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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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Former Former

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Unless Farrell goes down and says “your my starting 9 this 6 nations” I would expect him to leave and take a big pay day

He'd be starting out as second choice at Saracens. I doubt he'd be seeing much of a massive salary bump to be honest.

ClanofLams

Bridge93 wrote: »

I don’t want this to sound like an attack on marmion as it’s not, I think he’s a very good player and I’d have brought him to Japan. The Connacht fans may be able to shed light on if there are other reasons behind it but why is he second choice at Connacht? Has Caolan Blade not overtaken him so far this year? Talk that he’s miles ahead of McGrath and one of the top scrum halves around really doesn’t tally with what’s going on. He’s been dropped by Ireland by people who see far more of them than we do, and appears to have been dropped by Connacht. I’d fully understand if he looked to take the money. And it’d be a shame but Ireland and Connacht move on.

Blade incidentally must be working is way into contention for at worst extended squads. He’s getting better and better

Marmion started last weekend ahead of Blade. I think Marmion had only one week of training with squad done before first game so Friend wasn’t going to parachute him in after Blade had done full pre season.

No doubt it’s tight between the two but I think Marmion is still no.1, next few weeks will tell the story there.

ClanofLams

Former Former wrote: »

He'd be starting out as second choice at Saracens. I doubt he'd be seeing much of a massive salary bump to be honest.

Spencer is a good player but Marmion would give him plenty of competition and think he would win the starting battle eventually. Don’t think he would be being signed as no.2 really, don’t think Marmion would move if that was the case, think it will be more of a case of it being ‘we want two top scrum halves and a genuine competition for the no.9 jersey’.

Would be very surprised if it wasn’t a significant salary bump.

Faugheen

shootermacg wrote: »

Marmion is one of thew top scrum halves around. Absolute travesty that they left him behind for Luke McGrath who isn't anywhere near his level. You can't really blame him for deciding to take care of himself.

There is nothing between Marmion and McGrath and this has been the case since they played u20s.

Shefwedfan

Former Former wrote: »

He'd be starting out as second choice at Saracens. I doubt he'd be seeing much of a massive salary bump to be honest.

Saracens play a lot of games per year. Like Leinster they seem to rotate 9's. He will see a lot of game time and would probably back himself to take the starting jersey....

I have no idea what he is on but I very much doubt he is thinking about moving and staying on the same wages.

Also, he moves to a club and has a fairly high percentage of winning both the premiership and the HC......

Shefwedfan

I think everyone should listen to Fla on this podcast if you haven't already heard it.....finally someone who is making a bit of sense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5deM...qvAUALzUISjBhq

Go to 49 mins

Clegg

Rugby Australia has confirmed the date sand times for the two test tour to Australia. It's the 4th of July and the 11th of July. Big test for both sides who are in transition. Best is gone and I imagine we'll be phasing out 3 or 4 more senior players. Australia will definitely be without Pocock, Genia, Folau etc.

July is also very late in the summer too. So those players won't be there for the start of the regular season.

EachSmallChime

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I think everyone should listen to Fla on this podcast if you haven't already heard it.....finally someone who is making a bit of sense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5deM...qvAUALzUISjBhq

Go to 49 mins

Could you repost this link or the name of the video? Not working for me

part time punk

Clegg wrote: »

Rugby Australia has confirmed the date sand times for the two test tour to Australia. It's the 4th of July and the 11th of July. Big test for both sides who are in transition. Best is gone and I imagine we'll be phasing out 3 or 4 more senior players. Australia will definitely be without Pocock, Genia, Folau etc.

July is also very late in the summer too. So those players won't be there for the start of the regular season.

Is that a bit unusual seeing as we toured there in 2018?

WeleaseWoderick

part time punk wrote: »

Is that a bit unusual seeing as we toured there in 2018?

Yes, definitely seems very soon. Would have thought NZ would be next in line for our next summer tour as we haven't played there since 2012 i.e. Schmidt's team never played them in New Zealand

Clegg

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Yes, definitely seems very soon. Would have thought NZ would be next in line for our next summer tour as we haven't played there since 2012 i.e. Schmidt's team never played them in New Zealand

Ireland have a test series in New Zealand in 2022. Wish it could have been during Schmidt's tenure, but it wasn't to be.

The Lost Sheep

WeleaseWoderick wrote: »

Yes, definitely seems very soon. Would have thought NZ would be next in line for our next summer tour as we haven't played there since 2012 i.e. Schmidt's team never played them in New Zealand

world rugby had set a tour schedule starting in 2012 and we knew from then that we wouldnt be touring in New Zealand for long while after that. Next year is earlier than that schedule had us travelling to New Zealand as that originally had us not going there until 2024 Iirc

ionadnapóca

Clegg wrote: »

Rugby Australia has confirmed the date sand times for the two test tour to Australia. It's the 4th of July and the 11th of July. Big test for both sides who are in transition. Best is gone and I imagine we'll be phasing out 3 or 4 more senior players. Australia will definitely be without Pocock, Genia, Folau etc.

July is also very late in the summer too. So those players won't be there for the start of the regular season.

Good opportunity for both sides to blood new players.

Would love Farrell to look at playing two distributers.
Like the idea of Lowry at 15
Although I think Larmour is made for FB

& more depth in the specialist positions
9 JGP, Craig Casey
8 Doris
2 Kelleher, Rhys Marshall
3 ?

AbusesToilets

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

world rugby had set a tour schedule starting in 2012 and we knew from then that we wouldnt be touring in New Zealand for long while after that. Next year is earlier than that schedule had us travelling to New Zealand as that originally had us not going there until 2024 Iirc

Was there any reason given for such a long gap? Seems odd to be touring Aus twice in the interim.

bilston

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Good opportunity for both sides to blood new players.

Would love Farrell to look at playing two distributers.
Like the idea of Lowry at 15
Although I think Larmour is made for FB

& more depth in the specialist positions
9 JGP, Craig Casey
8 Doris
2 Kelleher, Rhys Marshall
3 ?

Think I had read that we might be playing Fiji as well on that tour so plenty of opportunity to blood players.

So expect minimal changes in the 6Ns and more radical change in the summer. But ultimately it will be the summer of 2021 when the Lions are away when we may see most new players blooded. That's what happened in 2017 with Stockdale, Ryan, Porter and later that year Larmour. Carbery came in a bit before the 2017 tour but did start one of the games in 2017, I think Jackson was still about then.

The Lost Sheep

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Was there any reason given for such a long gap? Seems odd to be touring Aus twice in the interim.

I dont think so. Just was how schedule was made up. Hopefully when next schedule is put in place we have more games for Japan and islanders and Georgia's etc

Henry Ford III

Faugheen wrote: »

There is nothing between Marmion and McGrath and this has been the case since they played u20s.

Matter of opinion. I think Marmion is a better player. McGrath was poxed lucky to make the RWC

Shefwedfan

EachSmallChime wrote: »

Could you repost this link or the name of the video? Not working for me

House of Rugby, Baz and Andrew....latest episode and 49 mins in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5deMLb7dQpc&list=PLqNkY83t8W0ECjqcQqkqvAUALzUISjBhq

The Rape of Lucretia

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Matter of opinion. I think Marmion is a better player. McGrath was poxed lucky to make the RWC

Its splitting hairs. They are much of a muchness. Adequate. Both reasonable ERC level players, and just about able to squeek in as international level a stopgaps, but not of the level one would consider a strength for a competitive international team.

Former Former

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Saracens play a lot of games per year. Like Leinster they seem to rotate 9's. He will see a lot of game time and would probably back himself to take the starting jersey....

I have no idea what he is on but I very much doubt he is thinking about moving and staying on the same wages.

Also, he moves to a club and has a fairly high percentage of winning both the premiership and the HC......

Yeah it's probably the last one.

I don't doubt that he'd back himself to compete with Spencer but he wouldn't be signed as a starter and a squad player at an English club isn't going to be earning much more than a starter at an Irish province who's involved in the national setup.

Most likely, he'll end up staying and this is just the usual kite flying.

Zzippy

Bridge93 wrote: »

I don’t want this to sound like an attack on marmion as it’s not, I think he’s a very good player and I’d have brought him to Japan. The Connacht fans may be able to shed light on if there are other reasons behind it but why is he second choice at Connacht? Has Caolan Blade not overtaken him so far this year? Talk that he’s miles ahead of McGrath and one of the top scrum halves around really doesn’t tally with what’s going on. He’s been dropped by Ireland by people who see far more of them than we do, and appears to have been dropped by Connacht. I’d fully understand if he looked to take the money. And it’d be a shame but Ireland and Connacht move on.

Blade incidentally must be working is way into contention for at worst extended squads. He’s getting better and better

Marion missed pre season with Connacht so Blade got the nod for the first games. He played very well so would be harsh to take the jersey off him. Marmion back starting now and playing very well too. Both pushing each other and great to have that quality. If Blade continues to improve he will definitely be in training squads.

AbusesToilets

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont think so. Just was how schedule was made up. Hopefully when next schedule is put in place we have more games for Japan and islanders and Georgia's etc

I wish the SH teams would do traditional tours up here as well. I enjoy the 2 or 3 game format far more than a the usual Nov series. Would help make playing those teams a more unique and exciting prospect imo.

Clegg

I wouldn't be one bit surprised if we see Ronan Kelleher or Scott Penny in Ireland squads over the next 18 months. Its very early into the new season and most provincial sides and playing 2nd and 3rd string. But these two players are a cut above the rest.

Hands Like Flippers

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Saracens play a lot of games per year. Like Leinster they seem to rotate 9's. He will see a lot of game time and would probably back himself to take the starting jersey....

I have no idea what he is on but I very much doubt he is thinking about moving and staying on the same wages.

Also, he moves to a club and has a fairly high percentage of winning both the premiership and the HC......

What sort of money would someone like Marmion be on or expect to get at Saracens?

ClanofLams

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

What sort of money would someone like Marmion be on or expect to get at Saracens?

There’s no transparency around salaries in rugby. But Saracens are rumoured to spend in excess of ten million on salaries (despite a 7m theoretical cap) with all sorts of creative ways around it including Nigel Wray setting up businesses with players or co-owning properties with players.

They are under investigation for breaching the salary cap at the moment with speculation that punishments are coming after the World Cup so as to not upset sarries players in Japan. If they get an actual punishment that might put a hold on new deals, if they get a fine/slap on the wrist it will likely be business as usual.

Would guess Saracens are spending double or close to it on wages in comparison to Connacht so even allowing for Marmion being one of the top earners at Connacht, would think a move to Saracens would result in a fair increase.

Of course there’s the not insignificant chance the value of sterling continues the steady decline of the last two years or so which would be another factor.

ScissorPaperRock

I have to say, I kinda wish we had a new head coach coming in at this point, someone with fresh ideas that hasn't been so involved. It really feels like the time for an injection of something new.

I don't want to write off Andy Farrell, but I'm not too enthused. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Squidgy Black

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

I have to say, I kinda wish we had a new head coach coming in at this point, someone with fresh ideas that hasn't been so involved. It really feels like the time for an injection of something new.

I don't want to write off Andy Farrell, but I'm not too enthused. Hopefully I'm wrong.

We have no idea what Farrell's going to do, whether he'll change things up entirely alongside Catt who'll be our first outside attack coach who hasn't been involved in any Irish team incl provinces for over 10 years, since before the Kidney days.

shootermacg

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I dont think so. Just was how schedule was made up. Hopefully when next schedule is put in place we have more games for Japan and islanders and Georgia's etc

Like it or not, the Irish team is box office for tours. The Irish come out in droves to see them and there's a ton of Irish pretty much everywhere.

Australia will do very well financially out of a second Irish tour.

Shefwedfan

ScissorPaperRock wrote: »

I have to say, I kinda wish we had a new head coach coming in at this point, someone with fresh ideas that hasn't been so involved. It really feels like the time for an injection of something new.

I don't want to write off Andy Farrell, but I'm not too enthused. Hopefully I'm wrong.

We do have a new head coach with fresh ideas

We have a whole new coaching team and head coach, Richie Murphy etc

Example, Cullen was a coach in the MOC disaster, should we have thrown Cullen out because he was part of that team?

People need to give Farrell and team a chance

shootermacg

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

What sort of money would someone like Marmion be on or expect to get at Saracens?

On top of that they are treated like royalty off the books. The best holidays, the best parties, pretty much living like kings.