nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Why aren't you a vegan!?

[Deleted User]

Cards on the table, I'm not a vegan.

That said, it's very hard to argue against the common vegan. After all, almost nobody argues that there is some positive benefit toward the infliction of suffering on animals.

Nobody would argue in favour of collecting dogs in the back of a truck, and sending them off for slaughter in some local abatoir. But that's precisely what happens with the other sentient animals.

The process is often brutal, but even if it were pain-free, the argument goes that animals shouldn't be killed in the same way we wouldn't recommend it for horses or dogs.

I can't really think of a valid argument against veganism. You'd think, then, that I would convert to veganism, but I haven't - and won't. It's a purely selfish endeavour, then, because I'm being hypocritical about how I would react if I saw dogs treated in the same way as farmed animals.

True, there are evolutionary reasons for eating meat. I think the argument now is that there are sufficient plant alternatives.

So, why aren't you a vegan?

Perhaps you have a valid position I, or others here, haven't thought of.

But thus far, I can't frame a case against it.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

ted1

dartboardio wrote: »

As first poster said. Because I want to eat meat and dairy. Its normal to most of us, and all we know, and happy to not change that.

That doesn't make anyone evil, or a bad person.

Just another fad if you ask me. People seem to forget we are something of an animal, we are humans, this is natural.

Eating meat, and dairy, is the most natural thing to me, just like drinking, going to the toilet, or reproducing is.

Drinking milk intended for young calves isn’t natural!!!

[Deleted User]

emaherx wrote: »

Animals don't need to be maltreated to be farmed for meat.

It is completely natural for some animals to be eaten and even nessacery in nature. But in nature the slaughtering is far from humane.

Are you suggesting that the consumption of meat is necessary, but not necessarily the maltreatment of animals? In other words, that animals could be treated and killed as "morally" as possible, whilst ensuring that the human being could still eat meat.

The Common Vegan would argue that the animal should not be killed in the first place. Not my view, but that's the argument that they would provide.

dartboardio

ted1 wrote: »

Drinking milk intended for young calves isn’t natural!!!

Ok, it doesn't have to be scientifically natural, but what I mean is, it's natural, for most of us, all of us that aren't vegan anyway, most of the time.

Its the way millions were raised and that is okay!

Everyone has an opinion, and that's the only difference I find between myself and a vegan, they think killing animals for food is wrong, and I dont. Simple. Just a matter of opinion

[Deleted User]

dartboardio wrote: »

Ok, it doesn't have to be scientifically natural, but what I mean is, it's natural, for most of us, all of us that aren't vegan anyway, most of the time.

Its the way millions were raised and that is okay!

Natural to the extent that it doesn't cause any pathology and, if anything, helps to prevent any form of pathology.

And given the length of time it has been used, this conclusion shouldn't be surprising.

The precise definition of "natural" is a very dangerous one.

It's the same word weaponised against homosexuality, amongst other things.

Using laptops isn't natural. Staying inside, working in offices, isn't natural. Eating pizza and beer isn't natural.

dartboardio

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Natural to the extent that it doesn't cause any pathology and, if anything, helps to prevent any form of pathology.

And given the length of time it has been used, this conclusion shouldn't be surprising.

The precise definition of "natural" is a very dangerous one.

It's the same word weaponised against homosexuality, amongst other things.

Thats very true, like the word normal!

I guess it's normal to me, that's what I meant

emaherx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you suggesting that the consumption of meat is necessary, but not necessarily the maltreatment of animals? In other words, that animals could be treated and killed as "morally" as possible, whilst ensuring that the human being could still eat meat.

The Common Vegan would argue that the animal should not be killed in the first place. Not my view, but that's the argument that they would provide.

Absaloutly, we are so much kinder than nature too.

Warning graphic video
https://youtu.be/uVnDJMjNySg

endacl

Deleted User wrote: »

Would you be comfortable if dogs or horses or cats were farmed in accordance with the same methods, then, to add more diversity to our menus?

Horses, yes. Dogs and cats, no. Carnivores aren’t as tasty. Except for crocodile and shark.

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

Absaloutly, we are so much kinder than nature too.

Warning graphic video
https://youtu.be/uVnDJMjNySg

You really want to go there?

https://www.peta.org/features/dairy-industry-cruelty/

whisky_galore

ted1 wrote: »

Drinking milk intended for young calves isn’t natural!!!

Neither are highly processed so-called "milks".

ted1

whisky_galore wrote: »

Neither are highly processed so-called "milks".

White liquids

Feisar

Can someone please draw a small circle around their home, about 5KM and explain how a meat free diet is sustainable from the produce of that area.

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

Define woodland. We dint have to many of them.

11 percent of the country is woodland.
10,000 years ago it was 0% (not even a blade of grass then). Our woodlands have grown and shrank many times in the period between then and now most notably when the British deforested us for commercial reasons during the industrial revolution. But sure blame the farmers it is mostly farmers who have increased the woodland here and continue to do so.

To answer your question Irish native deciduous trees sequester much less carbon than well managed grass land mostly because they are completely dormant for the winter, notice no leaves no green no photosynthesis. Which is completely unlike the Amazon.

Should also be noted the 11% forest cover here does not include our tree lined hedgerows which we have much more of compared to most countries.

[Deleted User]

endacl wrote: »

Horses, yes. Dogs and cats, no. Carnivores aren’t as tasty. Except for crocodile and shark.

Dog is actually
Same squid and octupus.

whisky_galore

ted1 wrote: »

White liquids

You can keep your liquids, watery tasting shyte.

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

You really want to go there?

https://www.peta.org/features/dairy-industry-cruelty/

Yes absaloutly, not the norm for a farm especially not here. And Peta? They slaughter more animals than anyone!

dartboardio

I'm sure dogs and cats taste lovely, but in our side of the world it's somewhat absurd to eat them.

Doesn't mean we are hypocrites for eating chicken and being like 'eww' when someone eats dog.

Not that I know anyone that eats dog

emaherx

endacl wrote: »

Horses, yes. Dogs and cats, no. Carnivores aren’t as tasty. Except for crocodile and shark.

Farming cats and dogs is very impractical, we'd have to raise more meat to feed them, probably meat which tastes better anyway.

ted1

whisky_galore wrote: »

You can keep your liquids, watery tasting shyte.

You dont love a bit of oat milk?

AMKC

Because I like my, steak, lamb, chicken, pork and every other meet I eat and its good for me. Besides if we did not eat then there would be more animals on the planet then humans and they would take over lol.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Some nutrients are far more bioavailable via meat. Iron, for example.

I have chronic anaemia and while I can take or leave meat there's no way I could exclude it. Its easier to get what I need by including meat in my diet on top of the iron and b12 supplements.

Plus eggs and cheese are just delicious.

emaherx

AMKC wrote: »

Because I like my, steak, lamb, chicken, pork and every other meet I eat and its good for me. Besides if we did not eat then there would be more animals on the planet then humans and they would take over lol.

There are more animals on the planet than humans, so you'd better eat up.

[Deleted User]

I'd say mostly because it's inconvenient. I started eating more vegan food in the last year because of a good buffet and a few good delivery options that people started talking about. But they're only in one part of the city, so I just eat what's available locally. When I'm not working, I eat more vegan or vegetarian stuff.

The other main reason is the local cuisine. I live in Asia, and it's not a vegetarian or vegan paradise here. My favourite dishes are almost all Vietnamese and that means meat. I think it's easier to change to 100% vegan if you're staying within your general daily type of food, and the same restaurants etc., or you mostly cook at home, rather than someone like me ditching one of my main connections to the country I'm living in; eating local.

Finally, I'm good to the environment anyway. I rarely fly. I spend under $5 a week on petrol for my 125cc bike. I don't have kids. I buy pretty much everything locally. Where I live has carbon emissions per capita of around a third of Ireland, and Ireland is around half the US's. I don't have any guilt or feeling that I should do better. I eat the vegan food I do now because it's actually really tasty and it's easy on the stomach. That's it. It's not because of morals at all.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd say mostly because it's inconvenient. I started eating more vegan food in the last year because of a good buffet and a few good delivery options that people started talking about. But they're only in one part of the city, so I just eat what's available locally. When I'm not working, I eat more vegan or vegetarian stuff.

The other main reason is the local cuisine. I live in Asia, and it's not a vegetarian or vegan paradise here. My favourite dishes are almost all Vietnamese and that means meat. I think it's easier to change to 100% vegan if you're staying within your general daily type of food, and the same restaurants etc., or you mostly cook at home, rather than someone like me ditching one of my main connections to the country I'm living in; eating local.

Finally, I'm good to the environment anyway. I rarely fly. I spend under $5 a week on petrol for my 125cc bike. I don't have kids. I buy pretty much everything locally. Where I live has carbon emissions per capita of around a third of Ireland, and Ireland is around half the US's. I don't have any guilt or feeling that I should do better. I eat the vegan food I do now because it's actually really tasty and it's easy on the stomach. That's it.

That seems more like an economic argument.

Which is legitimate...but what about the Moral Argument?

madmaggie

I have a small bit of land which is unsuitable for arable use, but good grazing. My neighbour grazes his cattle here from March to October. They have the run of the place, plenty of spring water, and stroll about or lie in the sunshine (whenever there is sunshine!) They are very contented animals. Seeing at first hand how beef cattle live, I have no qualms about eating meat.

[Deleted User]

madmaggie wrote: »

I have a small bit of land which is unsuitable for arable use, but good grazing. My neighbour grazes his cattle here from March to October. They have the run of the place, plenty of spring water, and stroll about or lie in the sunshine (whenever there is sunshine!) They are very contented animals. Seeing at first hand how beef cattle live, I have no qualms about eating meat.

Are there any circumstances in which you would consume human meat?

I mean, imagine circumstances in which a human dies naturally, and its body is used for meat - would you be willing to eat the meat? In theory.

Of course, it's purely a hypothetical, but the idea is to tease out why we believe what we believe, and why we act out what we act out.

If animals are animals - and humans are animals - and we have no problem "eating animals", this question is probably worth asking.

Xcellor

screamer wrote: »

Life’s too short and can’t be arsed

It's even shorter for the animal that ends up on your plate for nothing more than temporary taste pleasure.

freshpopcorn

I like meat and I grew up on a farm and I know a bit about where it comes from.

A lot of those videos that appear to convert people are generally over the top. Certain people are just a tad squeamish and will turn vegan when they are a teenager because they work in a factory and all they see is packaging and labeling but for some reason it turns them.

fritzelly

ted1 wrote: »

Google will help you.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/time.com/5648082/un-climate-report-less-meat/%3famp=true

Yeah some random nobody publishes some pseudo sciency stuff he made up to justify his claim - anyone can publish a paper to feed their ego

https://climatefeedback.org/evaluation/guardian-story-on-climate-impacts-of-diet-gets-mixed-reviews-from-scientists-damian-carrington/

Ace Attorney

Nothing wrong with being either a carnivore or herbivore. No side owes the other anything. Its the people that push conversion on other people is the issue. Choose to be what you want and leave it.

endacl

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Just had the new "meatless farm co" sausages from Dunnes this evening, they were great and gluten free if you want to give those a whirl.

All the meat i eat is gluten free. Not that there’s anything wrong with gluten, of course...