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JRPG general discussion

Retr0gamer

Hmm let's see how a thread like this works.

Anyway for the first post I'd like to let people know that ATB podcast with its host Kat Bailey is back on 1up. The first episode might be Western RPG focused but the podcast is well worth a listen.

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megaten

I'm way too far behind on Atelier but word of mouth seems very good. Apparently there's been a big step up in terms of character writing. Though since I never played the mysterious games I don't know how bad it got.
Haven't seen any reviews yet though.

Retr0gamer

megaten wrote: »

I'm way too far behind on Atelier but word of mouth seems very good. Apparently there's been a big step up in terms of character writing. Though since I never played the mysterious games I don't know how bad it got.
Haven't seen any reviews yet though.

Mainstream media totally ignoring the series again it seems :mad:

Yet they'll give the Ni No Kuni remaster a stellar review.

RobbingBandit

Doesn't look like anyone stocking Atelier for Switch in Dublin tomorrow is the release day.

megaten

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Mainstream media totally ignoring the series again it seems :mad:

Yet they'll give the Ni No Kuni remaster a stellar review.

There doesn't seem to be any at all so I'd say they didn't get pre-release copies.

Retr0gamer

There's some playstation and Switch reviews but not many. I haven't seen the series being reviewed by many sites since the Rorona rerelease which somehow managed to get good coverage??

PostWoke

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Mainstream media totally ignoring the series again it seems :mad:

Yet they'll give the Ni No Kuni remaster a stellar review.

lmao

That's because ~ugu~animu~ugu is creepy, but Ghibli's work doesn't sexualize minors.

Retr0gamer

PostWoke wrote: »

lmao

That's because ~ugu~animu~ugu is creepy, but Ghibli's work doesn't sexualize minors.

It's more Ni No Kuni is a pile of poo. Atelier actually has some very strong and well written protagonists. In comparison to the awful ni no kuni.

Anyway ni no kuni has nothing to do with Ghibli other than the art which explains why its so bad.

PostWoke

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's more Ni No Kuni is a pile of poo.

Ni no Kuni is popular because it's a pile of poo? Huh. Interesting theory.

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Anyway ni no kuni has nothing to do with Ghibli other than the art which explains why its so bad.

... you think Ghibli would be good game designers, despite the fact they've never done it before? Compared to the seasoned devs who did develop it?

The art style is very relevant. People associate the ~ugu~ style with creepy **** now, so they know to stay away. It's also cheaply done and cookie cutter. Whereas there's always something interesting to look at when the art is done by Ghibli.

[Deleted User]

PostWoke wrote: »

lmao

That's because ~ugu~animu~ugu is creepy, but Ghibli's work doesn't sexualize minors.

Totally agree... just have a look at the two art styles. Every female character in Atelier Ryza has comically large breasts, high heels and short skirts. The gameplay could be good but I'm embarrassed to play games with this kind of stuff in it. It's definitely a negative in my book.

Retr0gamer

Popularity doesn't mean a game is good. There's no correlation there. I rember when rise of the robots was number 1 in the charts for weeks.

Ni no kuni is bad because it got good reviews from bad reviewers in publications that ignored better games that had advanced the genre in more interesting ways. It's bad just like octopath traveller and bravely default but because they capture the mainstream press they get coverage and that coverage comes from people not keeping up with current Japanese rpgs.

As for ghibli I think they would have made a much more engaging story and narrative than Level 5s Hino did. Hino is a god awful writer and continues that trend with ni no kuni. As for the game design ni no kuni is a distillation of everything bad with level 5 games. Outside of their dragon quest games were they were being directed by armour project they haven't made a good rpg in years. Level 5 are technically talented buy they need a creative lead to take charge as their in house designers have just put out really bad games.

PostWoke

Deleted User wrote: »

Totally agree... just have a look at the two art styles. Every female character in Atelier Ryza has comically large breasts, high heels and short skirts. The gameplay could be good but I'm embarrassed to play games with this kind of stuff in it. It's definitely a negative in my book.

My face just starts involuntarily contorting, can't enjoy that sh1te.

Then people call you a prude because they think this is a regular and healthy interest in that side of life but it very much ain't.

Spending a few years in Japan was eye opening and a let down; I don't think they're ever coming back from it, I think we're done getting games like the PSOne Final Fantasies (literally all of them included in that). Decent creators with decent stories to tell are now funnelled into working on cheap tat like this or if they're lucky, nonsensical projects like current day Squeenix projects like FFXIII, FFXV, Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts. Even DQXI has that puff puff cringe in abundance. Not saying those games don't have their good parts. Metal Gear is dead, Silent Hill is dead. Sad times for Japan.

Maybe Phil Fish was right *shudder*

Retr0gamer

Dragon Quest was always a bit skeevy, Metal Gear is even worse again.

The skeevy anime games are a result of the console market shrinking in Japan. It's like the anime industry there, they have to appeal to a much smaller market to survive and that dedicated market is unfortunately dominated by perverts so you get some to a lot of fan service and smut.

The atelier developer Gust is guilty of that, they make those games to fund the main Atelier series which, while not totally free of it, is a lot more mature than their other games. It's a pity their games get labelled like that as the Atelier series is usually excellent with some very mature and moving storytelling. Stuff like Totori, Ayesha and Escher and Logy and genuinely amazing games narratively.

As for games as good as PS1 final fantasy games, there's still plenty of games as good as and much better than those games just they get ignored by the press and hence never get the coverage they deserve and get ignored. It leads to false statements just like yours. There's plenty of amazing JRPGs such as pretty much everything from Atlus.

You then get complete thrash like Octopath and Ni no Kuni held up as saviours of a genre that doesn't need saving.

noodler

DQXI is one of the best games I've ever played.

The puff puff thing in that game is actually never what you think it is.

And it's also about 0.00001% of the game.

Lament present day JRPG quality all you want but that game is a masterpiece imo.

skerry

noodler wrote: »

DQXI is one of the best games I've ever played.

The puff puff thing in that game is actually never what you think it is.

And it's also about 0.00001% of the game.

Lament present day JRPG quality all you want but that game is a masterpiece imo.

I'm actively putting off starting this cos I know its gonna gobble up the next 100 hours of my gaming time and I have a few games I want to get to first. It's sitting under the TV calling out to me.

Retr0gamer

skerry wrote: »

I'm actively putting off starting this cos I know its gonna gobble up the next 100 hours of my gaming time and I have a few games I want to get to first. It's sitting under the TV calling out to me.

All those other games you want to play?

It's probably better than them.

It's one of those 100+ hour games that just breezes past instead of feeling like a waste of your time 15 hours in.

There's also one puff-puff joke in every game. And they are usually funny and rip on the fact that people expect them to be skeevy. Ref: Dragon Quest 8's hilarious easter egg. To be put off by it is to make ignorant preconceptions.

skerry

Retr0gamer wrote: »

All those other games you want to play?

It's probably better than them.

It's one of those 100+ hour games that just breezes past instead of feeling like a waste of your time 15 hours in.

There's also one puff-puff joke in every game. And they are usually funny and rip on the fact that people expect them to be skeevy. Ref: Dragon Quest 8's hilarious easter egg. To be put off by it is to make ignorant preconceptions.

I have no doubt I'm going to enjoy it. Took a lot to hold off on buying it on PS4 before the Switch release. I'm a good bit into Outer Worlds so definitely going to finish that off. Have Links Awakening waiting and Astral Chain too. Need to stop buying Switch games

megaten

I do intend on giving DQ 11 a go but thinking back on the others I've played the ones I've really enjoyed are DQ1 and 4. I don't think the extreme games length actually suits DQ despite that being the norm since probably 7.

Retr0gamer

Well DQ11 only becomes massively enjoyable in the post credit section. Its a bit too easy before that. I set up the draconian modifiers to make the game more challenging on the switch.

noodler

megaten wrote: »

I do intend on giving DQ 11 a go but thinking back on the others I've played the ones I've really enjoyed are DQ1 and 4. I don't think the extreme games length actually suits DQ despite that being the norm since probably 7.

I'd argue it's class up until the end of act 2 (still about 80 hours for me) but the third (and really, optional tbh, act can drag).

PostWoke

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Metal Gear is even worse again.

Well Retro, it's a Halloween miracle, because we found something we agree on. Kojima is a genius and auteur, but also a creep far too often.

noodler wrote: »

DQXI is one of the best games I've ever played.

The puff puff thing in that game is actually never what you think it is.

And it's also about 0.00001% of the game.

Lament present day JRPG quality all you want but that game is a masterpiece imo.

It's always what we think it is, but agreed, it's not near enough reason to skip this highly praised game and somewhat easy to ignore outside of a few cutscenes. I don't think anyone is comparing DQXI to Xeno 2.

noodler

PostWoke wrote: »

Well Retro, it's a Halloween miracle, because we found something we agree on. Kojima is a genius and auteur, but also a creep far too often.

It's always what we think it is, but agreed, it's not near enough reason to skip this highly praised game and somewhat easy to ignore outside of a few cutscenes. I don't think anyone is comparing DQXI to Xeno 2.

It's never what you think it is.

Not in DQXI anyway.

PostWoke

noodler wrote: »

It's never what you think it is.

Not in DQXI anyway.

It is, hence the fade to black. They even show two slimes on either side of a characters head, or is that VIII? Either way it hasn't suddenly changed.

noodler

PostWoke wrote: »

It is, hence the fade to black. They even show two slimes on either side of a characters head, or is that VIII? Either way it hasn't suddenly changed.

Play the game.

Stop assuming

Retr0gamer

PostWoke wrote: »

It is, hence the fade to black. They even show two slimes on either side of a characters head, or is that VIII? Either way it hasn't suddenly changed.

PostWoke

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Exactly.

It is what it's supposed to infer to. Always has been. You don't get to say 'that's what it was before, but it's not now' because it fades to black.

It will always be the same inference and attempt at creepy humour.

Retr0gamer

So put a lot more time into Atelier Ryza and I'm really enjoying it.

Firstly the game is very linear, unlike other Atelier games. There's plenty of side stuff to do but the main quest is a straight line to the finish. I heard complaints that the game doesn't tell you where to go to advance the story but that's rubbish. There's no map way points but the quest log pretty much spells out what you need to do. Without the time limit the game is even more relaxing.

The games is gorgeous, the new engine works a lot better than the previous one which had lots of issues on PC. This works like a charm and it's the best looking game Gust have put out.

Storywise, it's yet to really get going but I do love the plucky kids wanting to go on an adventure vibe. And just like other Atelier games, it surprisingly handles adult themes quite well. Lent in particular is a fantastic character and him dealing with his alcoholic father is pretty dark at times. Ryza as well is a gem and one of the best protagonists in the series.

Synthesis is totally changed and while it seems complex at the start it does make sense quickly and gives you more control over items and traits, even if its not as freeform as in other Atelier games as the possible traits are predetermined for an item.

The battle system actually feels more like Xenoblade than Grandia to me. You can interrupt attacks but you can carry out attacks that your companions call for to get free attacks and status effects. The battle system is fun but it's a little messy with it being just a bit too fast and having a bit too many options. It's probably the area that needs the most refinement.

Sephiroth_dude

Another here really enjoying atelier ryza, retro how do you items in battle ?

Retr0gamer

I've been using items as core items. You have to equip the items to each character and you've a certain number of uses until you sleep again. Doing it that way doesn't expend items. Not really figured out if you can use them directly from the basket either. I'll have to check that out.

Retr0gamer

Some nice quality of life stuff in there as well. You can check where to pick up items. Also the gems system later let's you convert all your low quality crap from the beginning of the game in something useful.

Cina

Hmm, looks like Atelier Ryza is becoming a MustBuyza.