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Are all premium phone numbers being abolished from 1st December?

[Deleted User]

I received a text from my mobile phone supplier the other day with the following:

'From December 1st calls to 1850, 1890, 0818 and 076 numbers will cost the same as calls to landline numbers'

Is Comreg (or the EU?) finally abolishing premium numbers? Or, are there other ones outside these? If so, this is the first I've heard of it; the media don't seem to be covering it. A search on The Irish Times for "comreg" and "premium" has nothing, for instance. This would be great, great news and long, long overdue. Will it automatically mean all those scam texts are no more?

I'd imagine these parasite premium phone companies are quite pissed off at this. As are all the firms and state bodies which made substantial money by charging us to ring them. Any ideas what they're going to create to replace this lost income stream?

A big thank you to whoever set up Saynoto1890 years ago to provide us with alternative, non-premium, numbers to the same companies.

Here's a bit more on these changes:

Moneyguideireland: 1850 and 1890 Numbers to be Included in Bundles

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ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

There has been quite a bit in the news on this over the past twelve months. It does not refer to premium numbers but to non-geographic numbers.

It doesn't impact text or 15xx premium rate.

The very piece you link to clearly states that people "believed that organisations can make money from customers dialling those numbers. (They don’t)."
The bodies using the numbers made nothing from them.

Edit: A quick search for the correct term "non-geographic numbers" gives results with IT, RTE etc going back to 2017 detailing Comreg's efforts on this.

Capt'n Midnight

Fuaranach wrote: »

Is Comreg (or the EU?)

Well colour me surprised on this one

https://fora.ie/eir-eu-helpline-numbers-4374331-Dec2018/

BeerWolf

I had to block premium numbers from my mobile number because a few months ago I got deducted €20 in €2.50 per text [of 8] transactions for some scam service that I never applied... and the funny thing was this blatant scam company is registered with Comreg. But as such I did manage to get refunded €17.50 by law they had to.

Greyfox

Something needs to be done about 11850 and 11890, loads of old people still call these numbers as they dont know any better. Over €3 a min with some providers and connection charge. Old people don't realise what their doing a lot of the time

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Greyfox wrote: »

Something needs to be done about 11850 and 11890, loads of old people still call these numbers as they dont know any better. Over €3 a min with some providers and connection charge. Old people don't realise what their doing a lot of the time

As an 'old person' I'm well aware of the cost of these numbers and avoid them like the plague. I've also petitioned comreg about them for years. Something has been done: From December I will have them for free, as the landline bundle will now include calls to 1850 and 1890. Something has been done. And going forward 1850 and 1890 will disappear altogether.

Stephen Gawking

I still remember blaming my older brother for ringing all those 'sordid' numbers back in the 1990's... He still doesn't know to this dayðŸ˜

NotToScale

No. Premium rate numbers are not being abolished and the numbers that are being phased out are not premium rate.

Irish premium rate numbers start with prefixes beginning with 15. For example 1550 or 1580 and so on.

Back in the early 1990s, when calls were charged at about 35 cents per min (in modern terms) to call between say Dublin and Cork, there was a demand for numbers that were charged at lower rates for business help lines and so on. So, Telecom Eireann rolled out 1850 (charged at one unit untimed like old local calls) 1890 (charged as a timed local call) and 0818 (charged at national long distance rate). The difference between the per minute rate the customer paid and the full charge was picked up by the company you were calling.

The cost of calls plummeted since the market was liberalised and most of us do not pay per minute for calls. We've all got bundles of minutes are entirely flat rate calls at this stage.

The mobile networks and landline operators, rather sneakily, excluded those reduced rate numbers from their landline minute bundles, charging people crazy per minute rates based on old 1990s charging. So you rang 1890 XXX XXX at 'local rate' and got charged something like 20c per minute on your mobile.

076 was then launched as a special VoIP area code to be used for VoIP based phone services. That's become a bit irrelevant as everything is moving to VoIP anyway nowadays and it never saw much uptake. For some reason (mostly price gouging) the operators almost always excluded that from your landline and mobile bundle too. That was never how it was intended.

Anyway, what's happening is they're simplifying things.

This year 1850, 1890, 0818 and 076 will be charged as if they're regular landlines. So you will be paying as if you're calling 021 or 01 etc and they'll come out of your normal minute bundles.

Then on 1 January 2022 they will close 1850, 1890 and 076 entirely. They have to give companies time to move to new numbers on 0818, 1800 or just regular landline numbers.

So after that you'll just have two codes:

1800 XXX XXX - free of charge.
0818 XXX XXX - charged as a landline call (and charged within your bundled minutes).

It's long overdue and way more transparent and easy to understand.

There's still a need for non geographic, easy to remember numbers for businesses who don't want to have different numbers for different areas, so both of those codes will remain in use for a long time to come.

As for 118 XX directory assistance. I think those numbers should be required to play a warning of how much they're charging before the call is connected at all. I'd say though the use case for them is hardly there at all anymore with internet access on smartphones in most people's pockets, so they're really increasingly just services for people who can't use the internet and should probably morph into socially provided services.

Victor

Anson Famous Judo wrote: »

As an 'old person' I'm well aware of the cost of these numbers and avoid them like the plague. I've also petitioned comreg about them for years. Something has been done: From December I will have them for free, as the landline bundle will now include calls to 1850 and 1890. Something has been done. And going forward 1850 and 1890 will disappear altogether.

11890 and 1890 are very different numbers.

11890 is a directory enquiry service which will connect you to the number you want, but will charge extra.

1890 is a prefix is for 'LoCall' numbers which charge local rates for long-distance phone calls. However, some phone companies charge for them at much higher rates, with no saving to the caller.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

This is it wrote: »

I'm not sure that directory enquires are affected by the new regulations. Have you any links?

If you mean 118 numbers, they are not affected. Does anybody still use them?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Victor wrote: »

11890 and 1890 are very different numbers.

11890 is a directory enquiry service which will connect you to the number you want, but will charge extra.

1890 is a prefix is for 'LoCall' numbers which charge local rates for long-distance phone calls. However, some phone companies charge for them at much higher rates, with no saving to the caller.

Sorry, misread 11850 as 1850. Does anybody use those directory numbers nowadays. People were warned off them years ago.

NotToScale

This is it wrote: »

You would think that most people Google but I'm sure the odd person still does.

At one stage there was a 118XX service where they'd just Google things for you ... Calling up for directory information's a bit of an obsolete service at the stage. I would say it will go the way of the speaking clock, consigned to the history books.

Back in the day, it was a useful and widely used service, but I'd be surprised if those services even exist in a few years time, as they're entirely commercially provided.

However, the number change and pricing change that's being announced has nothing to do with either premium rate numbers or directory enquiry services. It's only about special 'reduced' rate numbers - 1850, 1890, 0818 and 076.

The 076 VoIP prefix was a bit confusing as anyone who was using it was assumed to be in Donegal, when it was actually a non-geographic number.

Also watch your phone bills, as it's a ComReg directive as of 1st December 2019 that they do not surcharge you for using these numbers and that applies to *all* Irish telephone suppliers (fixed or mobile), not just the ones that have sent a text.

Ian010

DJEI completely botched the transposition of the EU Consumer Rights Directive into Irish Law in 2013. I wrote a long post about that at the time.

The EU Directive bans the operation of numbers where the caller pays more than a basic rate call for calls to after-sales helplines. The Irish Regulations permit the usage of numbers starting 1850, 1890, 076 and 0818, all of which can cost more than calling a landline number and all of which are excluded from inclusive call allowances.

ComReg is now putting this right by changing the charges for calls to these numbers and ensuring these calls are included in allowances. This, however, comes more than five years after consumers should already have been benefitting from the provisions of the EU directive.

Some providers have already posted notification of the changes:
https://www.virginmedia.ie/nongeo/
https://www.virginmedia.ie/business/faqs/ngn/
https://www.eir.ie/pricingupdate/
https://www.tescomobile.ie/nongeo
https://notifications.three.ie/service-notification/ngn-and-network-speeds

[edit]Now also:
https://digiweb.ie/knowledge-base/call-charges/

With just over a month to go, there is complete silence from
Sky Talk and Sky Mobile
Vodafone Ireland (landline & mobile)
Lycamobile
48Months (mobile)
Postmobile
Pure Telecom (landline)
Magnet (landline)
BT Ireland (landline)
Imagine (landline)

It may be that some of these providers are hoping to ignore the regulation change, others may be completely unaware of the changes and have done nothing to prepare.

If your provider is one of those who have published nothing, give them a call to ask them what they are doing.

JohnC.

Got a relevant text from Vodafone this morning

Harry Palmr

Just got the same text

Ian010

As the calendar turns into November, one more provider has posted their announcement:
https://www.puretelecom.ie/blog/customer-notification-comreg-price-update-1850-1890-0818-or-076-numbers

Ian010

One more provider has posted their announcement.
https://48months.ie/boiler-plate/ngn-and-network-speeds

Still nothing seen from Sky, Lycamobile, Post Mobile, Magnet, BT Ireland or Imagine.

Graces7

My cell phone is a Tesco pay as you go and a message came re 1890 etc. I remembered this thread then. I use phone banking and it is 1890. Every little helps..Oh and I get all Irish landline numbers free too.

Ian010

And another.

https://www.sky.com/ireland/terms-conditions/broadband-talk/

Ian010

With less than three weeks to go, still nothing from Lycamobile, Post Mobile, Magnet, BT Ireland or Imagine.

Also nothing from ACN, APTUS, GoMo, Hive, IFA Telecom, PermaNet, RippleCom or WorldLink.

Ian010

One more.

http://support.freespeech.ie/index.php?_m=news&_a=viewnews&newsid=85

Ian010

And another.

https://www.ripplecom.net/blog/ngn-changes/
https://www.ripplecom.net/residential/2019/11/15/ngn-changes/

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Ian010 wrote: »

With less than three weeks to go, still nothing from Lycamobile, Post Mobile, Magnet, BT Ireland or Imagine.

Also nothing from ACN, APTUS, GoMo, Hive, IFA Telecom, PermaNet, RippleCom or WorldLink.

Why the fixation with it being announced? The rule change comes in regardless.

Ian010

Past experience has shown that when a provider fails to announce in advance of the deadline something that they should be doing, there is a high probability that on the day they will fail to comply. Most providers announce price changes with 30 days notice. The facts that with just two weeks to go and half of the providers have yet to say anything must be a cause for concern.

Ian010

One week to go.

If your provider is one of the following, you should ask them about the changes.

Lyca, PostMobile, Magnet, BT Ireland, Imagine, Nova Telecom, ACN, APTUS, GoMo, Hive, IFA Telecom, PermaNet, WorldLink, IrishVOIP, KBCD.

None of them have published anything about the immenent changes. Come the day, there's a good chance that some of them will claim to know nothing about it.

JTMan

Good work with monitoring this.

Shocking that there is not a minimum notice period for providers to notify customers.

Ian010

I find it odd that ComReg didn't explicitly direct all providers to publish the announcement on their website by a particular date. This would have given a clear and early indication as to which providers were not going to comply, well in advance of the implementation date.

Ian010

Further research reveals a long list of VoIP providers, none of which appear to have published anything about the changes. These are, in no particular order...

Blueface, Cinditel Communication, Clarity Telecom, Connect IT, CTX Ltd, Eagle Vision VoIP, Emutex, ePhone, Eurekaplanet, G7Eleven, Infinity IT, Iping, IP Telecom, MyDivert.com, Nikkita Solutions, Procom Telephone Systems, RocTel International, Speechpath, SupplyIP Ireland, VEEComms, VoIP Ireland, VoIP Technologies, WebAngel, Welltel, Zen Telecom.

There are undoubtedly many others.

JTMan

Comreg are now advertising the change on Twitter.

Ian010

News media is starting to pick up on this story.

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2019/1129/1096002-non-geographic-numbers-changes/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/1850-telephone-calls-to-cost-no-more-than-a-local-call-from-sunday-1.4099450

As well as some other sites.

https://whatsnew.citizensinformation.ie/2019/11/29/charges-for-non-geographic-numbers/
https://www.marketscreener.com/news/Media-Release-Lowering-the-cost-of-calling-Non-Geographic-Numbers--29660503/