liamtech wrote: » I wouldnt argue that Corbyn is a totalitarian myself - i have posted my criticism of Corbyn based on his approach to Brexit which i believe is wrong, bordering on ludicrous and dangerous - based entirely on how divisive and polarizing UKNI politics has become I think the argument saying Labor are becoming totalitarian is wrong, but i can see where those claiming this, are coming fromThe Tom Watson debacle from a month ago was ludicrous - Watson comes out and says he wants a second ref before election - Logical, sensible, even if there was no chance of it happening, it was a good suggestion. Result; He has gone against 'the leader'!!! WATSON MUST GO! (explained that there isnt actually a mechanism to remove someone from position of Deputy Leader) ABOLISH POSITION OF DEPUTY LEADER!!!! therefore in summary WATSON MUST GO!!! - abysmal, ludicrous behavior that fuels those opponents of labor who wish to claim it is becoming militant Momentum - pure and simple, motivated by corbyn and his Corbyniesta's, have behaved poorly in the past - and again only added to the idea of them being bullies who attack anyone that isnt a Corbyn loyalist https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/len-mcluskey-jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-leadership-contest-len-mccluskey-unite-deselect-mps-clive-a7315636.htmlhttps://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/08/activists-to-harness-corbyn-campaign-energy-with-momentum For me Corbyn is 'the great disappointment' - he could be in number 10 right now, if he had boxed clever, and supported remain especially circa end 2017, mid 2018 - at that stage the writing was on the wall, and remain/peoples vote was gaining ground - but again, no. He thinks he will get brexit done - and now he is leading a crazy campaign for him to do so He isnt totalitarian, no. But he is far more controlling than other political leaders - it would be a discussion worth having to try and find a leader who was as militant/controlling as Corbyn - how far would you have to go back And lets face it he has developed a 'proto-Cult of Personality', around himself - and said leadership style is more commonly associated with authoritarianism
Danzy wrote: » Corbyn is one of the longestserving supporters of Brexit in the Commons. On top of that he is faced with the problem of Brexit having its strongest class support in the working class, Large part of Labour's base. Large chunks of them seem to be deserting the party now. Think God on high couldn't square the problems Labour have.If he was all out for remain he'd lose them completely. That causes other losses as well.
Joe_ Public wrote: » A couple of points worth noting i think. The main architect of the move to oust watson as deputy leader was Jon Lansman. Lansman is indeed the main man behind Momemtum but he is not really all that much a fan of Corbyn. Also, it was Corbyn himself who actually put a stop to it. So while that may have been a shabby piece of business, i wouldnt be convinced it actually paints the dim picture of corbyn some imagine.
Spanish Eyes wrote: » Be better for Labour to let the Tories win on this occasion and self immolate if they go with Brexit in the end. It will not end well, so let Johnson at it, and then in swoops the saviour of the Nation, the Labour Party. Corbyn will be gone by then.
Letwin_Larry wrote: » for all those who think there are no Communists at the heart of the Labour party, check out Seumas Milne. In Oct 2015, the Mr. Corbyn, appointed Seumas Milne as Director of Strategy and Communications. he's a big fan of Putin & Stalin apparently. and an apologist for ISIS/Al Qaeda. this is what he thinks of the brutal murder of Lee Rigby, "Rigby was a British soldier who had taken part in multiple combat operations in Afghanistan. So the attack wasn't terrorism in the normal sense of an indiscriminate attack on civilians." of course he may be right. i personally disagree, but ultimately it's up to the UK voter to decide.https://www.workersliberty.org/story/2019-03-20/stalinists-under-siegehttp://markhumphrys.com/milne.html
Danzy wrote: » If there is an agreed deal, it won't be bad, no deal would be a disaster but as we've seen, the MPs who want that can be counted on one hand.
Capt'n Midnight wrote: » Best predictions for an agreed deal on current lines is a £70Bn a year hit to the economy. Still better than no deal. And the devil is in the detail, no one knows what the UK service industry will get. Or when it will get it.
Danzy wrote: » The UK service market it important to the EU, not just the finance part which is strategic for all of Europe and globally important.
liamtech wrote: » Well in fairness Lansman is even more militant than Corbyn - but i would count him among those in the Militant category who support Jeremy - granted they may have there differences but he is pro corbyn in my mind As to Corbyn coming to Watsons rescue, yes i noted that. But he then talked for a time about having multiple deputy leaders? ?? - it is easy to see where this has led to, and now Watson is gone - I just hope that Labor remain the largest party of opposition, and at least then they will rebuild under someone more pragmatic -
Spanish Eyes wrote: » Maybe Corbyn's ideology is being supported by Putin, who knows? Maybe the same is true of Johnson's administration. Who knows?
Joe_ Public wrote: » Not sure about lansman, obviously a key figure of the labour left, going back decades but I'm not so sure corbyn really is his man. Complex situation probably.https://electronicintifada.net/content/ally-jon-lansman-wanted-jeremy-corbyn-removed/28306This notion of corbyn the cult leader is one i have a bit of trouble with. If he truly is the hard brexiteer he's portayed as, controlling his devoted flock, then i ask myself why he's leading them to a....second referendum. Hardly one of the great cult leaders if he's following the wishes of his membership as opposed to the other way round!Another not altogether thing to remember is that only for jeremy corbyn - the main reason the tories did not get a majority 2 years ago - brexit would almost certainly have been done by now. Not that I'm suggesting remainers should bow down in thanks before him, as more just an accident of circumstance as anything else.
liamtech wrote: » Jeremy Corbyn's 2nd Referendum is a choice between remain, and HIS DEAL (as yet non-existant) - now it is still a second referendum which i think is positive. But the idea is pure and simple. It will take 6 months MINIMUM to secure a Corbyn Brexit deal (assuming the EU wish to negotiate it, which granted it being soft they may well do) - but Corbyn will get massive amount of media coverage during this time where he will implicitly sell his deal, as the Sensible Soft Socialist Brexit. Then he comes back, sits on a fence, and lets the country have at it - the people will know by that time that he is for this deal, as he is the one who negotiated and AGREED IT! Its a second Ref on HIS TERMS
jimmycrackcorm wrote: » Why would it take six months? Boris took only weeks. Corbyns will be easier as it week keep the UK still close to the EU which they will easily accept.
theological wrote: » I think this is good news. The withdrawal agreement needs to get through the Commons so the UK can move on to other policy priorities and using the increased powers that Brexit will give it effectively for its citizens.
correct horse battery staple wrote: » Is anyone surprised that there is even more meddling to have been found in UK politics by Russia? Somehow "Take back control .. and give it to the Russians" does not have the same ring to it. I long insisted that Brexit is a start of a slippery slide to Putin style oligarchical authoritarian dystopia which Russia became after an economic crisis with people nostalgic for the 'better days' It is fascinating the brexiteers here not only not seeing the irony but also trying to dismiss foreign interference in their 'democracy'. The EU helps UK trade on a global stage with incredible access to worlds biggest market right on its doorstep == ENEMY Russia murders people with gruesome radioactive and biologic poisons on UK soil multiple times == FRIEND
correct horse battery staple wrote: » Both have populations and media that did not yet get over the death of their empire Both have extremely rich upper class and a huge chunk of plebs barely scraping by Putin and co has a history of support extremists on both left and right, they care for money and keeping the plebs from chopping off their heads. Brexit and other chaos in Europe and America helps weaken the institutions that might put a curb on his ambitions, also he can point at West and tell his people choose stability under me or chose chaos.Brexit is a win, win, win for Putin and his kgb/mafia criminal buddies
theological wrote: » Interesting summary of the polls in the Guardian. Current average 39% Conservative, 27% Labour. That's a huge gap. Seat translation estimate Tories 370 to 186 Labour. Seat translations are pretty difficult to be fair but even within a margin of error it looks like a Tory majority if things stand as they are today. In Wales it looks like the Tories will gain 9 seats from Labour and 1 will go to the Lib Dems. This shows the disconnect between some of the discussion topics on this thread like who would Labour go into coalition with if they won as one poster suggested and the reality which is that Labour don't have a prayer of being in coalition with anyone on these numbers. I think this is good news. The withdrawal agreement needs to get through the Commons so the UK can move on to other policy priorities and using the increased powers that Brexit will give it effectively for its citizens.
Russman wrote: » I don't necessarily disagree with you, but what does he really gain from Brexit ? I mean the the UK will still be in NATO and bound by those treaties. Its not as if the tanks are going to roll over into the EU and drive to Paris anytime soon. Taking Crimea is a whole order of magnitude smaller than taking Europe. Is it just instability for instability's sake and higher gas prices ? If anything, Brexit has brought the EU closer together and less likely to fragment IMO.
liamtech wrote: » The problem is no one wants to work with Corbyn - Swinson is intractable on the topic of dealing with Labour- and obviously Labour, regardless of what anyone says or claims, are not running on a STOP BREXIT platform - As it stands Labour havent a prayer of a majority - and if it keeps going the way it is, they have barely a chance of a coalition. The best they could achieve would be to hang the parliament - Very complicated, quite depressing actually
Bannasidhe wrote: » That's not actually true though. The SNP have stated they are willing to work with Corbyn - and they are, at the moment, a far larger party in Westminster than the LibDems. It's Swinson who refuses to work with Corbyn. That's her red line. That's her playing politics that could allow the Tories to get back in. I honestly find it hard to understand why people have a problem with the LP position of putting the option of a deal or Remain to the electorate. In a country that is so bitterly divided it seems to me to be the only sensible option. The Tories are saying BREXIT ALL ALL COSTS. The LibDems are saying NO BREXIT - IGNORE THE REFERENDUM VOTE. Labour are saying ELECTORATE MAKES FINAL DECISION. Seems to me only one of those options takes into account what the 'will of the people' might actually be.
liamtech wrote: » You state that "Labour are saying ELECTORATE MAKES FINAL DECISION" - with respect that is a spin of what labour are actually saying, and likely to campaign onLabour win the election - Jeremy is PM regardless of the fact that momentum is for a peoples vote, Jeremy will keep Brexit alive, by renegotiating.
Joe_ Public wrote: » I dont get the argument here. How can you promise a PV without keeping brexit alive in some fashion? What alternative path are you suggesting they follow? Electorate makes final decision. There's no spin there. Unless you think they're lying, the position is crystal clear, regardless of what jeremy corbyn says or thinks after the election. You can criticise the position for many things i believe, but not that.
