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Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

wexfordman2

Hi,

Thinking this might be a worthwhile information point and reference.

Good to get an idea of prices, and see if the recent grant is causing anomies etc.

If anyone cares to post up quotes they got (but excluding the company/supplier to keep mods happy).

We should show quote if system dimension, something along the lines of

4kw solar with 5kw battery and diverter 9,900 ex vat
5kw solar with 5kw battery and diverter 11,200 ex vat.

Additional info
This was for a "premium" solar panel with 30 year warranty.

Provider is seai registered, so grant is apicable, and he claims HRI/vat refund available also, however I believe thats an error.

Payment terms
20% on order
Additional 50% prior to install
Remaining 30% post commissioning

Quite for market standard panels as follows

4kw with 5kw battery 8750 ex vat
5kw with 5kw batter 9750 ex vat

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Mr Q

Coltrane wrote: »

Well spotted! I’ll check it out, thanks. Though, I don’t see much solar-surplus these weeks...only 1.8kWh exported this month-to-date.

...not seeing this content myself in yesterday's firmware (9085R5). There were previous updates related to the EME and these are incorporated into the same update-doc, a few pages down, kinda confusingly...I’ve long since installed those and they don’t fix the issue...

...you had me excited there for a moment - Friday nights aren't what they used to be...

...or the update that you're seeing may not be available to my kit (VVM320, 2040 12kW)

...my system shows the current from the PV alright, just doesn't use any of it!

Ah that is a shame then, I thought they might have eventually got these units working. There are some changes related to the EME20 made this year too but I don't think many will have these units fitted. I've not fitted either but would if they got them working properly.

I see what you mean about the layout of the document, missed the dates relating to previous changes.

Coltrane

Mr Q wrote: »

Do you still have this installed Coltrane? There is a software update on the NIBE website dated yesterday for the VVM unit. It mentions changes to the EME unit several times including one about how the power is regulated. Might be worth updating to this if you have not already and see if you notice any improvement.

Well spotted! I’ll check it out, thanks. Though, I don’t see much solar-surplus these weeks...only 1.8kWh exported this month-to-date.

...not seeing this content myself in yesterday's firmware (9085R5). There were previous updates related to the EME and these are incorporated into the same update-doc, a few pages down, kinda confusingly...I’ve long since installed those and they don’t fix the issue...

...you had me excited there for a moment - Friday nights aren't what they used to be...

...or the update that you're seeing may not be available to my kit (VVM320, 2040 12kW)

...my system shows the current from the PV alright, just doesn't use any of it!

air

You could try turning around the CT clamp that is sensing the inverter output (assuming you can do so safely) and it may work.

Northumberland

Mr Q wrote: »

Do you still have this installed Coltrane? There is a software update on the NIBE website dated yesterday for the VVM unit. It mentions changes to the EME unit several times including one about how the power is regulated. Might be worth updating to this if you have not already and see if you notice any improvement.

I still have my EME accessory on a NIBE heatpump supposedly increasing hot water storage temperature when plenty of sun. After making various protests, including calls to NIBE in Sweden, UNIPIPE Dublin came to my place a week ago, updated the software - but it seems from your post there is now more recent software, and checked the system - it finally started working, at least giving a reading of current and power being detected in the cable. But now it seems that the power sensor must be around the wrong cable coming from my Solis Ginlong hybrid inverter, because the NIBE thinks the sun is shining when the battery is discharging etc etc. So, still far from happy with it, and actually disconnected the EME solar power detection device for the time being, I sensed a danger that it would be boosting hot water when there was no sun at all.

Mr Q

Coltrane wrote: »

You’re not alone! I’ve a 2040/VVM with the same EME accessory, same journey with installer/distributor and same frustration. The accessory simply doesn’t work. The responsible at the distributor told me verbally that he himself in his tests could only get it to work at>6kW...NIBE’s explanation was a ‘safety limit’...

It’s a real shame as I had hoped to use my cylinder in particular as a capacitor and in the olden days of my gas boiler I had a diverter that worked just fine.

Do you still have this installed Coltrane? There is a software update on the NIBE website dated yesterday for the VVM unit. It mentions changes to the EME unit several times including one about how the power is regulated. Might be worth updating to this if you have not already and see if you notice any improvement.

KCross

Prowetod wrote: »

I have begun research into a future solar PV install in my home. I have a couple of questions if anyone has any experience they could share. I have a heat pump and am on a day/night ESB tariff. The bulk of the power demand in the house is from the heat pump and currently, most of that is early morning and evening time demand. I can bring forward the heat pump evening demand, to some extent, to conicide with the peak PV output.

I think you should concentrate on getting the HP to boost as much as you can on night rate rather than trying to utilise excess Solar with it.

You will have very little excess solar during the winter when the HP is working at its hardest.
You dont want your HP cycling when the clouds roll over. That will reduce its lifespan considerably.
You would have to do electrical work to make it happen and the savings would likely never pay for itself.

Since you mentioned an EV there are options to soak up the excess with that if the car is at home during the day. That would be a more viable option.

Basically, I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

antoinolachtnai

Someone may know better but you will need a proper electrician with a head on her/his shoulders to get that to work with your PV. It will need some arrangement with a relay at the minimum and might need something more complex to detect when the output from the panels goes above a certain threshold.

It looks like it is really designed to work with a load switch supplied by the electricity company.

thos

Prowetod wrote: »

I have begun research into a future solar PV install in my home. I have a couple of questions if anyone has any experience they could share. I have a heat pump and am on a day/night ESB tariff. The bulk of the power demand in the house is from the heat pump and currently, most of that is early morning and evening time demand. I can bring forward the heat pump evening demand, to some extent, to conicide with the peak PV output.

Are there existing systems available to optimise the solar output and the battery charge/discharging? In an ideal world I would be able to use the night rate to fill the battery for use later during the morning peak demand, on the assumption that the batteries would be emptied in the evening time to meet the evening peak demand before night rate kicks in.
Has anyone implemented a solution that delivers what I am looking for?
I have a Daiken heat pump that I would like to setup to consume the excess PV when the battery is full - I presume this logic has to be built into the heat pump itself? How would it know if there is solar to consume.

In the short to medium term I expect to get an EV (soon after the PV install) - obviously integrating this new power demand with the solar would be great too.

Do you know what model Daikin you have, or what year it was installed?

The Daikin solution to PV integration is through a LAN Adapter, using their 'Smart Grid' functionality. There is a compatibility matrix here.

This installation manual gives you some idea of the configuration and how it works.

The bad news is that there doesn't seem to be any Irish installers who've done this, or want to try. I tried contacting 4-5 places and didn't get anywhere.
Daikin themselves pointed me to some documentation, but overall weren't very helpful.

I was hoping to get it for heating water during surplus production, as the usual immersion diverters don't work with this system.

I hope you have better luck with it than I did!

Tom

rx8

unkel wrote: »

So did you go for the single 2.4kWh Pylontech battery?

Yeah, the single battery, but it's in a separate cabinet that can take up to 3 batteries. So easy to add more in the future if needed.

unkel

So did you go for the single 2.4kWh Pylontech battery?

rx8

So, got my system installed yesterday. (see above), very pleased with the results. Really good set up, 3 really nice guys. Glad it wasn't raining on them, but it was quite windy on the roof. First day today, battery was fully charged by lunchtime, then the i-boost came on to heat the water. Seems like a good job. Definitely recommend the installers. Very professional went through everything with me. Very pleased to say the least.

spose

banjolin wrote: »

Just going through this and saw your diy job. I put 5 micro systems in five off-grid cabins (1 panel, 1 battery, charger, inverter). Found it near impossible to get any useful information in Ireland, or anyone interested in supplying or installing them. So diy was the only option. Was thinking about a system for my own home. Where did you source your kit, if you don't mind me asking? What size is it? Like you I think diy makes more financial sense if access is easy.

Bought through the local electrical wholesaler. Not sure what the rules are on providing names but a google of solar PV wholesale cork should give it to you. It’s 16x 295W panels.

Prowetod

I have begun research into a future solar PV install in my home. I have a couple of questions if anyone has any experience they could share. I have a heat pump and am on a day/night ESB tariff. The bulk of the power demand in the house is from the heat pump and currently, most of that is early morning and evening time demand. I can bring forward the heat pump evening demand, to some extent, to conicide with the peak PV output.

Are there existing systems available to optimise the solar output and the battery charge/discharging? In an ideal world I would be able to use the night rate to fill the battery for use later during the morning peak demand, on the assumption that the batteries would be emptied in the evening time to meet the evening peak demand before night rate kicks in.
Has anyone implemented a solution that delivers what I am looking for?
I have a Daiken heat pump that I would like to setup to consume the excess PV when the battery is full - I presume this logic has to be built into the heat pump itself? How would it know if there is solar to consume.

In the short to medium term I expect to get an EV (soon after the PV install) - obviously integrating this new power demand with the solar would be great too.

Going to pull down a few numbers in terms of consumption (kWh and kWp), pv potential for various systems next. If anyone has any good resources would appreciate it.

bunderoon

spose wrote: »

Found this thread very informative for the last couple of months so said I’d share.
Just turned on my DIY install for the first time and nice to have a sunny day to check it out. Went for the max I could fit which was 4.7 E/W split with no battery and a diverter. Mounted on my steel shed so was able to do all myself except for the electrical connections. All in its cost me about €4200.
I went DIY because I couldn’t get a quote anywhere near that even after the grant.

Big job, fair play. Would you mind sharing a few pics of it?

banjolin

spose wrote: »

Found this thread very informative for the last couple of months so said I’d share.
Just turned on my DIY install for the first time and nice to have a sunny day to check it out. Went for the max I could fit which was 4.7 E/W split with no battery and a diverter. Mounted on my steel shed so was able to do all myself except for the electrical connections. All in its cost me about €4200.
I went DIY because I couldn’t get a quote anywhere near that even after the grant.

Just going through this and saw your diy job. I put 5 micro systems in five off-grid cabins (1 panel, 1 battery, charger, inverter). Found it near impossible to get any useful information in Ireland, or anyone interested in supplying or installing them. So diy was the only option. Was thinking about a system for my own home. Where did you source your kit, if you don't mind me asking? What size is it? Like you I think diy makes more financial sense if access is easy.

spose

Found this thread very informative for the last couple of months so said I’d share.
Just turned on my DIY install for the first time and nice to have a sunny day to check it out. Went for the max I could fit which was 4.7 E/W split with no battery and a diverter. Mounted on my steel shed so was able to do all myself except for the electrical connections. All in its cost me about €4200.
I went DIY because I couldn’t get a quote anywhere near that even after the grant.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

So most of the people in this thread spend money either not knowing it will never pay for itself or they don't expect a FIT any time soon or they do it despite it not making financial sense

I can only agree with you.

My guess is they believe the salesmen and don’t run the numbers for themselves.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

I dont think I'd go ahead with that extra battery for financial or environmental reasons. If a FiT comes in it would be ALOT more environmentally friendly to send the excess to the grid

Agreed again, but somehow nearly everyone in this thread is getting an immersion diverter. If we get a FIT, a diverter will also not have paid for itself by the time it is dead. And a battery is likely to last a lot longer (with some degradation) than a diverter will.

So most of the people in this thread spend money either not knowing it will never pay for itself or they don't expect a FIT any time soon or they do it despite it not making financial sense

unkel

KCross wrote: »

Dont you think thats a rather important detail to leave out when someone asks you if its a good deal and you say it is and that you think you'd go for it?

No issue with someone going ahead just for environmental reasons but you didnt say that!

Absolutely. Everybody spending a lot of money on any system should know what they can expect from in financially.

It is a good deal for one reason only and that is that he pays the same as buying the additional battery for the best retail price available and get the install done for free. So a professional install (including sign off) for the price of a DIY job

Payback calculation of the additional battery is probably fairly long and if we do get a FIT, it will be a lot longer again

From a ROI point of view, it would not make sense to go for the extra battery. I don't think I can be any clearer than that?

garo

I have a 4.8kW system split evenly E/W with a 2.4kWh battery. Having more charge/discharge capacity is definitely an advantage. On the other hand you won’t be able to charge the second battery most days from Nov-Feb.
It is debatable whether that second battery is greener. You are reducing your own footprint but producing the same amount of power sonot is a zero sum game.
And realistically speaking you won’t make the 1200 back for 15 years. Might as well wait and see if prices come down.

rx8

Yeah, they said that there's no problem adding another battery next year. Wait to see if I'm giving much power back to the grid over a period of a few months and re-assess. Will update next week on the whole installation process etc. and see if I can recommend them. Thanks guys for your help.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

Agree with you that the pay back over the extra €1200 will be quite long. I'd say thank you very much for the €3,800 subsidy and this €1,200 I will cough up as my own contribution to go greener, even if it will barely pay off.

Dont you think thats a rather important detail to leave out when someone asks you if its a good deal and you say it is and that you think you'd go for it?

No issue with someone going ahead just for environmental reasons but you didnt say that!

Regardless, I dont think I'd go ahead with that extra battery for financial or environmental reasons. If a FiT comes in it would be ALOT more environmentally friendly to send the excess to the grid than into a Li-ion battery and the environmental damage that that does to manufacture.

unkel

KCross wrote: »

And why havent you! Its great encouraging others to do it but you didnt yourself. :P:D

Because I already had my PV installed when the subsidy came in. If I had nothing I would have gone for a battery system with indeed the smallest battery as soon as the subsidy came in

Back then I did not appreciate though that with just a 2.2kWh low voltage (48V) battery you are severely limited in your charge / discharge rate

Agree with you that the pay back over the extra €1200 will be quite long. I'd say thank you very much for the €3,800 subsidy and this €1,200 I will cough up as my own contribution to go greener, even if it will barely pay off.

If I had known 3 years ago that the prices of PV panels would be slashed and that a generous PV subsdiy was coming in, I would not have gone solar thermal either

KCross

rx8 wrote: »

Just spoke with them, and they don't have a 3.5kwh battery available, but they would do another 2.4 for €1200 if I wanted to make it a 4
.8kwh system. I don't know how much batteries cost, is that a good deal? €7600 all in?

unkel wrote: »

I think I would go for it.

And why havent you! Its great encouraging others to do it but you didnt yourself. :P:D

I wouldnt go for it. You'll be a very long time breaking even on that €1200, if ever.

You are not getting any additional grant for that extra battery. It's money down the drain.

Your previous recommendation was to get the smallest battery possible to get the largest grant possible. Why are you saying otherwise now?

rx8, if you are happy with the current quote at 2.4kWh battery then go ahead with that and get your max grant.

If battery costs go down in the years ahead look at expanding then. You also need to see how the whole Feed-In-Tariff thing pans out which might make batteries irrelevant entirely. Keep that €1200 in your pocket.

unkel

€1200 extra is a decent deal, presuming that's including VAT. He's making very little money on that. Just his trade discount really as these retail for about €950 + VAT (solartricity) or GBP820 + VAT (midsummerwholesale.co.uk). Pylontech US2000, yeah?

Up to you whether you want to spend the extra money, but one of the big benefits of having 2 of them is that you can draw 2.5kW from them (or charge them at that speed), only half of that if you have just the one. I think I would go for it.

€7600 all in is a decent enough deal (from a good installer that you trust), but you can always ask them for another few hundred off

rx8

unkel wrote: »

I doubt he is asking for that little, double check! That would be below his cost and he wouldn't be charging VAT at that price, or anything for the install time for that matter

And ask about the other options I suggested too.

Just spoke with them, and they don't have a 3.5kwh battery available, but they would do another 2.4 for €1200 if I wanted to make it a 4
.8kwh system. I don't know how much batteries cost, is that a good deal? €7600 all in?

Alkers

rx8 wrote: »

. Met quite a few companies talking bullsh1t at the RDS last week. .

Absolutely, it was embarrassing, most of them were only setup to sell to people who hadn't a clue what they were talking about.

unkel

I doubt he is asking for that little, double check! That would be below his cost and he wouldn't be charging VAT at that price, or anything for the install time for that matter

And ask about the other options I suggested too.

rx8

I think he said about €700, but not 100% sure. The ease of dealing with them was the deciding factor. Met quite a few companies talking bullsh1t at the RDS last week. My guys do all the grant work and BER stuff and have 25 years experience of solar. Looking forward to it going in.

unkel

rx8 wrote: »

I'm getting a similar system installed on Monday next, 4.2kwp, diverter, 2.4kwh battery. Costing €6400 after grant. Have the option to double the battery to 5kwh... should I go this route to future-proof the system as I intend to get an EV in summer 2020.??

Batteries are expensive but are likely to come down in price over the next few years. And installing another one in a year or two is a very easy job

How much extra is he looking for to add another battery?

Presuming the battery is the Pylontech US2000 (2.4kWh), can you also ask him to quote for a Pylontech US3000 (3.5kWh)?