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The future of RTE Radio 1 LW

The Cush

Announced this morning - http://www.rte.ie/about/en/press-office/press-releases/2014/0923/645685-rte-radio-1-moves-from-longwave-transmission/

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/static/2014/0821/638554-stay-tuned/
http://static.rasset.ie/documents/radio1/rte-radio-1-staytuned.pdf

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silver2020

LW is costing money. The number of listeners is tiny and they don't bring any commercial return.

It would probably be easier for rte to agree a freesat & sky deal to have the channels on their uk platforms for the few who want to listen.

On DAB norway. They had only space for 5 national stations. So FM was turned off for any national broadcaster and FM is for the local stations. If it was repeated here RTE, Today FM & Newstalk would be DAB and all the plethora of local stations would be FM. So FM is very much alive and kicking in Norway and the switch of national stations to dab was due to issues of space

Zird

Mickey Mike wrote: »

Sorry, but I have to say this and I'll say no more
Norway have switched off FM but the transmission gear are still intacted, its only turned off with the option of switching FM back on again, it was definitely a bold move by Norway. Now back to LW 252.

Not much more that can be said about RTE LW 252 except who'd have thunk it 5 years ago that it would outlive RTE's dab network :eek:

Mickey Mike

Sorry, but I have to say this and I'll say no more
Norway have switched off FM but the transmission gear are still intacted, its only turned off with the option of switching FM back on again, it was definitely a bold move by Norway. Now back to LW 252.

galtee boy

Zird wrote: »

Yes but on the other hand Norway's neighbor Finland switched off DAB back in 2005 and never looked back.

Ok, DAB seems to be like Marmite , you either like it or not ! Anyway, we are going off topic here, this thread is supposed to be about LW.

Zird

galtee boy wrote: »

hasn't Norway switched off its FM ansd gone digital radio only

Yes but on the other hand Norway's neighbor Finland switched off DAB back in 2005 and never looked back.

galtee boy

Zird wrote: »

Dab was actually a slow burner in the UK, the first batch of commercial dab only stations went out of business after a couple of years. Infact the way uk dab was struggling in 00s was a reason why the
commercial industry here didn't proceed further with it in 2008.

Any new technology will be a slow burner in the early days, but DAB is huge in the UK now. At my brothers house in South West London area, a DAB scan on the radio brings up over 100 channels. Before anyone says it, yes, an awful lot of them are sh**e and I'm sure many of them will fail etc, but that's business/commerce at work. On another note, hasn't Norway switched off its FM and gone digital radio only, or am I mistaken ? And a country like Norway, must be a nightmare to cover geographically with DAB transmitters.

Mickey Mike

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

DAB is useless but it has the magic "D"-word which alone appears enough to fool many.

Compare DAB with FM on :

- Coverage
- Sound quality especially on marginal signal
- Number of transmitters required
- Cost / size / weight of receivers
- Power consumption / battery life of receivers

and let me know how you get on.

As for more stations, what's the point of that when the FM bands are full of identikit formulaic junk as it is, there isn't the advertising there to sustain anything even remotely niche.

I don't have DAB in Kerry, I've been waiting for its rollout nationwide for the last 10 years. I have the digital channels via Saorview where quality is excellent.

Zird

galtee boy wrote: »

How is it that DAB has flourished in the UK ? Population aside, surely it must have been very expensive to set up the amount of transmitters needed to give almost full UK wide coverage and yet, the BBC and the commercial stations embraced it with open arms. Admittedly, there were a lot of MW only stations in the UK, that benefitted from DAB, BBC Five Live being one example, I've been there and there is some difference between Five Live on MW ( where the signal is strong) and Five Live on DAB, crystal clear. Sure, the quality isn't HIFI on DAB, but for for the car or the kitchen radio, where 90% of radio listening is done, its perfect, how many people sit down in the sitting room, with a €1000 top of the range tuner and €1000 high quality speakers to listen to radio ? Unless it becomes an EU directive to switch off FM, we'll never see digital radio in Ireland now.

Dab was actually a slow burner in the UK, the first batch of commercial dab only stations went out of business after a couple of years. Infact the way uk dab was struggling in 00s was a reason why the
commercial industry here didn't proceed further with it in 2008.

Hotblack Desiato

galtee boy wrote: »

Admittedly, there were a lot of MW only stations in the UK, that benefitted from DAB

Which is irrelevant to the crazy idea of DAB replacing FM.

Sure, the quality isn't HIFI on DAB, but for for the car or the kitchen radio, where 90% of radio listening is done, its perfect, how many people sit down in the sitting room, with a €1000 top of the range tuner and €1000 high quality speakers to listen to radio ?

It's not just about crappy bitrate, it's what happens when the signal degrades.

Unless it becomes an EU directive to switch off FM, we'll never see digital radio in Ireland now.

Good.

[Deleted User]

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

DAB is useless but it has the magic "D"-word which alone appears enough to fool many.

Compare DAB with FM on :

- Coverage
- Sound quality especially on marginal signal
- Number of transmitters required
- Cost / size / weight of receivers
- Power consumption / battery life of receivers

and let me know how you get on.

As for more stations, what's the point of that when the FM bands are full of identikit formulaic junk as it is, there isn't the advertising there to sustain anything even remotely niche.

Agree 100% !

"Lets just go digital for the sake of it because digital is good, that's the mindset. "

Digital Radio offers absolutely nothing compared to digital TV.

[Deleted User]

JDxtra wrote: »

It's broadcast right now alongside the other RTE DAB stations. You'll see the two stations with a "+" at the end of the name.

My Radio does not pick up DAB + from Kippure and at that it's dodgy and I'm almost in Carlow.

I'd imagine if there was DAB+ it would show up but it doesn't and the radio can receive DAB+

galtee boy

How is it that DAB has flourished in the UK ? Population aside, surely it must have been very expensive to set up the amount of transmitters needed to give almost full UK wide coverage and yet, the BBC and the commercial stations embraced it with open arms. Admittedly, there were a lot of MW only stations in the UK, that benefitted from DAB, BBC Five Live being one example, I've been there and there is some difference between Five Live on MW ( where the signal is strong) and Five Live on DAB, crystal clear. Sure, the quality isn't HIFI on DAB, but for for the car or the kitchen radio, where 90% of radio listening is done, its perfect, how many people sit down in the sitting room, with a €1000 top of the range tuner and €1000 high quality speakers to listen to radio ? Unless it becomes an EU directive to switch off FM, we'll never see digital radio in Ireland now.

Hotblack Desiato

Mickey Mike wrote: »

I have always thought digital is the way forward, if it had to be, shut down trashy Long Wave and shut down the FM radio network and focus solely on Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB). The format is not been pushed. I never thought we'd be so backward.

DAB is useless but it has the magic "D"-word which alone appears enough to fool many.

Compare DAB with FM on :

- Coverage
- Sound quality especially on marginal signal
- Number of transmitters required
- Cost / size / weight of receivers
- Power consumption / battery life of receivers

and let me know how you get on.

As for more stations, what's the point of that when the FM bands are full of identikit formulaic junk as it is, there isn't the advertising there to sustain anything even remotely niche.

JDxtra

Deleted User wrote: »

Yeah where is dab + ?

It's broadcast right now alongside the other RTE DAB stations. You'll see the two stations with a "+" at the end of the name.

[Deleted User]

Mortelaro wrote: »

Dab offers nothing over FM ?
That's nonsense
It offers space for much more channels, room for which is not there on analogue fm especially in urban centres

Yes it does but to the Public it offers nothing, FM is full of crap stations, do we really need DAB full of more crap ?

Mortelaro

Dab offers nothing over FM ?
That's nonsense
It offers space for much more channels, room for which is not there on analogue fm especially in urban centres

[Deleted User]

Mickey Mike wrote: »

Do you think LW is good quality?

LW, the difference being it serves a purpose and doesn't pretend to be anything special like DAB.

DAB offers nothing over FM that's the difference.

[Deleted User]

JDxtra wrote: »

RTE Radio 1 and RTE 2fm are actually both also carried in DAB+ format (HE-AAC v2 codec) on the RTE MUX. Even at only 64k they sound amazing, shows the potential of that format.

Yeah where is dab + ?

Mickey Mike

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It doesn't matter, the quality is crap and so are RTE's internet streams and the majority of Irish radio stations.

RTE chose to use very low bitrates for their MP2 streams and that was fine in the early days.

Most countries that had DAB have gone to DAB+

There's no point pushing a digital service just because it's digital, especially if the sound quality is crap and there's no point forcing a service that has no benefit on the public.

Do you think LW is good quality?

[Deleted User]

L1011 wrote: »

MPEG 1 Layer II and MPEG 1 Layer III are not that different in age; or performance. Indeed Layer 2 is superior than Layer 3 at higher bitrates and is why it is used on DVDs and for stereo sound on digital TV through 4K even with Layer 3 having been long since available.

Layer 2 was first demonstrated in 1989 and Layer 3 in 1990

It doesn't matter, the quality is crap and so are RTE's internet streams and the majority of Irish radio stations.

RTE chose to use very low bitrates for their MP2 streams and that was fine in the early days.

Most countries that had DAB have gone to DAB+

There's no point pushing a digital service just because it's digital, especially if the sound quality is crap and there's no point forcing a service that has no benefit on the public.

JDxtra

RTE Radio 1 and RTE 2fm are actually both also carried in DAB+ format (HE-AAC v2 codec) on the RTE MUX. Even at only 64k they sound amazing, shows the potential of that format.

[Deleted User]

FSO_Polonez wrote: »

I don't think it's over just yet. I'd be interested to see just how much momentum the FreeDAB project can gather...

As regards the talk of Radio Nova taking over some of the DAB allocations, this I would welcome...

Sure they can try.

[Deleted User]

FSO_Polonez wrote: »

To be honest, I don't see why the religious programs can't be on FM. I may not exactly be the church's number-one fan, but that's not the point. After all, in the 2016 census, more than three-quarters of the population regarded themselves as Catholic, so it's not exactly as if the religious programs are only relevant to a tiny minority of people. Those who don't like it surely could find something else to listen to...

Yes I agree 100% and I've said this before.

FSO_Polonez

Deleted User wrote: »

I was happy to hear DAB is going because it offered absolutely nothing better to the Public over FM. It made no sense to keep it going and they use ancient Mp2 invented long before Mp3 for Heaven's sake. So glad to finally see the end of it.

I don't think it's over just yet. I'd be interested to see just how much momentum the FreeDAB project can gather...

As regards the talk of Radio Nova taking over some of the DAB allocations, this I would welcome...

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

and they use ancient Mp2 invented long before Mp3 for Heaven's sake.

MPEG 1 Layer II and MPEG 1 Layer III are not that different in age; or performance. Indeed Layer 2 is superior than Layer 3 at higher bitrates and is why it is used on DVDs and for stereo sound on digital TV through 4K even with Layer 3 having been long since available.

Layer 2 was first demonstrated in 1989 and Layer 3 in 1990

FSO_Polonez

Zird wrote: »

When R1 extra & Dab cease, good old-fashioned longwave will be the only way to listen to Sunday morning religious programs like it were 2004

To be honest, I don't see why the religious programs can't be on FM. I may not exactly be the church's number-one fan, but that's not the point. After all, in the 2016 census, more than three-quarters of the population regarded themselves as Catholic, so it's not exactly as if the religious programs are only relevant to a tiny minority of people. Those who don't like it surely could find something else to listen to...

[Deleted User]

Mickey Mike wrote: »

I am shocked and saddened with the forthcoming closure of the digital radio channels. This is a step backwards. I have always thought digital is the way forward, if it had to be, shut down trashy Long Wave and shut down the FM radio network and focus solely on Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB). The format is not been pushed. I never thought we'd be so backward.

DAB wasn't a step forward, it offered nothing, RTE thought by advertising "digital" it would attract a tonne of People but it didn't , yes they could just turn off FM but for what ? they national broadcaster in was it Sweden ? shut off FM and lost a tonne of listeners.

No other broadcasters in Ireland were interested in DAB either because why would they bother ? Who's going to pay for the infrastructure ?

Putting "digital" down in advertising doesn't really make much of an impact these days and without all the other radio stations on board it's never going to work.

Making a law to shut off FM won't work either, can't force digital on People who couldn't care less about it.

Digital has virtually no impact on people like HD TV so the interest is virtually 0.

I would like RTE to save Gold, it was one of their best stations, not plagued by the modern crap even RTE 1 are pushing more and more, not plagued by adds every few mins, News & weather every 30 mins to 1 hr repeat repeat repeat.

If RTE want to improve revenue then they need to improve content, the best platform in the world can make up for poor content in this day and age of streaming media, RTE are not the only Public broadcaster to be in difficulty.

The fact much more people were calling for the continuation of LW says a lot about DAB.....

It's about time Dee Forbes is sacked because she is sinking RTE.

Mickey Mike

I am shocked and saddened with the forthcoming closure of the digital radio channels. This is a step backwards. I have always thought digital is the way forward, if it had to be, shut down trashy Long Wave and shut down the FM radio network and focus solely on Digital Audio Broadcasting (DAB). The format is not been pushed. I never thought we'd be so backward.

[Deleted User]

I was happy to hear DAB is going because it offered absolutely nothing better to the Public over FM. It made no sense to keep it going and they use ancient Mp2 invented long before Mp3 for Heaven's sake. So glad to finally see the end of it.

LW well, it just does what it's intended to do and one transmitter v the many more that would be needed for DAB nationwide coverage.

JUst wish they would put RTE Gold on FM, just wish they kept 567 Khz going, I bet they regret it because you will find it hard to find a radio today with LW, of course , I mean in the likes of Currys who mostly sell DAB/FM not even MW.

Zird

When R1 extra & Dab cease, good old-fashioned longwave will be the only way to listen to Sunday morning religious programs like it were 2004