Deleted User wrote: » As Scotland is part of the UK, and its the UK parliament that decides whether to implement a referendum that involves its potential break-up, I think Prime Minister Johnson would be right to jettison a new referendum.
Joe_ Public wrote: » In fairness i think on the basis of what he said ken clarke could not in all conscience vote for a johnson led tory party. They are clearly taking a very hard brexit position, refusing to rule out no deal. Can't see how he coukd be on board with that.
robinph wrote: » Not odd in the slightest. A vote was held about group A leaving club B which was itself a member of club C. Group A was told that would mean they would also leave club C if they left club B, so they decided not to leave after all. Since then club B have said they are leaving club C and taking group A with them whatever they think, so it's perfectly reasonable for group A to want to leave club B and rejoin club C which was far bigger and friendlier and didn't park their nuclear submarines in their back yard.
Letwin_Larry wrote: » the SNP are keen to break away from the Union, so that they can join another which seems odd.
Letwin_Larry wrote: » the SNP accuse the Brexiters of being English Nationalists, the words pot & kettle spring to mind.
Rjd2 wrote: » Not exactly an endorsement for sure, but definitely does not rule out voting for the party. I like many including Ken don't know if Boris will dial Brexit up to 11 next few weeks so we will have to wait and see. Clarke is another experienced media hand Boris could do with atm, people like him, Rudd etc going means the ERG are horribly over exposed.
robinph wrote: » Hang on, are you saying that the SNP are not Scottish Nationalists?
Enzokk wrote: » UK debt in 2010 when the Tories took over, £1,200 billion and 75% of GDP. UK debt in 2018 £1,800 billion and 85% of GDP. So in 9 years it it has gone up by £600 billion and gone from 75% of GDP to 85% of GDP. What has the UK have to show for it during the Tory governments? How many new hospitals? How is the Judiciary doing? Are schools any better than before? All this time of austerity and the debt has grown but services has been cut while Labour has said they would do the same but at least the country would have something to show for it. But its Labour that is living in denial.UK government debt and deficit: March 2019 Table 1: General government gross debt UK, financial year ending March 2011 to financial year ending March 2019 and calendar years 2010 to 2018 £ billion3 Financial Years 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13 2013/14 2014/15 2015/16 2016/17 2017/18 2018/191 Debt2 1,214.5 1,349.7 1,425.6 1,522.5 1,604.0 1,652.0 1,720.0 1,763.8 1,821.3 as % GDP 75.6 81.8 83.3 85.5 86.5 86.4 86.5 85.3 85.2 Calendar Years 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Debt2 1,194.3 1,328.8 1,424.8 1,499.8 1,604.8 1,666.0 1,731.4 1,786.1 1837.5 as % GDP 75.2 80.8 84.1 85.2 87.0 87.9 87.9 87.1 86.8 Source: Office for National Statistics Notes: 1. 2018/19 refers to the financial year ending March 2019. 2. Consolidated and at nominal values. 3. Unless otherwise stated.
Joe_ Public wrote: » True. I hadnt realised there were labour politicians (diane abbott, John mcdonnell) actually suggesting he had said it. That's wrong. I think his biggest problem will be the issue of johnson refusing to rule out a no deal brexit. Certainly dont see him ever been an enthusiastic backer anyway!
Letwin_Larry wrote: » btw Alastair Campbell just on SkyNews. and to say he wasn't exactly effusive in his praise/support of Mr. Corbyn is an understatement.
robinph wrote: » How about the Tories respecting the clearly undecisiveness of the most recent votes in the UK where there was a 50/50 result in a referendum with no clear question being asked, followed by an election where there was no majority of MP's elected from a single party. Yet apparently it is the will of the people for a hard Brexit to be just got on with? Surely if all the MP's in Scotland being from the SNP would be the clearest show of a definite opinion of the population going at the moment?
schmittel wrote: » It is widely reported that Austin left because of the antisemitism row. If antisemitism is "too Labour" then I think that would be surprising and significant!
schmittel wrote: » Re Ken Clarke, Amber Rudd, Philipp Hammond and the rest of the Tories who are retiring at the election as far as I can see they are leaving largely because they disagree with with party policy. It can be summarised as a move to the right. Whilst the number is high, this sort of stance and outcome is fairly normal I would have thought. As you discussed earlier, there has been a move to the left in the Labour party. For me the difference with the Labour party is that not only are they losing politicians because of a disagreement with this move but because some MPs feel the party is institutionally anti-semitic. Personally, I think it is a fairly significant difference.
LuckyLloyd wrote: » That’s the anti semitism row that will disappear like magic the moment Corbyn steps down? Ah yeah, genuine stuff no doubt. Ultimately his comments mean nothing - they’re not new or news.
The vast majority of British Jews consider Jeremy Corbyn to be an antisemite. In the most recent poll, last month, the figure was 87 per cent. Putting oneself in the shoes of another person, or another group, can be difficult. But we believe it is important — and urgent — that you do that. Perhaps the fact that nearly half (47 per cent) of the Jewish community said in that same poll that they would “seriously consider” emigrating if Mr Corbyn wins on December 12 will give you an indication of what it feels like to be a British Jew at a time when the official opposition is led by a man widely held to be an antisemite.
Letwin_Larry wrote: » my understanding is the Tories will borrow 10s of £billions (which is small change in the scheme of things), but Mr. McDonnell said in his speech he wanted to borrow 100s of £billions. that's a hell of a difference imo. socialism doesn't come cheap it seems. as for Brexit i agree there will be a short to mid-term hit, but we really have no way of knowing exactly how it will effect the UK economy in the long-term.
Deleted User wrote: » The Scottish referendum was settled in 2016.
As Scotland is part of the UK, and its the UK parliament that decides whether to implement a referendum that involves its potential break-up, I think Prime Minister Johnson would be right to jettison a new referendum.
Letwin_Larry wrote: » i really cannot for the life of me understand where i said that, or how you got that impression.
schmittel wrote: » I am not too sure of what the root cause of the row is so have no idea if it would disappear the moment Corbyn stood down. I daresay the suspicion of antisemitism would reduce if he someone replaced him and made tackling the accusations a key platform. As to Austin's comments, yes they're not new, but definitely newsworthy in an election campaign on the same day the Jewish Chronicle publishes a front page editorial pleading to non Jewish people:https://www.thejc.com/comment/leaders/to-all-our-fellow-british-citizens-1.491812
quokula wrote: » It's worth noting that the JC represents all Jews in the way that the Daily Mail represents all white people. A poll of their readers is not going to give an accurate result. Plenty of Jewish people see it very differently, for example the open letters published by Noam Chomsky and others here or another open letter signed by 200 Jewish peoplehere There are no doubt a number of Labour members who have shown anti-semitic behaviour out of the hundreds of thousands that make up the party, but if you're going to be calling it institutionally antisemitic, you should probably provide some evidence rather than just quoting a newspaper with a history of being found guilty of making false claims against Labour MPs.
schmittel wrote: » I am not too sure of what the root cause of the row is so have no idea if it would disappear the moment Corbyn stood down. I daresay the suspicion of antisemitism would reduce if he someone replaced him and made tackling the accusations a key platform.
boring accountant wrote: » I'm no supporter of Labour, but if Jeremy Corbyn is a racist then Margaret Thatcher was a socialist.
Deleted User wrote: » Not enough.Diane Abbott is the prospective future Home Secretary.John McDonnell is the prospective future Chancellor of the Exchequer.Jeremy Corbyn is the prospective future Prime Minister. Is this the future government we wish to see? I think not. Others have argued here that this issue was "done to death" in 2017. What was "done to death" was the victims of terrorist organizations that Corbyn, Abbot, and McDonnell quite openly endorsed or, at minimum, had sympathies with. We cannot let this issue be swept under the carpet of the forthcoming election. It says an awful lot about the potential future government. I understand that all politicians have personal flaws. The difference here is clear - these politicians are anti-UK in their past actions. That is unprecedented in UK history.
