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President Donald Trump - Formal Impeachment Inquiry Announced

Veritas Libertas

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi announces a formal impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump over the whistleblower complaint on Trump's communication with Ukraine about Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden and his son Hunter Biden. /CNN

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Overheal

Your argument really doesn’t answer the question though, which yes is a blatant hypothetical. Do I suppose we agree what the ramifications would be if Zelensky is compromised by his involvement with events so far?

Outlaw Pete

Overheal wrote: »

Question for the room:

If Zelensky came out or had already come out and said categorically that there was pressure, what do you suppose would have been his political future? The close ties with the US and the West? Would Ukrainians still trust him after caving to the demand? Furthermore, would anyone else in the West? Would he be impeached himself for capitulating?

So Zelensky is lying, this is where we are now.

I get it though, must be very frustrating to level a charge of bribery at someone and yet the person/country you all claim is a victim of it, says it's nonsense. What else can one do than but resort to loaded hypotheticals.

What the left need to accept is that the situation with the Bidens, with regards to their relationship with Burisma (while Joe was Vice President) needed/needs to be investigated. If Ukraine took the position that they were not going to cooperate with any such investigations, then the POTUS would be well within his rights to use aid as leverage, just as, ironically, Joe Biden did when he wanted Ukraine to cooperate with the Obama administration when they were tackling corruption in Ukraine.

The notion that it's okay for the Obama administration to withhold aid until Ukraine did what the US wanted, but the Trump administration can't, is preposterous ... and don't give me the usual reply that 'Well, the Obama administration had International support to fight corruption in Ukraine' as 1) that support is still there and 2) even if it wasn't, the US shouldn't (and doesn't) need it.

Which brings is to the only card left to play for the democrats, the incidental one: Joe is running for office ,and therefore, Ukraine investigating Biden and his son's dealings with Burisma, at the behest of Donald, is therefore him soliciting a foreign power to interfere in a US election. It's laughable and that's even if Trump did what is alleged. Narratives are not facts and this nothing burger will be dealt with as such in the Senate.

Democrats and the left alike, always accuse others of what they themselves are guilty of and that is what is happening right now before the world, as THEY are the ones investigating a political rival with the hope it will help them in 2020.

Overheal

Still not done watching her testimony. Halfway in its already not a good day for Republicans; Nunes in the start of their 45 minutes, nakedly implies to the witness that she is a stage performer for the Democrats and for coming forward, then Trump drilled in with that tweet... sadly if overshadows (greatly) some of his smarter attempts at parliament like pointing out perhaps the witness’ testimony better applies to House Foreign Affairs than Intelligence, because he swept those sentiments into an attack on her personal in effect.

Republicans, especially Republican counsel, notably shifted a bit in tone by the halfway mark. Compared to how Caster badgered Kent on day one - at times asking him a torrent of rhetorical questions that interrupted Kent’s ability to answer, and *sigh* they were all questions about BidenGate - with Yovanovitch meanwhile he switched gears (this after the witness tampering tweet, dunno if it was the plan for the day anyway) and started to treat this witness with far less hostility. Frankly, I think it was interpreted as a retreat by Republicans, from the rancor we’ve seen the past days and weeks. Reports about their fleeing from gaggles after the hearing seem to confirm that.

And blowing up Casters phone, it’s like the GOP in real time was trying to change their entire strategy for the day - which seemed to revolve around painting Yovanovitch in broadly a bad light and continuing BidenGate - when it became crystal clear this strategy’s optics were now a landmine for them. Republicans might have put a big dent in the women vote.

Seems clear Trumpworld can’t continue to pretend these hearings are zzz so boring when Trump personally involved himself to the point where I think it made viral world news and the globe watched the Republicans preplanned attempts to neg on her and her testimony. By next week I think we will see them start to engage this inquiry far more substantively.

[Deleted User]

Yovanovich applauded for her courage in face of real time intimidation barrage from Trump

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-impeachment-witness-intimidation-inquiry-marie-yovanovitch-a9205251.html

francois

The Holmes deposition looks interesting and damaging.

Overheal

Telling: GOP members eject from reporter gaggle questioning about Trump's witness tampering tweets, going so far as to fake incoming cellphone calls to bail out.

https://www.mediaite.com/trump/caught-gop-rep-reportedly-faked-phone-call-to-duck-questions-about-trump-attacking-yovanovitch/

I’m noticing the impeachment is starting to show up on blogs that normally stay out of this stuff, like Gizmodo. Very clear her testimony was impactful; not at all helped by Trump of course! There is at least one point when Castor is questioning Yovanovitch that you can hear his phone vibrating incessantly (this is after the recess, after the media cycle blew up about the trump tweet) and he’s clearly distracted by the fact. I guess it stands to reason literally every staffer in the room (or watching) could be communicating with the members on groupme or whatever in real-time. Who knows how many people were in his ear. Trump?

Zeldin had much softer tone and rhetoric on day 2’s first recess gaggle than Mark Meadows was on day 1. Zeldin argues minutes after the trump tweet that ‘she wouldn’t have known about the tweet while she’s in the hearing’ but this escapes the fact that in any normal case there is this recess period he’s in where anyone could have told the witness in a side-bar that she was being attacked by the president in real time.

Chilling effect on the foreign services, what is the message to every US official now after seeing what the president did to Marie Yovanovitch:

‘serve me loyally and unquestionably, or be character-assassinated and publicly humiliated and accused of crimes. Now, I would like you to do me a favor...’

Water John

So now, it's no longer heresay. We have a witness who listens to Trump on the phone with Sondland checking that the Ukranians are going to carry out the investigation into the Bidens. Statement of witness from CNN.

Overheal

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Two can play at that game.

Indubitably, it's just show-craft, used to effect.

Professor Moriarty

Overheal wrote: »

I notice Nunes in his opening remarks smeared Chalupa as someone who 'spread dirt around' about Trump for the DNC. I think we can drop the pretense that 'dirt' is an illegal slur in these proceedings now, thankfully.

Two can play at that game.

Overheal

Question for the room:

If Zelensky came out or had already come out and said categorically that there was pressure, what do you suppose would have been his political future? The close ties with the US and the West? Would Ukrainians still trust him after caving to the demand? Furthermore, would anyone else in the West? Would he be impeached himself for capitulating?

mcmoustache

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Trump's campaign chair: felon

Trump's deputy campaign chair: felon

Trump's foreign policy adviser: felon

Trump's national security adviser: felon

Trump's personal lawyer: felon

Trump's longstanding political adviser: felon

All convicted! That's some crazy conspiracy by the Dems to insnare all of them.. one more to go!

That' just a coincidence. No pattern there at all. He just happens to surround himself with felons. It could happen to anybody.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Trump's campaign chair: felon

Trump's deputy campaign chair: felon

Trump's foreign policy adviser: felon

Trump's national security adviser: felon

Trump's personal lawyer: felon

Trump's longstanding political adviser: felon

All convicted! That's some crazy conspiracy by the Dems to insnare all of them.. one more to go!

Overheal

Also dear god, I just realized there are going to be some juvenile, unsavory and salacious remixes/soundbytes of Nunes' reading of the 1st Zelensky call:

Nunes reading aloud... wrote:

But there's no word that can describe our wonderful
country. How nice , warm, and friendly our people are , how tasty
and delicious our food is, and how wonderful Ukraine is. Words
cannot describe our country, so it would be best for you to see
it yourself. So, if you can come,· that would be great. So ,
again, I invite you to come .

...and you know he will sue the **** out of someone on Twitter for it!

Overheal

One things for sure Republicans are determined to marry the Bidens to this, like a 2 for 1 Impeachment & Grand Jury deal for taxpayers

Overheal

I notice Nunes in his opening remarks smeared Chalupa as someone who 'spread dirt around' about Trump for the DNC. I think we can drop the pretense that 'dirt' is an illegal slur in these proceedings now, thankfully.

Water John

Gop couldn't answer in the press meeting, why Giuliani treated the ambassador to a smear campaign.

Good grief, the GOP press conf is all over the place. One main speaker who butts in isn't even on the committee.

MeMen2_MoRi_

Good closing remarks from Schiff about trump praising the corrupt.
All based off what he heard second/third/fourth hand?? Lol

Calhoun

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/north-america/president-trump/very-intimidating-trump-launches-twitter-attack-on-witness-during-impeachment-testimony-38696082.html

He seems to have gone of the boil a little bit.

MadYaker

If I was Trump id be raging with Jim he was fcuking useless. Is the democrat gonna ask a question or his he allowed to rant?

Overheal

Billy Mays wrote: »

Trump gives interview to one of his fox news clapping seals

You know I did read this morning someone was coming out with an ASMR porn app.. and now that you mention it that whole episode is probably just an ASMR Republican Fap. Not that people should avoid it you're still getting another direct window into Trump or at least his ego.

Billy Mays

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Nice scoop for Dan, first ever interview on his podcast and it's the man himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqMaLOC7fPI

Trump gives interview to one of his fox news clapping seals

Overheal

oh geez do I wanna know

edit: no, no no, I will wait until they have to enter it into the congressional record :pac:

Outlaw Pete

Nice scoop for Dan, first ever interview on his podcast and it's the man himself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dqMaLOC7fPI

Overheal

Im 4-5 hours behind watching Nunes opening remarks. He read the 1st Zelensky call into the record - tons of "congratulations" "thanks" etc. Zelensky invited Trump/a diplomat to the Inauguration and Trump extended a white house invitation with no set TBD. I think that was the point of the release - but we know long since after the call, Pence was held back from the inauguration in the Ukraine, and we know from deposition that during the securing of a WH meeting and the aid became conditioned, until Bolton released the aid and the ICIG informed Congress of the whistleblower, regarding a 2nd call. The release also gave Schiff an undeserved touche' to point out that he's decided to release these two telcons but not thousands of subpoenaed documents.

Water John

GOP simply appealing to their base and more pointedly Trump. Poor performance generally with the exception of their counsel who behaved admirably considering he had little to work with.

MeMen2_MoRi_

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/470652-bret-baier-says-trump-attacking-yovanovitch-could-be-article-of-impeachment

"That was a turning point in this hearing so far," Baier said on Twitter of Trump's tweet.

"She was already a sympathetic witness & the President’s tweet ripping her allowed Schiff to point it out real time characterizing it as witness tampering or intimidation -adding an article of impeachment real-time," he added.

Overheal

You have to wonder how Nunes feels right now, aside from all the other bs like his twitter lawsuits he hasn’t a hope with: it was reported last week they might take Nunes out to put Jordan in his place instead but that seemed to miss, Jordan took a lesser spot; I guess shortly into his time he needed/wanted to defer to Stefanik now - could he not make the same case or points?

I agree Stefanik is the best person the GOP has up on that committee and frankly I’m wondering if they shouldn’t just push her in as the chair if Nunes can’t hack it. IMHO the Presidents interests would be better served.

[Deleted User]

Trump is vociforously critical of Yovanovich on Twitter and Trump is very angry for some reason about her actions

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50436521

Overheal

I think that’s specifically people like counsel and stenographers and such?

WaPo posted a piece that aligns with our thought process here:

“ Rep. Devin Nunes (Calif.), the top Republican on the Intelligence Committee, attempted to pass his opening question time off to Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.), the GOP’s one woman on the panel, in violation of the rules the House passed last month to govern the impeachment proceedings. The move appeared to be geared toward the cameras”

“ She claimed that Schiff had yielded time to a Democratic member. That was false — Schiff had only yielded time to his counsel, Daniel Goldman, during the Democrats’ opening question time.
While it is customary, as Nunes pointed out, that members can yield to one another, the House’s rules for impeachment expressly state that the first 90 minutes of open hearings are controlled in equal measure by the chairman and ranking member, and in that time the only person they can defer to are staff counsels. Nunes attempted to defer to Stefanik just a few minutes into his opening question time.
Nunes eventually dropped the cause and deferred to his counsel, Steve Castor.”

It’s on their live feed on the mobile site so I don’t have the permalink handy

Outlaw Pete

Aye, and apparently also Permanent Select Committee employees can be yielded to also within the 45 (whatever / whoever they are).

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-resolution/660/text