human being could still eat meat.

The Common Vegan would argue that the animal should not be killed in the first place. Not my view, but that's the argument that they would provide.

ted1

dartboardio wrote: »

As first poster said. Because I want to eat meat and dairy. Its normal to most of us, and all we know, and happy to not change that.

That doesn't make anyone evil, or a bad person.

Just another fad if you ask me. People seem to forget we are something of an animal, we are humans, this is natural.

Eating meat, and dairy, is the most natural thing to me, just like drinking, going to the toilet, or reproducing is.

Drinking milk intended for young calves isn’t natural!!!

emaherx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What about the weight of the moral question though?

For example, a century or two ago, the idea of "homosexuality" being a "morally acceptable" behavior would have been frowned upon, but because most people believed that and, at the time, the suppression of homosexuality ensued.

Here, it's the maltreatment of animals, often severely. Just because the vast majority of people are meat eaters doesn't make the practice a justifiable or good one, if you see what I mean.

So, in terms of this moral standpoint - yes, the majority are in favour of eating meat, but that surely wouldn't justify maltreatment of animals in the same way that the vast majority against homosexuality was justified many decades ago etc.

Many people are disgusted at "trophy hunting", yet spend the next hour eating a medium-rare steak?

Where's the consistency?

Animals don't need to be maltreated to be farmed for meat.

It is completely natural for some animals to be eaten and even nessacery in nature. But in nature the slaughtering is far from humane.

GooglePlus

Feisar wrote: »

Isn't it also proven the nutrient dense meat is the reason we developed into humans?

The need for a bigger brain allowed for us to have a larger brain, we evolved over time and out compete our smaller brained homo ancestors.

Give Sapiens a read, it's an in depth history of where we came from and very interesting.

I eat meat by the way and have no plans on stopping but if meat leads to brain growth then why is my accountant not a lion?

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

Managed grass lands can out perform our native woodland for carbon sequestering.

Define woodland. We dint have to many of them.

dartboardio

As first poster said. Because I want to eat meat and dairy. Its normal to most of us, and all we know, and happy to not change that.

That doesn't make anyone evil, or a bad person.

Just another fad if you ask me. People seem to forget we are something of an animal, we are humans, this is natural.

Eating meat, and dairy, is the most natural thing to me, just like drinking, going to the toilet, or reproducing is.

There are lots of good points that vegans mention, I'm sure it's great to be so compassionate about the cows feelings, but it's a bit of a 'treehugger' in my eyes.

I will raise my kids, as I was raised, fully balanced diet.

I dont want the natural cycle of life to change, and its not gonna happen either, despite how many oat milks or falafel burgers are consumed!

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

Methane lasts about a decade in the atmosphere compared to thousands of years for CO2. No deforestation for grazing cows in Ireland infact Ireland's forest has grown from 1% to 11% in the past century with much more planned. Water requirements again em errr rain..... think about it not as bad as importing plant based foods from heavily irregated foreign countries.

All also well documented with lots of studies and articles, often in the same UN documents that get misquoted regularly.

We are the least forested country in Europe!! Deforestation has already happened. Our forests are mainly pine which leads to issues with our lakes and rivers

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

The grass land would be forests if they weren’t cleared for cattle or cattle feed.

Managed grass lands can out perform our native woodland for carbon sequestering.

Empty_Space

Finley Old Zeal wrote: »

Ask a vegan if they have a puppy.

Then ask them if they think it's ok to take it from its mother just so they can have a pet.

It would be an interesting conversation.

Ask them if they want a cow genecide. They want to make cows extinct.

Not to mention the pigs.

uck51js9zml2yt

Ask a vegan if they have a puppy.

Then ask them if they think it's ok to take it from its mother just so they can have a pet.

It would be an interesting conversation.

Empty_Space

Empty_Space wrote: »

Im not vegan because I go out into the Irish wilderness. Here, I hunt, kill and eat wild Buffalo and Bears.
Often I am gone for days but I feed my whole village.

Plus by eating animals I can take on some of their characteristics.

ted1

diceyreilly wrote: »

I don’t think I’ve ever even had a vegan meal. And never will.

Pretty close minded. Bean chilli, vegetarian curry lots of full flavour foods that leave you full

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

Lots of articles and studies to support it.

Big tickets are the methane which is 23 times more damaging than CO2, deforestation for grazing cows and growing animal feed, water requirements

Methane lasts about a decade in the atmosphere compared to thousands of years for CO2. No deforestation for grazing cows in Ireland infact Ireland's forest has grown from 1% to 11% in the past century with much more planned. Water requirements again em errr rain..... think about it not as bad as importing plant based foods from heavily irregated foreign countries.

All also well documented with lots of studies and articles, often in the same UN documents that get misquoted regularly.