nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Why aren't you a vegan!?

[Deleted User]

Cards on the table, I'm not a vegan.

That said, it's very hard to argue against the common vegan. After all, almost nobody argues that there is some positive benefit toward the infliction of suffering on animals.

Nobody would argue in favour of collecting dogs in the back of a truck, and sending them off for slaughter in some local abatoir. But that's precisely what happens with the other sentient animals.

The process is often brutal, but even if it were pain-free, the argument goes that animals shouldn't be killed in the same way we wouldn't recommend it for horses or dogs.

I can't really think of a valid argument against veganism. You'd think, then, that I would convert to veganism, but I haven't - and won't. It's a purely selfish endeavour, then, because I'm being hypocritical about how I would react if I saw dogs treated in the same way as farmed animals.

True, there are evolutionary reasons for eating meat. I think the argument now is that there are sufficient plant alternatives.

So, why aren't you a vegan?

Perhaps you have a valid position I, or others here, haven't thought of.

But thus far, I can't frame a case against it.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

Stopped eating red meat about two months ago. Seen the burning of the rain forest to make room for Cattle was to much to take.
Tried vegan but to hard. I may transition fully in a few months.

How does the burning of the rain forest relate to eating red meat here?

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

How does the burning of the rain forest relate to eating red meat here?

Because they rain forest was burnt deliberately so as to clear land to raise cattle.

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

Because they rain forest was burnt deliberately so as to clear land to raise cattle.

But most beef sold here is raised here. Rainforest is also being cleared to grow ingredients found in vegan/vegetarian food.

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

But most beef sold here is raised here. Rainforest is also being cleared to grow ingredients found in vegan/vegetarian food.

The water and food required to produce a kg of beef is many times greater than if we ate the equivalent in plant based diet

Eating beef is bad for the planet, that’s why I stopped.

Unearthly

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Vitamin B12 also. My sister in law is vegan and a pure melter.

As a vegan myself I've more b12 than the recommended amount. Loads of foods fortified with it. It's not an issue

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

The water and food required to produce a kg of beef is many times greater than if we ate the equivalent in plant based diet

Eating beef is bad for the planet, that’s why I stopped.

The water requirements? Again this is Ireland water needed to raise beef/dairy cattle has a lower environmental impact compared to growing almonds in California. Plant based does not nessacerilly mean better for the environment. Especially when the water statistics quoted for beef often include the rain which made the grass grow.

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

Plant based does not nessacerilly mean better for the environment.

If you look at just the methane output from a cow , yeah plant based in better.

bfa1509

ted1 wrote: »

Eating beef is bad for the planet

I've heard this line so many times in the last year but it never fails to astonish me.

I would be very interested in reading any scientific article that backs this up.

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

If you look at just the methane output from a cow , yeah plant based in better.

If you compare it to rice? Not so much.

Also carbon sequestered by grass land gets completely ignored while carbon lost from ploughing also gets conveniently forgotten about.

ted1

bfa1509 wrote: »

I've heard this line so many times in the last year but it never fails to astonish me.

I would be very interested in reading any scientific article that backs this up.

Lots of articles and studies to support it.

Big tickets are the methane which is 23 times more damaging than CO2, deforestation for grazing cows and growing animal feed, water requirements

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

If you compare it to rice? Not so much.

Also carbon sequestered by grass land gets completely ignored while carbon lost from ploughing also gets conveniently forgotten about.

The grass land would be forests if they weren’t cleared for cattle or cattle feed.

TheRepentent

ted1 wrote: »

Lots of articles and studies to support it.

Any links?

skooterblue2

Unearthly wrote: »

As a vegan myself I've more b12 than the recommended amount. Loads of foods fortified with it. It's not an issue

Clearly my sister in law isnt getting enough, despite getting injected supplements. Wifes bi-polar friend is one of her latest fads for attention. I now see veganism as a marker.

Heebie

I enjoy meat. I don't enjoy much vegetarian or vegan food, but some of it is ok.
But... I cannot wear anything but leather on my feet. I have a skin condition that causes extremely nasty problems, and the only thing that has ever worked to prevent it, is 100% leather uppers on my shoes. Cotton, meshes, vinyl, all synthetics, cause this horrible soon condition to flare up... so even if I wanted to, I could never go full vegan.

diceyreilly

I don’t think I’ve ever even had a vegan meal. And never will.

ted1

TheRepentent wrote: »

Any links?

Google will help you.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/time.com/5648082/un-climate-report-less-meat/?amp=true

Empty_Space

Im not vegan because I go out into the Irish wilderness. Here, I hunt, kill and eat wild Buffalo and Bears.
Often I am gone for days but I feed my whole village.

[Deleted User]

What about the weight of the moral question though?

For example, a century or two ago, the idea of "homosexuality" being a "morally acceptable" behavior would have been frowned upon, but because most people believed that and, at the time, the suppression of homosexuality ensued.

Here, it's the maltreatment of animals, often severely. Just because the vast majority of people are meat eaters doesn't make the practice a justifiable or good one, if you see what I mean.

So, in terms of this moral standpoint - yes, the majority are in favour of eating meat, but that surely wouldn't justify maltreatment of animals in the same way that the vast majority against homosexuality was justified many decades ago etc.

Many people are disgusted at "trophy hunting", yet spend the next hour eating a medium-rare steak?

Where's the consistency?

Unearthly

ted1 wrote: »

Google will help you.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth

I am just going to preempt some of the incoming replies. The Guardian did not do this study. They are reporting on a study that the Guardian had nothing to do with. It was posted in a scientific journal.

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

Lots of articles and studies to support it.

Big tickets are the methane which is 23 times more damaging than CO2, deforestation for grazing cows and growing animal feed, water requirements

Methane lasts about a decade in the atmosphere compared to thousands of years for CO2. No deforestation for grazing cows in Ireland infact Ireland's forest has grown from 1% to 11% in the past century with much more planned. Water requirements again em errr rain..... think about it not as bad as importing plant based foods from heavily irregated foreign countries.

All also well documented with lots of studies and articles, often in the same UN documents that get misquoted regularly.

ted1

diceyreilly wrote: »

I don’t think I’ve ever even had a vegan meal. And never will.

Pretty close minded. Bean chilli, vegetarian curry lots of full flavour foods that leave you full

Empty_Space

Empty_Space wrote: »

Im not vegan because I go out into the Irish wilderness. Here, I hunt, kill and eat wild Buffalo and Bears.
Often I am gone for days but I feed my whole village.

Plus by eating animals I can take on some of their characteristics.

uck51js9zml2yt

Ask a vegan if they have a puppy.

Then ask them if they think it's ok to take it from its mother just so they can have a pet.

It would be an interesting conversation.

Empty_Space

Finley Old Zeal wrote: »

Ask a vegan if they have a puppy.

Then ask them if they think it's ok to take it from its mother just so they can have a pet.

It would be an interesting conversation.

Ask them if they want a cow genecide. They want to make cows extinct.

Not to mention the pigs.

emaherx

ted1 wrote: »

The grass land would be forests if they weren’t cleared for cattle or cattle feed.

Managed grass lands can out perform our native woodland for carbon sequestering.

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

Methane lasts about a decade in the atmosphere compared to thousands of years for CO2. No deforestation for grazing cows in Ireland infact Ireland's forest has grown from 1% to 11% in the past century with much more planned. Water requirements again em errr rain..... think about it not as bad as importing plant based foods from heavily irregated foreign countries.

All also well documented with lots of studies and articles, often in the same UN documents that get misquoted regularly.

We are the least forested country in Europe!! Deforestation has already happened. Our forests are mainly pine which leads to issues with our lakes and rivers

dartboardio

As first poster said. Because I want to eat meat and dairy. Its normal to most of us, and all we know, and happy to not change that.

That doesn't make anyone evil, or a bad person.

Just another fad if you ask me. People seem to forget we are something of an animal, we are humans, this is natural.

Eating meat, and dairy, is the most natural thing to me, just like drinking, going to the toilet, or reproducing is.

There are lots of good points that vegans mention, I'm sure it's great to be so compassionate about the cows feelings, but it's a bit of a 'treehugger' in my eyes.

I will raise my kids, as I was raised, fully balanced diet.

I dont want the natural cycle of life to change, and its not gonna happen either, despite how many oat milks or falafel burgers are consumed!

ted1

emaherx wrote: »

Managed grass lands can out perform our native woodland for carbon sequestering.

Define woodland. We dint have to many of them.

GooglePlus

Feisar wrote: »

Isn't it also proven the nutrient dense meat is the reason we developed into humans?

The need for a bigger brain allowed for us to have a larger brain, we evolved over time and out compete our smaller brained homo ancestors.

Give Sapiens a read, it's an in depth history of where we came from and very interesting.

I eat meat by the way and have no plans on stopping but if meat leads to brain growth then why is my accountant not a lion?

emaherx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What about the weight of the moral question though?

For example, a century or two ago, the idea of "homosexuality" being a "morally acceptable" behavior would have been frowned upon, but because most people believed that and, at the time, the suppression of homosexuality ensued.

Here, it's the maltreatment of animals, often severely. Just because the vast majority of people are meat eaters doesn't make the practice a justifiable or good one, if you see what I mean.

So, in terms of this moral standpoint - yes, the majority are in favour of eating meat, but that surely wouldn't justify maltreatment of animals in the same way that the vast majority against homosexuality was justified many decades ago etc.

Many people are disgusted at "trophy hunting", yet spend the next hour eating a medium-rare steak?

Where's the consistency?

Animals don't need to be maltreated to be farmed for meat.

It is completely natural for some animals to be eaten and even nessacery in nature. But in nature the slaughtering is far from humane.