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Specklepark cattle

squinn2912

Folks do any of you have experience with this breed? There seems to be a huge upsurge about them on social media and I’m curious. We’ve never had one. What have you found about them as opposed to angus or shorthorn etc?

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kollegeknight

squinn2912 wrote: »

Folks do any of you have experience with this breed? There seems to be a huge upsurge about them on social media and I’m curious. We’ve never had one. What have you found about them as opposed to angus or shorthorn etc?

They are a cross between shorthorn and AA. So the same size. So your weanling/carcass size will match.

It all depends on your land I’d say. I’ve a 2013 off a black limo and she performs as well as bigger cattle but she would live in your ear. She has what they call a spotted print. Her daughter off a limo is a white pointed colour but her calves don’t over perform as she has very little milk. And I will be offloading her for that reason.

Very easy calving and great temperament. I have never had to pull a calf off them.

Our land is seriously heavy and wet. I am looking into expanding into the breed if I can get a sale for them. I bought two heifers off a dairy herd and are in calf to the stock bull.
My reasoning is both the land and they are easily kept.

What is your land situation or what would motivate you to consider the breed?

I’m no expert and can only comment on what I have experienced. I will go through the books when I get a chance and can post weights and age.

What motivates me for the breed or that of an Irish moiled is, I can’t compete at the mart with charolais cattle as land is too bad and unless I’ve red limos, I make very little. So I want to try something different and will sell online or within a small network of breeders.

Sheep breeder

They are in Ireland a while now having being brought in from Canada by a few fellas in cork, as a well known breeder once said they are like the tide they come in and they then go out again. Very little to offer.

kollegeknight

Sheep breeder wrote: »

They are in Ireland a while now having being brought in from Canada by a few fellas in cork, as a well known breeder once said they are like the tide they come in and they then go out again. Very little to offer.

I dunno about very little to offer. It depends on your setup. on my land a charolais would die and the land suffer.
A limousin performs well and in no matter the year, there isn’t a dent in my speckle park. That’s not to say a shorthorn wouldnt do as well.

We had a 800kg angus cow that would eat all around her on her 5th calf, a pure bully too. And the second calver SP.
both calved the same week to the same bull and happened to have a red limo bull calf each. The sP calf was about 3 or 4 kg heavier and both weanlings matched and went together in the ring.

When I’m low on silage, I put the speckle parks out to the bog and they survive well.

Again I’ll say a shorthorn might do the same.

lab man

kollegeknight wrote:

They are a cross between shorthorn and AA. So the same size. So your weanling/carcass size will match.

sen a programme on them on TV a few years ago they came from Italy with the Roman's to England the proper one will have black socks black nose and black ears , have one here that we. ought thinking she was a b blue but twas a parkie, we have had crossed with sims or blues since the blues is a good cross. they ideal for the parttime working man I think, serious for milk too

Albert Johnson

squinn2912 wrote: »

Folks do any of you have experience with this breed? There seems to be a huge upsurge about them on social media and I’m curious. We’ve never had one. What have you found about them as opposed to angus or shorthorn etc?

They've become increasingly popular in recent years particularly as a beef sire to the dairy herd. Having taken a quick look at the ancestry of the breed they seem to be the result of a 3 way cross between Angus and Shorthorn as well as another breed. Using AA/SH cross cows isn't anything revolutionary, blue grey's, Murray Grey ect are all examples of this cross in different countries.

Most of Speckle park cattle that I've encountered have been crosses out of the dairy herd and there nothing exceptional imo. There similar to a lot of AAx out of the dairy herd in recent years in that generally there small, narrow framed stock with little power and scope. The only difference I see is in coat colour and apart from that I see little advantage over other traditional beef sires particularly on more extreme type dairy cows.

Perhaps if using them as pure breds or on beef breed cows they may show more promise as beef animals. However like all niche breeds you'd need to have access to a definite end market as opposed to competing with more popular breeds at the mart. With the way beef farming is going they may have something to offer as a suckler cow but if you're used of R grade continental cows producing U grade weanlings it will require a change in mindset.

kollegeknight

lab man wrote: »

sen a programme on them on TV a few years ago they came from Italy with the Roman's to England the proper one will have black socks black nose and black ears , have one here that we. ought thinking she was a b blue but twas a parkie, we have had crossed with sims or blues since the blues is a good cross. they ideal for the parttime working man I think, serious for milk too

Are you thinking of the white park cattle based in England?

AFAIK a Canadian woman bought some roan shorthorns and crossed them with her pb AA in the 60s.
The park name came from the similarities in appearance to the white park.

lab man

kollegeknight wrote:

Are you thinking of the white park cattle based in England?

you could be on the ball alright there kollage

Base price

kollegeknight wrote: »

Are you thinking of the white park cattle based in England?

AFAIK a Canadian woman bought some roan shorthorns and crossed them with her pb AA in the 60s.
The park name came from the similarities in appearance to the white park.

I think a bull in the Táin was a white park or is reputed to be.

squinn2912

Thanks for the information lads you’re like an interactive google!! They look really nice but I think if I’m going that direction I’ll go shorthorn. Ground more rocky here odd wet bit that suits store cattle more so. I asked the ai man had he much takers for them and he laughed me out of it!
In our area you’d get very few aubrac, parthanese, blonde or anything out of the ordinary. I wonder is it commonly a northern thing

Albert Johnson

squinn2912 wrote: »

Thanks for the information lads you’re like an interactive google!! They look really nice but I think if I’m going that direction I’ll go shorthorn. Ground more rocky here odd wet bit that suits store cattle more so. I asked the ai man had he much takers for them and he laughed me out of it!
In our area you’d get very few aubrac, parthanese, blonde or anything out of the ordinary. I wonder is it commonly a northern thing

I don't know is it solely a northern thing as I see it around here too. LMx is the most popular and the majority of cattle are a handful of breed's (LMx, CHx, SIMx, SHx, AAx ect). Yes you'll see other but there definitely in the minority and usually they don't sell as well as established breeds despite being of similar quality. From what I see if you want to top the live trade than CHx are the only breed but this doesn't suit everyone or everywhere. Rare or rarer breeds have there place but it requires a different mindset to make them a success imo.

I'd second your decision on the Shorthorns, there a reasonably hardy low maintenance type cow that still has commercial appeal. Any nice SHx heifers will be in demand for breeding, the SHx bull calves have a commercial value and you can cross a terminal bull on the cows and have a saleable calf of any type. I often wonder how many French farmer's use Irish Moiled or Dexter bulls rather than there own native breeds. The French and other europeans developed breeds to suit there needs and yet we're dead set on using the same stock that are totally unsuitable for this country at the expense of our own breeds.

kollegeknight

I would echo the above. I do like the breed and it does perform well for me so far compared to the poorer/middling limoX. I have a neighbour with pedigree shorthorn, I was thinking of approaching to have a chat. He does it for interest more than profit. I would be in a similar boat- once it’s not loss making, I’m ok with trying other breeds.

I am in the process of emailing the Irish moiled association. My thinking was if I were to change breed, why not consider a conservation breed. I reckon others think I’m mad but a lot think I’m crazy for evening trying to farm the bad land we have and not planting it.

What part of the country are you in?

kollegeknight

Image 1: 2013 SP off black limx with bull calf off stock limo bull may 14th this year
Image 2: same animals October 2nd this year
Image 3: limX heifer calf off heifer belonging to 2013SP and stock bull April 3rd 2018
Image 4: limx heifer off 2013sp June 2nd (I think)
Image 5: March 30th 2019- both of previous images sold off farm for €750

kollegeknight

Image 6&7:same cow with heifer calf off previous limo bull. April 2017
Image 8: same set up July 29th 2017
Image 9: same animal march 30th 2019- sold for €1000 off farm. (I regretted that one)

kollegeknight

Image 10: two yearling SP heifers off dairy herd- I paid €500 each and are currently in calf with stock limo bull.
Image 11: limoX bull calf off same cow born 27/3/16- sold 25/10/16 @283kg for €680

I know prices might not seem great but inline and at times better than my limoX cattle.

The two dairy SP cover me for BGDP scheme.

Albert Johnson

There some nice stock kollege, there way ahead of the examples I see out of dairy cows. I'd reckon they'd cross well a SH or Irish Moiled bull and there'd be a market for nicely marked replacement heifers. You might lose out a bit on the bull calves but the cows should be easier ran. I think I've mentioned organic farming to you before but I think you'd be an ideal candidate for it.

squinn2912

kollegeknight wrote: »

I would echo the above. I do like the breed and it does perform well for me so far compared to the poorer/middling limoX. I have a neighbour with pedigree shorthorn, I was thinking of approaching to have a chat. He does it for interest more than profit. I would be in a similar boat- once it’s not loss making, I’m ok with trying other breeds.

I am in the process of emailing the Irish moiled association. My thinking was if I were to change breed, why not consider a conservation breed. I reckon others think I’m mad but a lot think I’m crazy for evening trying to farm the bad land we have and not planting it.

What part of the country are you in?

I’m in Armagh. You?

Why do the SP tend to outdo the lims do you think?

I was on a farm walk of one of the better farms in FJ last week and he’s got AA, Lim (for years) and recently bought a stabilizer bull. That st bull was the humpiest looking lad I’ve ever seen. His figures are meant to be excellent for finishing so maybe the SP is effective this way too?

squinn2912

Albert Johnson wrote: »

There some nice stock kollege, there way ahead of the examples I see out of dairy cows. I'd reckon they'd cross well a SH or Irish Moiled bull and there'd be a market for nicely marked replacement heifers. You might lose out a bit on the bull calves but the cows should be easier ran. I think I've mentioned organic farming to you before but I think you'd be an ideal candidate for it.

Very nice stock that really bloom in the before/after pics. Weight gain maybe is slow with them but they are nice cattle thanks for showing them

kollegeknight

squinn2912 wrote: »

I’m in Armagh. You?

Why do the SP tend to outdo the lims do you think?

I was on a farm walk of one of the better farms in FJ last week and he’s got AA, Lim (for years) and recently bought a stabilizer bull. That st bull was the humpiest looking lad I’ve ever seen. His figures are meant to be excellent for finishing so maybe the SP is effective this way too?

I’m in west Clare. Well it’s one speckle park matching the limos- some of the limos are poor in milk and others have odd colouring including black and brown Swiss.

When my dad got sick, we had to sell all the best performing animals to help out so we were left with poorish animals. Plus I can only feed grass and silage while the farm in mams name.

My vet suggested a stabilizer to me. He said you would have to be finishing them yourself as they wouldn’t make a penny in ennis Mart. I don’t have skill set for finishing atm.

Irish moiled is a strong breed around you. If you ever get to the ulster folk museum, they have lovely examples of them.

Albert Johnson

squinn2912 wrote: »

I’m in Armagh. You?

Why do the SP tend to outdo the lims do you think?

I was on a farm walk of one of the better farms in FJ last week and he’s got AA, Lim (for years) and recently bought a stabilizer bull. That st bull was the humpiest looking lad I’ve ever seen. His figures are meant to be excellent for finishing so maybe the SP is effective this way too?

The stabilisers were marketed as the "next big thing" a few years ago but they've never really got established at least locally. I only know of one herd running a ST bull and there weanlings are average to say the least. There basically a middling red AA from what I can see and not suited to the live trade, in fact I've often said if they were off an AA bull at least they might qualify for the bonus at slaughter. As with most niche breeds you'd need a definite end market or be prepared to take less in the mart.

kollegeknight

Albert Johnson wrote: »

There some nice stock kollege, there way ahead of the examples I see out of dairy cows. I'd reckon they'd cross well a SH or Irish Moiled bull and there'd be a market for nicely marked replacement heifers. You might lose out a bit on the bull calves but the cows should be easier ran. I think I've mentioned organic farming to you before but I think you'd be an ideal candidate for it.

Most of that stock are from the same cow.

The speckle limo bull weanling will be the litmus test in spring. I make nothing from black limos so can compare with that.

Yeah, I’m thinking the same. I just need to get over the next few years at home with nappies and hopefully will have land in my name by then.

Dad used to love experimenting with breeds. That 2013SP cow is my wives, a heifer went missing after a tb test and when we found her, she was throwing that calf up into the air trying to kill her. Dad and myself carried her a cross the bog, the OH,(then my gf) dad and myself spent a week bonding them.
Even if she wasn’t in calf, she would be got back in calf.

squinn2912

kollegeknight wrote: »

I’m in west Clare. Well it’s one speckle park matching the limos- some of the limos are poor in milk and others have odd colouring including black and brown Swiss.

When my dad got sick, we had to sell all the best performing animals to help out so we were left with poorish animals. Plus I can only feed grass and silage while the farm in mams name.

My vet suggested a stabilizer to me. He said you would have to be finishing them yourself as they wouldn’t make a penny in ennis Mart. I don’t have skill set for finishing atm.

Irish moiled is a strong breed around you. If you ever get to the ulster folk museum, they have lovely examples of them.

That’s sad about your father I’m sure it’s nice that you continue to innovate with breeds etc. There’s no easy way. It’s hard to find easy calving yet valuable breeding. Then there’s the ground to consider more for you.

I’d say from the talk of you that you’d be no time acquiring those skills! But finishing on small scale is a tough gig. Factories have you.

Yes I’ve seen the moiled cattle and they’re nice to look at but rare round here too. I could go to marts for ten weeks and there wouldn’t be one

Agree with AJ on stabiliser. A fad and not a great one

lalababa

Down my way anything that's not red limo, charolais , BB or maybe Sim, no matter what quality, are at an immediate disadvantage at the Mart. Anything black even black limo are down 20/30%. Anything with spots or freckles 30/40/50%. Haven't seen a Whitehead in years.
The only market for anything different from the top 4 is specialist hobby breeding and even that can be poor and small.
If I had anything bar the top 4 , I'd be finishing them in some fashion, no matter how ****e my land was. Cos all those red lims and Chs are just going to end up in the same place as the cheaper breeds.

50HX

Have used wro bull in the past to aax off dairy herd

Calves were small but Hardy

Kept the best heifer, bred her and unfortunately lost the first calf off her at calving...

Took too long to get her back in calf so fattening her up

They seem to have a nice temprament

From a distance some local lads thought they were blues

squinn2912

lalababa wrote: »

Down my way anything that's not red limo, charolais , BB or maybe Sim, no matter what quality, are at an immediate disadvantage at the Mart. Anything black even black limo are down 20/30%. Anything with spots or freckles 30/40/50%. Haven't seen a Whitehead in years.
The only market for anything different from the top 4 is specialist hobby breeding and even that can be poor and small.
If I had anything bar the top 4 , I'd be finishing them in some fashion, no matter how ****e my land was. Cos all those red lims and Chs are just going to end up in the same place as the cheaper breeds.

I think you cut the crap and are talking straight. You need to decide what you want; breeding traits or mart. If you’re mart you need to be in those top 4 breeds and you could well half that again to ch/lim. What I like here is that you have options from weanling, store or fat and also have a full value to cows

Otherwise you can sell bulling heifers and there’s a decent gig there too. Bull calves likely better factoried if you can get a fair go

Ard_MC

kollegeknight wrote: »

Image 10: two yearling SP heifers off dairy herd- I paid €500 each and are currently in calf with stock limo bull.
Image 11: limoX bull calf off same cow born 27/3/16- sold 25/10/16 @283kg for €680

I know prices might not seem great but inline and at times better than my limoX cattle.

The two dairy SP cover me for BGDP scheme.

Lovely stock