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Leinster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread XI (The Finals Countdown)

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https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057895346&page=249

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Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If he is good enough then he will take the role, if not then Tomane will take it

Not extending a players contract just so you can let the local guy on the squad is not the answer. The local guy should step up and warrant his selection

Tomane will take it regardless of whether O'Loughlin is good enough or not. It's very clear that Tomane will get selected even if he's playing poorly and his competition is playing well. He was in the 23 jumper for the opening game against Wasps last season despite the fact that ROL had been outperforming him. And when he returned from his injury lay-off he was straight back in ahead of Conor O'Brien, despite the disparity in performance quality between the two of them.

Podge_irl

I don’t think Leinster are short of money. If Munster can sign DeAllende we can sign basically anyone. It’s obviously a deliberate approach which is fine for the most part. But Tomane is just a bit bang average (bang average for a multi Capped international I should add, he’s obviously very good in general). I’m fine with Leinster keeping him, just find it a bit uninspiring.

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Rory O'Loughlin should love the challenge.....he should see an international player and he is up against him for a position in the team.....win that challenge and next step is international caps

if the answer is not to bring in better players because it might hurt the feelings of some of the home grown players then we won't be winning any trophy's soon.....

You could find more established (and therefore more likely to be picked by coaches) players than a whole host of emerging homegrown players if you went out and looked for them. Ronan Kelleher, Penny, Doris, Harry Byrne and Baird could all be replaced if you scoured Australia, NZ, SA and Fiji.

You could make a similar argument for Mathewson and Craig Casey (except Casey wouldn't be as ready for gametime as COB). Would you be in favour of Munster extending Mathewson's deal?

Can't see O'Loughlin getting more caps regardless of what happen with Tomane. He'd really need to be starting in Europe to be challenging for international honours. It was Lowe coming in that put paid to his chances with Ireland. He got capped in 2017 on the back of starting games on the left wing in Europe, but that's dried up now. I wonder would a NZ team seek to sign someone if they had a freshly capped All Black on their hands - or would they want to back him and see where he could get to?

Shefwedfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

I have no problem with a senior, old head around who can slot into multiple positions. Just think Leinster could probably do better than Tomane. He’s grand like, but while he may be in the same role as Isa he is not in the same league quality wise.

How many Isa's are knocking around? the market has changed so harder for Leinster to find gems like Isa.

The money in France/England means Leinster need to box clever which they have done so far with the likes of Tomane/Fardy/Lowe etc

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I thought you were arguing that Tomane should be extended because he's a good fit for the 23 jumper in the first team. I was putting forward the case that ROL has similar versatility, and could fulfil that role.

If he is good enough then he will take the role, if not then Tomane will take it

Not extending a players contract just so you can let the local guy on the squad is not the answer. The local guy should step up and warrant his selection

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

rory o loughlin isnt being kept from game time???

he has played 5 out of 5 games so far this season, only 30 min short of 400 full minutes.

if hes good enough to take that position from Tomane then isnt it great so see him get the opportunity to do it?

I thought you were arguing that Tomane should be extended because he's a good fit for the 23 jumper in the first team. I was putting forward the case that ROL has similar versatility, and could fulfil that role.

Podge_irl

I have no problem with a senior, old head around who can slot into multiple positions. Just think Leinster could probably do better than Tomane. He’s grand like, but while he may be in the same role as Isa he is not in the same league quality wise.

Shefwedfan

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

What about Rory O'Loughlin for that role?

Rory O'Loughlin should love the challenge.....he should see an international player and he is up against him for a position in the team.....win that challenge and next step is international caps

if the answer is not to bring in better players because it might hurt the feelings of some of the home grown players then we won't be winning any trophy's soon.....

Shefwedfan

Tomane is also a person who took on the Isa role of experienced professional during the Ireland camps. Yes we have lots of great young backs but an experienced guy in the middle will be a great help!!!

sydthebeat

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

What about Rory O'Loughlin for that role?

rory o loughlin isnt being kept from game time???

he has played 5 out of 5 games so far this season, only 30 min short of 400 full minutes.

if hes good enough to take that position from Tomane then isnt it great so see him get the opportunity to do it?

Richie_Rich89

sydthebeat wrote: »

tomane covers pretty much everything from 11 to 14..... he is perfect for a utility back spot on the bench in europe

What about Rory O'Loughlin for that role?

sydthebeat

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I am definitely not a Joe Tomane detractor nor do I think we should keep him on.

Don't get me wrong. I like him a lot. I think he's got a very good attitude and has been playing very good rugby. I have defended him consistently when others have scapegoated him.

But there are the questions of Tommy O'Brien, Gavin Mullin, Conor O'Brien and possibly Ciaran Frawley and David Hawkshaw.

They are all viable options at 12. Is there sufficient game time for them while Tomane is in situ?

tomane covers pretty much everything from 11 to 14..... he is perfect for a utility back spot on the bench in europe

molloyjh

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

I am definitely not a Joe Tomane detractor nor do I think we should keep him on.

Don't get me wrong. I like him a lot. I think he's got a very good attitude and has been playing very good rugby. I have defended him consistently when others have scapegoated him.

But there are the questions of Tommy O'Brien, Gavin Mullin, Conor O'Brien and possibly Ciaran Frawley and David Hawkshaw.

They are all viable options at 12. Is there sufficient game time for them while Tomane is in situ?

If they show theres no need to Tomane then he won't be retained. But Leinster have to think about the short term games as well as the longer term development. If Tomane is needed to better ensure we are successful then he'll be retained.

arsebiscuits1

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Tomane was ok last season but some “supporters” gave him a hard time. Has been excellent so far this season....should be kept on

I am definitely not a Joe Tomane detractor nor do I think we should keep him on.

Don't get me wrong. I like him a lot. I think he's got a very good attitude and has been playing very good rugby. I have defended him consistently when others have scapegoated him.

But there are the questions of Tommy O'Brien, Gavin Mullin, Conor O'Brien and possibly Ciaran Frawley and David Hawkshaw.

They are all viable options at 12. Is there sufficient game time for them while Tomane is in situ?

Shefwedfan

kingofthekong wrote: »

Agree with keeping Fardy but Tomane is surplus to requirements - doesnt offer anything that O'brien doesnt...would prefer to see O'Brien getting the gametime he deserves it.

Would use Tomanes spot to be filled with a brute of a ball carrier for when we inevitably meet Sarancens this season would love: A.Savea, Squire, S.Cane, Vermuelen (basically anyione in the springboks or All blacks) wont happen but can dream lol

Tomane was ok last season but some “supporters” gave him a hard time. Has been excellent so far this season....should be kept on

molloyjh

kingofthekong wrote: »

Agree with keeping Fardy but Tomane is surplus to requirements - doesnt offer anything that O'brien doesnt...would prefer to see O'Brien getting the gametime he deserves it.

Would use Tomanes spot to be filled with a brute of a ball carrier for when we inevitably meet Sarancens this season would love: A.Savea, Squire, S.Cane, Vermuelen (basically anyione in the springboks or All blacks) wont happen but can dream lol

Have you missed every game this season then? Because Tomane has been excellent. COB went fairly well against Dragons but nowhere near good enough to trouble Tomane.

kingofthekong

Shefwedfan wrote: »

With Lowe, Fardy and Tomane Leinster have a full quota. I expect Fardy to leave at end of season and Lowe to be Irish qualified which means we would have two spots open. I hope Tomane stays for another few seasons.

I still think we need a Fardy type second row player to teach the young second rows the dark arts. Give them a view of the World outside Ireland, Toner should be still knocking around.

Will be interesting to see who they sign

Agree with keeping Fardy but Tomane is surplus to requirements - doesnt offer anything that O'brien doesnt...would prefer to see O'Brien getting the gametime he deserves it.

Would use Tomanes spot to be filled with a brute of a ball carrier for when we inevitably meet Sarancens this season would love: A.Savea, Squire, S.Cane, Vermuelen (basically anyione in the springboks or All blacks) wont happen but can dream lol

molloyjh

awec wrote: »

That'll be 3 NIQ locks in a row for Leinster...

While at the same time providing Toner and Ryan to the national team and developing guys like Baird, Charlie Ryan and Dowling. Be grand.

Buer

I hope we trust our areas of strength in the next year or two. We've a glut of highly rated locks coming through alongside the already established figures of Molony, Toner and Ryan. Absolutely no need for a NIQ lock to replace Fardy. Toner will be stepping back from test rugby so Ryan will be the only one unavailable.

We continue to be relatively comfortable at centre and halfback looks solid enough for the next couple of seasons. There's a case for a back three player, arguably. Kearney and McFadden are close to retirement, Daly and Byrne are injured a significant portion of each season it would seem and I don't think Kelleher is near the required standard. We're likely to lose Lowe and Larmour to test duty next season also.

Prop is the other position that is potentially going to require support (assuming Kelleher continues the way he's going at hooker). Healy is 33 next season. Furlong and Porter are embedded within the Irish 23. Bent will be 34. I wasn't surprised to see guys like Milne and Aungier getting game time so far this season as Cullen is probably keenly aware of the need to develop some props now.

I really don't want us to sign guys for the sake of it though. If players come through and are going well, I'd rather go with them and keep a NIQ spot in our pocket (although there is undoubtedly a sense of use it or lose it about the NIQ spots).

arsebiscuits1

Clegg wrote: »

Snyman to Munster as well, according to Cian Tracey on the Indo. It'll be interesting to see how the other provinces build their squads in the future. Ulster are crying out for a brute of a forward far more than Munster are.

I can see Leinster holding off signing any foreign players and using the academy instead, unless a huge name becomes available like Fardy did a few years ago. At the minute we're churning out a lot of quality and I've high hopes for Baird, Dunne, Kelleher and the like.

Yeah Coetzee is just too light and soft :pac:

Richie_Rich89

Shefwedfan wrote: »

With Lowe, Fardy and Tomane Leinster have a full quota. I expect Fardy to leave at end of season and Lowe to be Irish qualified which means we would have two spots open. I hope Tomane stays for another few seasons.

I still think we need a Fardy type second row player to teach the young second rows the dark arts. Give them a view of the World outside Ireland, Toner should be still knocking around.

Will be interesting to see who they sign

If they do extend on Tomane, I'd say Conor O'Brien should look for the exit door. If he went down to New Zealand and the Crusaders, he could be qualified for a black shirt in little more than 5 years.

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Yeah. I mean in the same vein that it's now going to be 3 NIQ centres for Munster with De Allende (after Saili and Taute) or Ulster with Williams, Coetzee and Deysel (albeit the last is a weak example).

Ahh but it’s not fair because........well it’s just not fair

Squidgy Black

awec wrote: »

That'll be 3 NIQ locks in a row for Leinster...

Yeah. I mean in the same vein that it's now going to be 3 NIQ centres for Munster with De Allende (after Saili and Taute) or Ulster with Williams, Coetzee and Deysel (albeit the last is a weak example).

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Nah he signed a 2 year deal originally and a one year extension.

Besides we all know that rule only applies to Ulster.

Another year woudnt be a terrible signing for Leinster

awec

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Leone Nakarawa please Santy.

A month ago we'd have killed for a decent NIQ hooker, but with Kelleher's performances so far I'm more than happy to keep things the way they are with Cronin on the bench and give Kelleher a good few more starts.

Second row we currently have Ryan, Toner, Molony, Baird, Dunne and Charlie Ryan in the academy. Dev's contract is up this summer, if he doesn't renew and Fardy isn't extended or retires, then I think we'll have to go NIQ as we need that experience. The young lads show great potential and could be the real deal, but Molony being the most experienced lock in the side at 25 would be a concern.

That'll be 3 NIQ locks in a row for Leinster...

Squidgy Black

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Fardy not on his 3rd contract now? its the rule he cant get another after 3?

Nah he signed a 2 year deal originally and a one year extension.

Besides we all know that rule only applies to Ulster.

Shefwedfan

Fardy not on his 3rd contract now? its the rule he cant get another after 3?

Squidgy Black

Leone Nakarawa please Santy.

A month ago we'd have killed for a decent NIQ hooker, but with Kelleher's performances so far I'm more than happy to keep things the way they are with Cronin on the bench and give Kelleher a good few more starts.

Second row we currently have Ryan, Toner, Molony, Baird, Dunne and Charlie Ryan in the academy. Dev's contract is up this summer, if he doesn't renew and Fardy isn't extended or retires, then I think we'll have to go NIQ as we need that experience. The young lads show great potential and could be the real deal, but Molony being the most experienced lock in the side at 25 would be a concern.

Shefwedfan

With Lowe, Fardy and Tomane Leinster have a full quota. I expect Fardy to leave at end of season and Lowe to be Irish qualified which means we would have two spots open. I hope Tomane stays for another few seasons.

I still think we need a Fardy type second row player to teach the young second rows the dark arts. Give them a view of the World outside Ireland, Toner should be still knocking around.

Will be interesting to see who they sign

Clegg

Snyman to Munster as well, according to Cian Tracey on the Indo. It'll be interesting to see how the other provinces build their squads in the future. Ulster are crying out for a brute of a forward far more than Munster are.

I can see Leinster holding off signing any foreign players and using the academy instead, unless a huge name becomes available like Fardy did a few years ago. At the minute we're churning out a lot of quality and I've high hopes for Baird, Dunne, Kelleher and the like.