Imreoir2 wrote: » I would somewhat disagree with you there, compare the map of Europe in 1910 to the map of Europe today. The trend over the last few hundred years is for greater self determination and the break-up of large empires. We are a product of this process ourselves, and the UK may be about to enter a period of further fracturing into smaller constitutiant parts. That is one of the best features of the EU if you ask me. It allows small nations to have their independance, to express their self-determination, while still enjoying the benefits of belonging to a larger polity.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » The USA, all it's states, have common language, cultural tradition, economic philosophy and goals. This binds the country together in patriotism and achieving.
CelticRambler wrote: » You're looking at it too short-termly! Bannasidhe was referring to a longer historic pattern - something I came face-to-face with in the last fortnight, stomping through the territories of Savoie and Dauphiné, with a gaze cast towards Piedmont in the distance bouncing off the enclave of Orange (as in house of King Billy). Eventually they all decided to row in behind the King of France ... except for Piedmont which was left for the Italians ... but then the lads from Savoie borrowed a bit of Italy as a kind of retail therapy, which is why they still speak French there on the wrong side of the Alps in the north of that country.
CelticRambler wrote: » If you seriously believe that, you need to review your understanding of the USA. And if you don't believe that different European states (<-- yes, states, like the Irish State) have a very long, very deep shared cultural and linguistic traditions, you haven't been paying attention in school. To keep things vaguely Brexit related: English language : largely a mixture of Germanic, Franco-Latin and Scandinavian vocabulary Royal Family: related to the royal families of Prussia, Belgium, Spain, Denmark, Greece Official English Religion: Anglicanism, an off-shoot of Catholic Christianity, imported from Italy All those cathedrals - built according to the instructions of continental architects, who trained English architects who then built similar edifices on the Continent Hyde Park - served as the inspiration for the creation of the Bois de Boulogne And, of course, The War (both of them) - possibly the Greatest British Obsession, fought almost entirely on French, German, Dutch, Italian and Austrian soil. I don't know where you hang out at weekends or where you go on your holidays, but anyone who travels around Europe with their eyes open can see the traces of 2000 years of shared cultural and economic heritage. You cannot argue the same for the US of A, which didn't have a shared anything until the Europeans crossed the Atlantic and took their petty disputes with them.
CelticRambler wrote: » If you seriously believe that, you need to review your understanding of the USA. And if you don't believe that different European states (<-- yes, states, like the Irish State) have a very long, very deep shared cultural and linguistic traditions, you haven't been paying attention in school. To keep things vaguely Brexit related: English language : largely a mixture of Germanic, Franco-Latin and Scandinavian vocabulary Royal Family: related to the royal families of Prussia, Belgium, Spain, Denmark, Greece Official English Religion: Anglicanism, an off-shoot of Catholic Christianity, imported from Italy All those cathedrals - built according to the instructions of continental architects, who trained English architects who then built similar edifices on the Continent Hyde Park - served as the inspiration for the creation of the Bois de BoulogneAnd, of course, The War (both of them) - possibly the Greatest British Obsession, fought almost entirely on French, German, Dutch, Italian and Austrian soil. I don't know where you hang out at weekends or where you go on your holidays, but anyone who travels around Europe with their eyes open can see the traces of 2000 years of shared cultural and economic heritage. You cannot argue the same for the US of A, which didn't have a shared anything until the Europeans crossed the Atlantic and took their petty disputes with them.
Irish Praetorian wrote: » Do I smell an EU4/CK2 player?
Imreoir2 wrote: » Not sure how much choice was involved in most cases. I think you are looking at it in the wrong way, the history of Europe in recent centuries is a painfull process of emerging nationalism. In some parts of Europe nationalism ment the collection of territories into a larger whole, Germany and Italy being the prime examples. In other parts of Europe, nationalism ment breaking down larger multi-ethnic entities into smaller nation-states. The UK, the Austrian Empire and the Russian Empire are examples of this. The conflict and tension caused by these different forms of nationalism has defined the history of Europe over the last three hundred years. The bloodletting it unleashed accross Europe is part of the context for the creation of the EU, a place beyond nationalism, where your nationalism and mine can co-exist peacefully.
Bannasidhe wrote: » Not to mention the amount of land still owned by the descents of Norman invaders who were, themselves, of mainly Norse decent. Even the Daily Mail had published an article stating that the way to get ahead in England is to be 'Norman' not Anglo-Saxon.
CelticRambler wrote: » If we're following this mixed heritage thing to bitter end, before Eskimo gets back, can I point out (if it needs to be done) that Ireland's most revered patron saint was a Welshman of Anglo-Norman descent who studied a Roman religion in a Burgundian school before returning to the land that would eventually adopt him as one of their own. If we have to reject all things non-Irish in favour of a Brave New Brexit-like World, I suppose that'll be the end of the Parade ...
Strazdas wrote: » GB went to war in WW1 to aid neutral Belgium and in WW2 because of their pact with neutral Poland. The English nationalists / Brexiteers would have told them all to eff off and refused to help anyone.
Imreoir2 wrote: » I would somewhat disagree with you there, compare the map of Europe in 1910 to the map of Europe today. The trend over the last few hundred years is for greater self determination and the break-up of large empires. We are a product of this process ourselves, and the UK may be about to enter a period of further fracturing into smaller constitutiant parts.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » I'm currently enjoying trying to begin learning where to start figuring out EU4.
jimmycrackcorm wrote: » There was a great distaste in the USA to get involved in WW2 until they got attacked. Whatever about the supposed 'special relationship', I would not bet on Trump coming to the aid of the UK in a time of war. The US or NATO didn't get involved in the Falklands war and the US told the brits that they were on there own more recently in the gulf when it comes to protecting shipping.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » The USA is a country, a nation - the EU isn't.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » The USA, all it's states, have common language, cultural tradition, economic philosophy and goals. This binds the country together in patriotism and achieving. Europe has very little of this. Economically what has Ireland in common with France? Socially what has Ireland in common with Slovakia? Culturally what has Ireland in common with Greece?
CelticRambler wrote: Johnson on Sky/Sophie Ridge in the last half-hour: same old, same old - Corbyn is the Big Bad Wolf, vote for Johnson's oven-ready Brexit and we'll be out by January, and Magic Money For All. Delivered in a fast-flowing stream of soundbitey words and phrases that bear little relationship to the question asked. Oh, and he can't think of anything naughty he's ever done that wouldn't cost him political capital.
Wanderer78 wrote: » ...and he ll probably get it over the line in the end, you d be surprised at the amount of voters that believe his nonsense
Professor Moriarty wrote: Nigel giving a very good interview on Marr. Intends to campaign up and down the country and in every constituency. Charasmatic and espousing a clear and singular message. Should do serious damage to the Tories. Go Nigel.
kowloon wrote: » Getting pissed off with the new DLCs being released every 10 minutes. Would prefer one bigger release that works well.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » The Irish government is hoping for a Johnson win according to this mornings papers. They know anything else will see the prospect of a hard land border re emerge.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Not how Paradox works I'm afraid though they're probably done with it for now. This makes no sense. Labour have promised a People's Vote which is much better for Ireland.
Wanderer78 wrote: » So Nigel has done a great job for British democracy?
Professor Moriarty wrote: Not yet but intends to. A true patriot.
theological wrote: » What happens if the British people vote to leave again? Will you support honouring it after the second time? Or will it be best of three?
The second referendum lot have only thought about the scenario where it is overturned but not the scenario where the British people vote for it again. I expect the same type of screeching about the result we see now. The people who want a second referendum see the problem as being the democratic decision of the people. The people who want an election see the problem as being a parliament who object to implementing the referendum result from 2016.
The problem is that there is a parliamentary logjam that needs to be cleared. Even if there was a second referendum that wouldn't be cleared you'd still have the parliamentary stalemate. This election is the people's vote. Hopefully people will see sense and vote conclusively for an outcome. The current polls are looking this way.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » Nigel giving a very good interview on Marr. Intends to campaign up and down the country and in every constituency. Charasmatic and espousing a clear and singular message. Should do serious damage to the Tories. Go Nigel.
CelticRambler wrote: » Johnson on Sky/Sophie Ridge in the last half-hour: same old, same old - Corbyn is the Big Bad Wolf, vote for Johnson's oven-ready Brexit and we'll be out by January, and Magic Money For All. Delivered in a fast-flowing stream of soundbitey words and phrases that bear little relationship to the question asked. Oh, and he can't think of anything naughty he's ever done that wouldn't cost him political capital. :rolleyes: It only been a few days, but I can't help thinking Johnson is going to be progressively destroyed by the other parties if he sticks so rigidly to his handler-approved talking points. It seems like his comfort zone does not extend beyond the safety of a carefully crafted newspaper article: when he's faced with a reactive interviewer or audience, he cannot go off-script without looking hopelessly lost and incompetent.Side note: is it just me/my browser or has the rewind option disappeared from the Sky live stream?
