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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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Faugheen

Niallof9 wrote: »

ok lads, get it back on track so....clean up the "mess" with some great insight.

The same old people always negatively attacking any other opinion. No wonder other lurkers don't bother.

You'd swear we just had a really successful World Cup, rather than nearly the worst ever post 2007.

Irish rugby has problems. Can they be solved over the coming weekend or the coming weeks? Hopefully a fresh squad, under attacking rugby with a new coach can re-invigorate Irish rugby.

‘Let’s move on’ then you play the victim again.

Either move on or don’t.

Niallof9

Faugheen wrote: »

‘Let’s move on’ then you play the victim again.

Either move on or don’t.

I'll move on when you stop labeling posts as nonsense and bizarre (they weren't mine)

I'm not going to sit by while a select number of posters attack any other suggestion as was done when somebody (again not mine that time) brought up the off the ball suggestion.

Again you'd swear we just didn't head into a World Cup in huge confidence, but lose to Japan in our worst ever match and then get obliterated by NZ without firing a shot. You'd swear it didn't happen. Just like it didn't happen in 07, 11, 15.

there comes a time when it should be said enough is enough. and something quite clearly isn't working.

sydthebeat

A lot of others would put up disagreeing arguments, but they can't actually see your posts....

Faugheen

Niallof9 wrote: »

I'll move on when you stop labeling posts as nonsense and bizarre (they weren't mine)

I'm not going to sit by while a select number of posters attack any other suggestion as was done when somebody (again not mine that time) brought up the off the ball suggestion.

Again you'd swear we just didn't head into a World Cup in huge confidence, but lose to Japan in our worst ever match and then get obliterated by NZ without firing a shot. You'd swear it didn't happen. Just like it didn't happen in 07, 11, 15.

there comes a time when it should be said enough is enough. and something quite clearly isn't working.

Because the OTB ‘suggestion’ was just another way of saying ‘why not pick lads who play abroad?’

They have a bee in their bonnet over the Zebo thing (Ger Gilroy in particular) and the discussion has been done to death here. Nearly every week it comes up to the point where it has become nonsense.

Nobody is ‘swearing it didn’t happen’. When you make hyperbolic statements like that your posts are going to be seen as nonsense and ridiculous. There’s numerous issues around the WC but you want to pin it down to the central contracts and you made sweeping statements about them which were all debunked and now you’re claiming people are out to get you.

You say you played alongside Johnny Sexton, which would put you in your 30s, yet you’re throwing shapes like a child when people argue your hyperbolic nonsense.

The players are all back at their provinces, European Rugby is back this weekend. I’ll probably have another row with aloof but it’s what I enjoy coming here for. The discussion and the debate. If you listen to other posters and hold your hands up from time to time instead of defending your opinion while moving the goalposts then you will be taken a hell of a lot more seriously.

Niallof9

sydthebeat wrote: »

A lot of others would put up disagreeing arguments, but they can't actually see your posts....

oh yeah you know that for a fact do you

Niallof9

Faugheen wrote: »

Because the OTB ‘suggestion’ was just another way of saying ‘why not pick lads who play abroad?’

They have a bee in their bonnet over the Zebo thing (Ger Gilroy in particular) and the discussion has been done to death here. Nearly every week it comes up to the point where it has become nonsense.

Nobody is ‘swearing it didn’t happen’. When you make hyperbolic statements like that your posts are going to be seen as nonsense and ridiculous. There’s numerous issues around the WC but you want to pin it down to the central contracts and you made sweeping statements about them which were all debunked and now you’re claiming people are out to get you.

You say you played alongside Johnny Sexton, which would put you in your 30s, yet you’re throwing shapes like a child when people argue your hyperbolic nonsense.

The players are all back at their provinces, European Rugby is back this weekend. I’ll probably have another row with aloof but it’s what I enjoy coming here for. The discussion and the debate. If you listen to other posters and hold your hands up from time to time instead of defending your opinion while moving the goalposts then you will be taken a hell of a lot more seriously.

again nonsense and ridiculous pops up in one of your posts. And thats how you debunk it is it? I actually haven't seen you debunk anything. I have only seen you be wrong time and time again.

Its not hyperbole to suggest reasons, one or two ****ing reasons among many, as to why we failed yet again. what have you offered? Nuggets like VDF is better than Leavy? Or the pro 14 will collapse without the big names, even though they only play 8 or 9 games a year in it at a stretch.

Its why no new posters really come on here i reckon, the same tired attack dogs giving out about people offering an alternative solution. Its pure hyperbole of course to suggest anything that deviates from the nartrative on here.

That Rob Kearney is the best fullback in the World. Ireland's gameplan was beautiful and slick to watch. That there is no problems whatsoever.

Faugheen

You’re not even reading posts you’re just defending everything and rehashing old arguments.

I think we’re done here.

awec

Faugheen wrote: »

You’re not even reading posts you’re just defending everything and rehashing old arguments.

I think we’re done here.

On that we can agree.

Niallof9, Shefwedfan and Faugheen - stop replying to each other on this thread, it's going nowhere.

Everyone needs to improve the standard of their posts here, we are allowed to disagree but this has been pretty uncivil, and that's not on.

[Deleted User]

awec wrote: »

Everyone needs to improve the standard of their posts here

Post in Jar Jar quotes only?

Seems to be working well on the Ulster thread.

jacothelad

Deleted User wrote: »

Post in Jar Jar quotes only?

Seems to be working well on the Ulster thread.

We just thought you were from Derry and related to Nadine Coyle....:D:D:D

Dubinusa

Is it safe now? Lol.

Some Yoke

Easterby to become Ireland's defence coach- unclear if we are getting a new forwards coach (the 42 et al, 2019)

Riskymove

Some Yoke wrote: »

Easterby to become Ireland's defence coach- unclear if we are getting a new forwards coach (the 42 et al, 2019)

other article implied scrum coach will expand to do lineout and forward stuff

ionadnapóca

Whats Dave Ellis doing these days?
Would think Ireland could do with a really exceptional skills coach
https://www.therugbysite.com/coaching-videos/coaches/dave-ellis

Squidgy Black

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Whats Dave Ellis doing these days?
Would think Ireland could do with a really exceptional skills coach
https://www.therugbysite.com/coaching-videos/coaches/dave-ellis

He's coaching with Kenilworth I believe, semi pro side in Level 6 of the English leagues.

ionadnapóca

Squidgy Black wrote: »

He's coaching with Kenilworth I believe, semi pro side in Level 6 of the English leagues.

Thats mad Ted
what’s going on with that?

He would be a great addition to the Irish coaching setup.
An experienced head who is a world class coach and familiar with Irish players.

Irish players passing and offloading were painfully lacking when the pressure came on at the WC.

JRant

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Thats mad Ted
what’s going on with that?

He would be a great addition to the Irish coaching setup.
An experienced head who is a world class coach and familiar with Irish players.

Irish players passing and offloading were painfully lacking when the pressure came on at the WC.

I think our decision making let us down more than anything else. Passing to the wrong man or trying an offload that was never on were continually happening. That comes from not only opposition pressure but mostly internal pressure.

What surprised me was not only how quickly our confidence was shot but that the coaching team didn’t know how to stem the flow. It’s not like the players were doing that badly at their provinces and some showed better form when they returned there after the 6N.

We are a good team, better than we showed in the WC. However, there is definitely a major issue with how the IRFU approach this tournament. Maybe it’s all just bad luck and unforeseen circumstances but, personally, I don’t buy that.

We are also relatively new to this winning malarky. Most of our current players and, more importantly, the next generation are and should be built on a stellar academy system. Proper coaching from a younger age and hopefully a winning mindset.

ionadnapóca

Yes good point on the poor decision making.
Teams like Japan and even Wales showed better skill levels; particularly in their forwards, when under pressure. They also showed buckets more resilience.

Sexton, Healy, Earls, Stockdale & Kearney all made particularly poor decisions v NZ.
I feel the cornerstone of decision making is a great skill level.
The greater your technical skills the easier it is to make decisions and execute under pressure.

Irish players looked like their confidence was shot and their skills deserted them.

England had a plethora of coaches for mental and technical skills.
Ireland had Richie Murphy.
I think the irfu could stretch the finances to bolster the coaching setup with a WC skills coach.

Dubinusa

It was a year long malaise. It's surprising, the fact that 3 provinces made the Euro qf's and Leinster lost in the final. So, everything was going fairly well at the provincial level. The international standard was terrible. From game 1 against England.
The coaching team were stuck on a system that was failing. They couldn't turn it around, for whatever reason!
Very poor coaching, imo. At this level, barring catastrophic injuries and a slew of red cards in matches, it's hard to believe that our lads turned into the keystone cops on the biggest stage.
We all have opinions and theories and we voice them. But, I don't think at this point last year, we would be mulling over another failed rwc. I think none of us would have!

Clegg

Good opening day for the Irish sides in Europe. Munster and Ulster with away wins and Leinster with a hard run out against Benneton but a comfortable victory in the end.

From an Ireland point of view it was good to see Ringrose to play so well. His hattrick shows trying scoring excellence, but he also kick passed and offloaded on a number of occasions. Really developing well as an auxiliary playmaker.

Ronan Kelleher and Max Deegan were the pick of the youngsters. With a void to be filled at hooker I think Kelleher is best positioned to take over from Best. He's a hard worker in defence and has an excellent attacking game. Can offload and play the link man extremely well. Deegan was very good as an early substitute. Carried extremely well in tight and makes a lot of metres for a guy who doesn't have a huge build. Also played very well at the ruck. He's someone Farrell should have a look at come January.

VdF was also exceptional. When he's given the chance to play at bit wider he has a great turn of speed and carries extremely well.

tryagain

The CC results were great stuff but maybe unearthed a few new starters as we have to shake this team up a bit.

bilston

From an Ulster POV Luke Marshall and John Cooney both played very well.

Marshall is having a really good season and it's great to see him injury and getting a run of games. Performing well away from home against top opposition in Europe is bound to attract the selectors. Very strong defensively and showed really good hands throughout the game.

Henderson was a bit of a beast as well, it will be good to see him put a consistent run together.

Faugheen

bilston wrote: »

From an Ulster POV Luke Marshall and John Cooney both played very well.

Marshall is having a really good season and it's great to see him injury and getting a run of games. Performing well away from home against top opposition in Europe is bound to attract the selectors. Very strong defensively and showed really good hands throughout the game.

Henderson was a bit of a beast as well, it will be good to see him put a consistent run together.

I’d love to see the likes of Marshall and D. Kearney’s early season form throw them back into the mix of the Ireland squad. I know we’re quite stacked in the back 3 and at centre but who knows?

Niallof9

Cooney and Conway making a mockery of the diabolical wc selection calls. Hopefully Farrell selects on form

Good to see Irish players play without the restraints and fear straitjacket. Ringrose’s footwork being a prime example. Vdf given more freedom. It’s really easy to see. Obviously the level of quality drops, but I think the contrast that some of us saw so far back has been ruthlessly unveiled to the joe disciples after such a truly terrible wc. The blind can now see, thank G..Stu

salmocab

Niallof9 wrote: »

Cooney and Conway making a mockery of the diabolical wc selection calls. Hopefully Farrell selects on form

Good to see Irish players play without the restraints and fear straitjacket. Ringrose’s footwork being a prime example. Vdf given more freedom. It’s really easy to see. Obviously the level of quality drops, but I think the contrast that some of us saw so far back has been ruthlessly unveiled to the joe disciples after such a truly terrible wc. The blind can now see, thank G..Stu

Joe disciples? Can you give this all a rest it’s tedious, childish and petty. You don’t need to put down everyone that disagrees with you POV.

Niallof9

salmocab wrote: »

Joe disciples? Can you give this all a rest it’s tedious, childish and petty. You don’t need to put down everyone that disagrees with you POV.

Who saids I’m putting anybody down. Address the issues raised perhaps

Shefwedfan

Was listening to the discussion on the Molecast in terms of Irish development, was interesting

I do agree with the points they made but I think a few people might be aware of that

Worth a listen as always

salmocab

Niallof9 wrote: »

Who saids I’m putting anybody down. Address the issues raised perhaps

Calling people names is just that

Locke_Lamora

Faugheen wrote: »

I’d love to see the likes of Marshall and D. Kearney’s early season form throw them back into the mix of the Ireland squad. I know we’re quite stacked in the back 3 and at centre but who knows?

I love Marshall but don’t think I’d have him in the Ireland squad - very limited passing, and he’s prone to a few howlers. His defence for ulster is usually heroic but gets caught out against better teams. Personally I’d love to see Tom Farrell given a shot.

Whatever happens in the centre I think we need to change how we attack. As good as ringrose is, he has a bad habit of ignoring space and overlaps outside in favour of stepping inside and taking contact. It comes off for him every not and again but more generally it stunts our attack, and stops our wingers from getting into the game more.

Both Kearney’s always cause a lot of discussion, but I wouldn’t have Dave in the squad unless there’s a couple injuries.

Clegg

Ringrose does have some faults and the occasional bout of blinkers on does happen. But he's our best centre by a mile. He's also generally a good passer as seen with Leinster.

The problem with our wings not receiving the ball enough surfaced this year, but I think a lot of that was down to tactics. In 2018 we didn't seem to have a problem getting the ball into wide areas. After the failure in developing Aki as a distributing 12 we didn't go looking for another passer, but rather opted to not pass from the centres at all. We only did it against the minnows.

As for Tom Farrell. He's a decent player, but until a few weeks ago he wasn't starting for Connacht. And Ringrose is just better.