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NBP part II

oscarBravo

The old NBP thread had hit the 10,000-post threshold that makes the boards.ie hamsters cry, so here's a shiny new one.

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Johnboy1951

clohamon wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/microsoft-president-brad-smith-criticises-ireland-on-broadband-1.4074219

I hope someone pointed out to him that MS could donate €3 bn to the Irish Gov to do the roll out and MS would hardly miss it, and could expand in rural areas

KOR101

5th Nov in Dail...

Brendan Howlin

It was reported at the weekend that the Government plans to finally sign off on the national broadband plan next week after much delay and at six times the original cost. In response to a recent question in this House, the Taoiseach stated that the delay was due to a challenge by another broadband provider which has apparently contested the maps. The company in question, Imagine, recently denied this accusation, however, and stated that it merely made the Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment aware of the availability of its existing investment and its plans for further expansion. What exactly is the state of play? The named company warned as early as February this year, before the Government signed off on the controversial €3 billion plan, that proceeding with the current plan was an unnecessary State intervention and could lead to difficulties with state aid approval in the European Union. Despite this warning and much fanfare before the May elections, the Cabinet endorsed the €3 billion plan. Now it is reported that Imagine's existing services cover potentially 234,000 of the 540,000 premises that the new intervention was scheduled to cover. This raises two serious questions, on which I ask the Taoiseach for clarification. Has the Department revised the proposed intervention area and, if so, will the State subsidised plan headed by Granahan McCourt's private investment fund be entitled to yet more compensation? If no intervention is made and the area provided for in the plan is successfully challenged by a private operator, what are the financial implications for the Government breaching state aid rules? Reports suggest the figure could be up to €500 million. What is the Taoiseach's understanding of the matter?

Leo Varadkar

I thank the Deputies for their questions. The word "challenge" was not the correct term for me to use with respect to the national broadband plan. Imagine sought an extension and this caused a delay at that point. It wanted to use the extension to submit additional maps and so on. To the best of my knowledge, there has been no revision to the State intervention area. The national broadband plan is now with the European Commission, a required process in order to get state aid clearance. We look forward to a positive outcome and if we get that it will enable us to sign the contract before the end of the year and start connecting homes, businesses and farms to high-speed broadband next year all over rural Ireland. It is our objective.

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2019-11-05a.282&s=national+broadband+plan#g293

tototoe

Leo just on Newstalk there, sounds like Nov 12th is highly optimistic but only heard parts of it. Basically hoping to sign before the end of the year, but challenges to the intervention area etc.

Anyone hear the full clip?

EDIT : may be a recording of above?

celticbhoy27

"the national broadband plan is now with the European Commission, a required process in order to get state aid clearance. We look forward to a positive outcome and if we get that it will enable us to sign the contract before the end of the year"

Perhaps The 12th of this month was just a guess so. No guarantee when the commission will come back with their verdict

Mortelaro

So imagine asked that areas they're in be taken out of the intervention area and were rebuffed, is that correct?

KOR101

Mortelaro wrote: »

So imagine asked that areas they're in be taken out of the intervention area and were rebuffed, is that correct?

That's not the issue. We knew that would happen. What we don't know is whether Imagine will make a legal challenge in the European courts.

You would have to think that they must plan to do that, or otherwise why bother with a submission that was bound to fail. However, Imagine being Imagine, it could be just a bit of nonsense......here's hoping.

Marlow

Mortelaro wrote: »

So imagine asked that areas they're in be taken out of the intervention area and were rebuffed, is that correct?

No.

The Department asked the providers for updated data of current and near future rollout with specification, that it had to be within the specs of the original NBP requirements. Financial documentation on how to achieve the future rollout submitted would be achieved was also required.

A large number of operators, including Imagine submitted said data and the returned data .. especially in areas where 2 providers cover a premise ... has put the Department into a position where they would have to revise the map.

To counteract that and excuse the delays, Varadkar stated: " that the delay was due to a challenge by another broadband provider which has apparently contested the maps". Imagine made a counter statement, that called his bluff. And now he's in retracting and trying to wiggle himself out of that one.

On top of that, they are pushing dates for signing the contract, when they don't even know the outcome from the European Commission, are still in the process of aquiring redacted and maybe adjusted data from operators/providers and don't even know when the European Commission will deliver their verdict.

But hey ... everything is above the board.

/M

tototoe

Tbh I don't know why they ask Leo about this.everytime I hear him on the nbp he seems to have less of a clue, but probably to be expected from a man who claimed fibre doesn't run on poles, while the nbp will pay openeir for access to the same poles fibre doesn't run on. He hasn't a notion imo and to the best of his knowledge etc doesn't really cut it. If he knew what was going on, he'd know at least what isp's submitted coverage info.

Ultimanemo

Marlow wrote: »

No.

The Department asked the providers for updated data of current and near future rollout with specification, that it had to be within the specs of the original NBP requirements. Financial documentation on how to achieve the future rollout submitted would be achieved was also required.

A large number of operators, including Imagine submitted said data and the returned data .. especially in areas where 2 providers cover a premise ... has put the Department into a position where they would have to revise the map.

To counteract that and excuse the delays, Varadkar stated: " that the delay was due to a challenge by another broadband provider which has apparently contested the maps". Imagine made a counter statement, that called his bluff. And now he's in retracting and trying to wiggle himself out of that one.

On top of that, they are pushing dates for signing the contract, when they don't even know the outcome from the European Commission, are still in the process of aquiring redacted and maybe adjusted data from operators/providers and don't even know when the European Commission will deliver their verdict.

But hey ... everything is above the board.

/M

I think he is just kicking the can and staring at the next election

clohamon

FWIW.

"Communications Minister Richard Bruton has indicated that the contract, with David McCourt’s National Broadband Ireland, is imminent."

https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/without-rural-broadband-its-difficult-to-attract-new-jobs-microsoft-president-warns-ireland-38667906.html

Gary kk

Marlow wrote: »

On top of that, they are pushing dates for signing the contract, when they don't even know the outcome from the European Commission, are still in the process of aquiring redacted and maybe adjusted data from operators/providers and don't even know when the European Commission will deliver their verdict.

But hey ... everything is above the board.

/M

Sounds like your saying that wisp are sending incomplete data to slow down the process or fudge it.

Marlow

Gary kk wrote: »

Sounds like your saying that wisp are sending incomplete data to slow down the process or fudge it.

How did you come to that conclusion ? And this is for all providers, disregardless of tech. You really need to stop the bashing.

The issue is more, that the Department did the consultation with a timeframe, that was too short in regards to what the requirements are for doing such a consultation. There is a process they have to follow.

/M

BarryM

If and when they ever sign whatever when, if ever, will we get a plan for the rollout - NOT provided by the contractor? I mean will the Dept clarify which areas, even those with an existing supplier, will be included in the subsidy contract and when the Dept has specified that they will be connected?

Sounds complicated when I read it back, but what I am looking for is a detailed map of where the subsidised fibre will be offered?

allanpkr

stop the bashing lol.... the process was pushed through to fast lmao. 7 years ????any reason to try and stir the waters....becoming desperate in your comments M.

Marlow

BarryM wrote: »

If and when they ever sign whatever when, if ever, will we get a plan for the rollout - NOT provided by the contractor? I mean will the Dept clarify which areas, even those with an existing supplier, will be included in the subsidy contract and when the Dept has specified that they will be connected?

It will more than likely just be this map, which will be adjusted when the final premises are agreed on: https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/high-speed-broadband-map/Pages/Interactive-Map.aspx

/M

Pique

Marlow wrote: »

It will more than likely just be this map, which will be adjusted when the final premises are agreed on: https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/high-speed-broadband-map/Pages/Interactive-Map.aspx

/M

That seems to be based on an old version of OpenEir's https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/ map.
I noticed that the map on fibrerollout.ie has the same routes (marked in yellow) as the DCCAE map (marked in light blue).
However in my area once you zoom into OpenEir's map, there are lots of houses NOT on the yellow lines that DO actually have fibre connected.

Marlow

Pique wrote: »

That seems to be based on an old version of OpenEir's https://fibrerollout.ie/rollout-map/ map.
I noticed that the map on fibrerollout.ie has the same routes (marked in yellow) as the DCCAE map (marked in light blue).
However in my area once you zoom into OpenEir's map, there are lots of houses NOT on the yellow lines that DO actually have fibre connected.

It is out of date at this point, but it is more than likely the map they're going to update, when it comes to that time.

It is after all .. the NBP map.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

KN Circet tooling up in advance of the contract's signing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/telecoms-contractor-seeking-to-fill-400-jobs-1.4075503

The rollout of fibre optic national broadband plan allowing up to 1GB per second (sic) internet speed is crucial for the advancement of Irish telecoms, KN Circet are equipped and ready to facilitate this

Gary kk

Marlow wrote: »

How did you come to that conclusion ? And this is for all providers, disregardless of tech. You really need to stop the bashing.

/M

I simply don't trusts some of the wisp i believe they are capable of it. Hardly bashing.
Just while i have you which would be more light to give me a more stable conection at 8 p.m. fiber or fixed wireless.

Marlow

Gary kk wrote: »

Just while i have you which would be more light to give me a more stable conection at 8 p.m. fiber or fixed wireless.

That does not depend on the media you are connected with. It depends on the provider you are connected with and how well they manage their network.

Any operator can make a mess of any connection on any media. That question proves my point on the bashing.

/M

Gary kk

Marlow wrote: »

That does not depend on the media you are connected with. It depends on the provider you are connected with and how well they manage their network.

Any operator can make a mess of any connection on any media. That question proves my point on the bashing.

/M

No it's not a bashing it's a straight question that you can't give a straight answer.

Marlow

Gary kk wrote: »

No it's not a bashing it's a straight question that you can't give a straight answer.

I did. Read my first paragraph. You just did not like the answer. But it was the only correct and objective answer.

/M

Gary kk

Marlow wrote: »

I did. Read my first paragraph. You just did not like the answer. But it was the only correct and objective answer.

/M

Sorry lets try again.

So your telling me the avg wireless connection is as stable as the avg fiber connection.
If i pay for an up to150mb connection today am i more lightly to reach that with fiber or wireless at 8 p.m.

If there is any confusion with the question i can try again i don't always get my point across.

oscarBravo

In the absence of active moderation of the forum, I'll stick on my admin hat for a moment and ask people not to get personal. Disagreement is fine.

Gary kk

Yeah that's grand and all but if Marlow could answer the question i have asked that would be great

allanpkr

Gary kk wrote: »

Yeah that's grand and all but if Marlow could answer the question i have asked that would be great

he wont.

user1842

Gary kk wrote: »

Yeah that's grand and all but if Marlow could answer the question i have asked that would be great

This question has been asked and answered many times in the thread.

Can a wireless operator offer a stable high speed connection = Yes

Do many wireless operators offer a stable high speed connection = No

Enough with the personal attacks.

Gary kk

user1842 wrote: »

This question has been asked and answered many times in the thread.

Can a wireless operator offer a stable high speed connection = Yes

Do many wireless operators offer a stable high speed connection = No

Enough with the personal attacks.

All he had to do was answer the question.And it was a fair question to ask. I never called him any thing. I just asked a question.

Gary kk

Look this the nbp is for the next twenty five years so the tech chosen is what that's my kids your kids and maybe even grandchildren will be stuck with. So why should it not be the best available? Why would i not call out someone on promoting a tech that is just not equal to fiber?

I hope that gets my point across.

[Deleted User]

Gary kk wrote: »

Look this the nbp is for the next twenty five years so the tech chosen is what that's my kids your kids and maybe even grandchildren will be stuck with. So why should it not be the best available? Why would i not call out someone on promoting a tech that is just not equal to fiber?

I hope that gets my point across.

Because if you have vested interests in the alternative you're gonna want to sell that. This is the only reason the wireless providers have been making so much fuss, it's the only reason why Imagine have had articles written by their CEO in the indo, it's the only reason why they have ads on buses to advertise their next gen 5G that a few years later will be 6G.

It should have been telling when the 3 bidders to the NBP all opted for a primarily fibre network, it's the only capital investment that makes sense when we consider the bigger picture. But we'll still have misinformation from opposition TDs and stakeholders in wireless tech. Everyone here knows fibre offers the best solution because you can't even get good wireless tech without fibre (the mast my Imagine connection is from isn't even fed by fibre directly and is crippled at peak times on all networks) but giving that to everyone cuts the wireless people out of a lot of the profits so of course they're gonna bitch and try and stall the plan.

I know you agree I'm just expanding on the point.