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Post RWC

Dubinusa

So J.S is leaving and Farrell assumes the reins. What does this mean for us going forward? Which players get jettisoned? Does ou style of play change?
This upcoming 6nations is the 1st step to 2023. How does our squad look in February?
I think we will see a few new lads in the wider squad.
Rhys Marshall for one. Perhaps a couple of lads returned from the wilderness? McCloskey? Marty Moore?
If it was my squad and I was planning a 4 year cycle, I would purge the squad of guys who will be too old in 2023!
Earl's. POM, Cronin and obviously Toner.
Healy's is 32 and he's still our best lh, so I would hold onto him. But. EOS and James Cronin could soon be in the frame!
Hooker is a problem. Scannell is in polar position and I thought he would have passed Rory by this stage. Hopefully, McBurney and Kelleher can push on.
Our locks look good. A lot of depth, with some young lads coming up too! Wycherly, Jack Dunne and Treadwell.
The back row is also looking strong, JOD, Boyle and Deegan could become regulars?
Scrum half is also fairly strong. Marmion, Cooney and Blade are right there as is JGP.
OH there's Carty, Carberry and RB. A decent group that could really kick on.
The backs also look good, Larmour; Lyttle, Adam Byrne, with other lads coming up too.
I think Farrell has a good hand to start with!
Personally, I would have selected Leocaster as the coaches but Farrell is the new boss.

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Dubinusa

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Just in terms of results, last 6 nations we won 3 games and it was a disaster......I know what you mean and I think 3 wins would be positive but some people expectations are a little higher

Ross Byrne is playing well, but he has been playing well now for a number of years and doesn't seem to be in favour so I don't expect to see him. H Byrne is coming off the bench and getting experience but he is a long way from the squad, maybe a few weekend with the squad just to get a feel for it.....

Sexton is not going anywhere, he says the Lions tour will be swansong. If he is the form 10 then I don't see why he wouldn't be picked, if Carbery is playing better then he starts. Simple as that. Carbery biggest issue at the moment is staying fit, he has had a bad run and seemingly is still suffering from the ankle.

Not sure about Carty, no surprise, he is 27 now....next WC he will be 31. Burns and some of the younger outhalfs would be a better investment. Carbery/Burns/H Byrne would be a good line up for next few seasons.

Number 9 I have no idea, I dont think Murray will make another WC, he probably plans to make it himself. If that is the case would Ireland do a NZ and give him a year off? Casey in Munster looks the options but limited time in first team and like H Byrne probably not till next year.

Cooney is meh....so do they look at McGrath and Marmion and maybe JGP?

The likes of TOD etc are just wasted caps in my opinion, they are no better than the older generation and just stopping younger players getting a chance. They should be all cut out of options unless we have a nightmare.

I dont really care about form either, whats the point in giving someone 10 caps when they have no long term future. I would include the like of Cronin in that bracket, he wil never be the number one hooker so drop him out

Agreed!. I think we won't see Cronin again or anyone in the bracket. 3 wins in the 6nations would be good imo, especially after this rwc. England and Wales will be tough. I hope we can at least win the 3 others.
Personally I would build towards the next rwc, starting with the 6nations.
So, I would drop P.O.M and Earl's to start.
Conway is an ideal replacement for Earls. Ruddock for P.O.M with a couple of younger lads being introduced.
I would also bring back McCloskey and give him a chance. At least for the 6nations.
Hume looks to be a good player, so maybe he can force his way into the squad.
I don't see Henshaw being healthy for the long term. He is very injury prone and I think his role at 12 has hurt his career. Maybe he plays great and makes it! But, I doubt it.
Aki will have a shot, but I hope that we can find a better playmaker at 12.
Anyway, it's pure speculation at the moment.

Podge_irl

There is no point building for a wold cup 4 years out. Probably a third of the starting team in 2023 aren't even playing professional rugby yet.

Shefwedfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

There is no point building for a wold cup 4 years out. Probably a third of the starting team in 2023 aren't even playing professional rugby yet.

Im not saying drop the entire squad. Pointless.

The likes of Sexton/Murray etc if they are in form they should be still in contention.

I am talking about the players that are kind of hanging around the squad, place is in doubt etc. Drop these players out of contention. I don't see why we would keep Cronin, better to concentrate on Scannell etc and nail down a hooker.

No harm to TOD but he ain't going to get any better at this stage of his career so why would you bring him in instead of a young player etc ect

Shefwedfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

Agreed!. I think we won't see Cronin again or anyone in the bracket. 3 wins in the 6nations would be good imo, especially after this rwc. England and Wales will be tough. I hope we can at least win the 3 others.
Personally I would build towards the next rwc, starting with the 6nations.
So, I would drop P.O.M and Earl's to start.
Conway is an ideal replacement for Earls. Ruddock for P.O.M with a couple of younger lads being introduced.
I would also bring back McCloskey and give him a chance. At least for the 6nations.
Hume looks to be a good player, so maybe he can force his way into the squad.
I don't see Henshaw being healthy for the long term. He is very injury prone and I think his role at 12 has hurt his career. Maybe he plays great and makes it! But, I doubt it.
Aki will have a shot, but I hope that we can find a better playmaker at 12.
Anyway, it's pure speculation at the moment.

I think Wales might crash and burn. If you look at the squad I don't really see many big names and Pivac won't play the same style as Gatland(kick and chase) so I could see them going downhill for a season or two

England and I think France will be strong. We face both away and I think we might lose both. Especially the England game unless we catch them with WC hangover.

I always wanted McCloskey to get a chance, I just dont know anymore. Is he really the answer? Henshaw is one player who could make another WC, but maybe he needs a season off. His injury run recently is poor but he is constantly been pushed back into a team in record time. Even BOD said it years ago he couldnt understand how he recovered so quick.

Trojan

To make an argument for Cronin - if we go to a more loose offloading game, he might be exactly the kind of player we want to keep around for a couple of years to mentor a replacement in that vein.

Shefwedfan

Trojan wrote: »

To make an argument for Cronin - if we go to a more loose offloading game, he might be exactly the kind of player we want to keep around for a couple of years to mentor a replacement in that vein.

Not better to invest in Kelleher? he looked a decent prospect recently

I love Cronin, but he has never nailed a starting position and reduced international time could prolong his Leinster career. Its not like he is on central contract

jacothelad

Dubinusa wrote: »

Agreed!. I think we won't see Cronin again or anyone in the bracket. 3 wins in the 6nations would be good imo, especially after this rwc. England and Wales will be tough. I hope we can at least win the 3 others.
Personally I would build towards the next rwc, starting with the 6nations.
So, I would drop P.O.M and Earl's to start.
Conway is an ideal replacement for Earls. Ruddock for P.O.M with a couple of younger lads being introduced.
I would also bring back McCloskey and give him a chance. At least for the 6nations.
Hume looks to be a good player, so maybe he can force his way into the squad.
I don't see Henshaw being healthy for the long term. He is very injury prone and I think his role at 12 has hurt his career. Maybe he plays great and makes it! But, I doubt it.
Aki will have a shot, but I hope that we can find a better playmaker at 12.
Anyway, it's pure speculation at the moment.

I don't get the urge to drop Earls. He is still playing very well. POM looked and generally played as if jaded = as did others but he hasn't really pulled his weight for a while. His stats returns are horrendous for a 6 and he clearly isn't a 7. Nabbing a few l/os is good but on it's own and making the odd turnover is not enough to secure a place.

One thing that stood out for me is that real pace is such a hard thing to counter. Ireland's backs are not slow but few are gifted with afterburner speed. McCloskey is a fine player who can pass well and kicks well but in truth is a bit pedestrian. His size is a great asset. I suspect that he is a better all round player than Chris Farrell but I also think he would not be a huge improvement if at all on the centres we have. I do feel he has been undervalued by Schmidt though.

Hume is looking to be a talented player. I think he will make the grade but he has just shipped a bad hamstring injury and is seeing a specialist.

In terms is attacking pace Lyttle is 'little' gem of a player and Baloucoune has serious speed and seems to have arrived fully formed as it were in attack and defence. I hope Aaron Sexton fulfills his promise. His pace is awesome but from what I have heard and seen he is also a good player.

I know there are plenty of young guns appearing at the other provinces. What Ulster don't have is a supply of young forwards to match the backs.

Hands Like Flippers

jacothelad wrote: »

I know there are plenty of young guns appearing at the other provinces. What Ulster don't have is a supply of young forwards to match the backs.

Some good forwards coming through. Watch this space. 2nd row training Irish Schools this year one year early, 6'8" for example.

Squidgy Black

A lot of people forgetting that the 6 Nations pays the bills, and is extremely important in the eyes of the IRFU and as a result the provinces.

The Lost Sheep

Dubinusa wrote: »

Agreed!. I think we won't see Cronin again or anyone in the bracket. 3 wins in the 6nations would be good imo, especially after this rwc. England and Wales will be tough. I hope we can at least win the 3 others.
Personally I would build towards the next rwc, starting with the 6nations.
So, I would drop P.O.M and Earl's to start.
Conway is an ideal replacement for Earls. Ruddock for P.O.M with a couple of younger lads being introduced

POM is about 12 months older than ruddock. If dropping one on basis of age should you not be doing it to both?
Building for world cup sounds great but that doesnt mean you have to stop using people who definitely wont be playing in that world cup.

I would also bring back McCloskey and give him a chance. At least for the 6nations.
Hume looks to be a good player, so maybe he can force his way into the squad.
I don't see Henshaw being healthy for the long term. He is very injury prone and I think his role at 12 has hurt his career. Maybe he plays great and makes it! But, I doubt it.
Aki will have a shot, but I hope that we can find a better playmaker at 12.
Anyway, it's pure speculation at the moment.

why is there such a push for mccloskey. I would love to see henshaw come back in but allowed be more than the 12 role he was pushed into. He emerged as a 13/15 and would be great to see him back in wonder channels.

Trojan wrote: »

To make an argument for Cronin - if we go to a more loose offloading game, he might be exactly the kind of player we want to keep around for a couple of years to mentor a replacement in that vein.

why when there is alternatives who can do that and are younger and better at set piece where Cronin isnt as good.

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Some good forwards coming through. Watch this space. 2nd row training Irish Schools this year one year early, 6'8" for example.

and how long before he even plays a game of rugby against actual adults and not kids?

Squidgy Black wrote: »

A lot of people forgetting that the 6 Nations pays the bills, and is extremely important in the eyes of the IRFU and as a result the provinces.

extremely important but how can we ever do better ina world cup if we dont adapt our approach from all other previous world cups?

Squidgy Black

Don't get me wrong, all in favour of bringing in young prospects and preparing for 2023 and all, but the suggestions that players over 26 should more or less be left out of the squads from now on because they'll be early 30s by the time it rolls around is just lunacy.

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

A lot of people forgetting that the 6 Nations pays the bills, and is extremely important in the eyes of the IRFU and as a result the provinces.

I’m not, we need to be competitive in the 6 nations and if we can win then let’s do it....if we can win with Sexton at 10 and Murray at 9 then I don’t see why we shouldn’t

The call to dump an entire squad is over the top, we need to integrate players into it but I have a feeling some fans won’t accept small changes...if Farrell makes small changes and has a “disaster” 6 nations by losing two matchs then people will be on to sack him before he starts....

I do think we need to sort out the back row ASAP....whatever he comes up with on that front.

partyguinness

Is it just my imagination but do the Irish players in general seem that bit more injury prone that some of the other Tier 1 teams? Just a little nagging suspicion I've had and I am sure someone will be quick to tell me it is indeed my imagination.

partyguinness

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, all in favour of bringing in young prospects and preparing for 2023 and all, but the suggestions that players over 26 should more or less be left out of the squads from now on because they'll be early 30s by the time it rolls around is just lunacy.

Sure I was reading the post 2015 WC thread last week and the general and not unreasonable consensus was that Best and Kearney would not be around in 2019.

OldRio

partyguinness wrote: »

Sure I was reading the post 2015 WC thread last week and the general and not unreasonable consensus was that Best and Kearney would not be around in 2019.

Unfortunately the consensus was correct.

errlloyd

Thought Rob Kearney was actually pretty good.

partyguinness

OldRio wrote: »

Unfortunately the consensus was correct.

Well...it wasn't correct as they were still around.

Whether they should still have been around is another matter. I had no issue with Kearney.

Dubinusa

No overhaul yet, incremental and balanced. Earl's is 32. No chance he plays at the next rwc! Conway is 28!
Conway is playing some great rugby.
Sexton will be a memory in 23, time to spread the minutes around!
Murray is not even the best 9 at Munster right now!
POM has been poor. Ruddock has been better for a while. Conan will miss the 6nations, bring in a form backdrop, who's hungry and can make the grade.
McCloskey has never been given a shot. Schmidt had no real interest in him and he opted for Aki, who was poor and Henshaw, who was recovering from injury and was awful.
Schmidt missed the boat completely, imo.
Cronin will not be at the rwc 23. He is also 33 and is a poor set piece player. Why not invest in a younger hooker?
I think that the central contracts and reputations of some players, were a hindrance.
There was a point against Japan, that I thought it looked like our lads had only been together for a few days. Let alone, count the experience of our side. It was very poor and we had no answers! So, in saying all that, we're at a point where some lads are in their twilight and are just not up to par. Why continue with the same cast of characters, when we can introduce a couple of new ones immediately.

Shefwedfan

I think everyone should listen to Fla on this podcast if you haven't already heard it.....finally someone who is making a bit of sense

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5deMLb7dQpc&list=PLqNkY83t8W0ECjqcQqkqvAUALzUISjBhq

Go to 49 mins

Dubinusa

So 1st round of Euros and a couple of noteworthy points.
Larmour in ahead of Kearney. Not too surprising.
Porter starting?
Lyttle ahead of Gilroy! I'm surprised at this one.
And of course, Kelleher getting the nod.
Next weekend will be more telling.

So far imo, lads that have put their hands up.
Haley
DK
Luke Marshall
Rea

The pro14 is a tough one to sell. Lads like Robb have really played well. But aren't picked for Europe.
Others include
JOB
Connors
Wycherly.

Great weekend ahead.

Jump_In_Jack

Dubinusa wrote: »

So 1st round of Euros and a couple of noteworthy points.
Larmour in ahead of Kearney. Not too surprising.
Porter starting?
Lyttle ahead of Gilroy! I'm surprised at this one.
And of course, Kelleher getting the nod.
Next weekend will be more telling.

So far imo, lads that have put their hands up.
Haley
DK
Luke Marshall
Rea

The pro14 is a tough one to sell. Lads like Robb have really played well. But aren't picked for Europe.
Others include
JOB
Connors
Wycherly.

Great weekend ahead.

Furlong is injured.
Although, I reckon Porter has outperformed Furlong recently, and is in his best ever form right now.

Dubinusa

Yea, I didn't know he was injured. But, Porter has been the balls. ROL was great! It was nice seeing a lad playing into space and putting others away.
Interestingly, I thought from the other teams
Ulster. Cooney and AOC
Munster, Loughman
Connect Copeland and Aki
All were impressive.
It was a good weekend. I really enjoyed the Ulster match. A pure dogfight.
This weekend will be just as good, with more lads stepping up.

Dubinusa

Week 2 over. Great weekend of rugby.
Healy is still the top lh. I think Kilcoyne would still be the back up. Loughman surprisingly has been very good. EOS needs to up his scrummaging.
Kelleher, Herring and Scannell are the best of the hookers, imo
Moore, Porter and Furlong are the front runners imo.
Dillane and Roux were good this weekend.I think the 2 of them have put themselves front and center. Henderson and Ryan still the top 2. Beirne has been ok.
I'd pick Ruddock over POM at this stage. Ready was good this week and Boyle has been immense
VDF and Nordi
Standers is probably nailed on. Deegan playing very well and Copeland having a mini revival.
Cooney for me this far.
Sexton, maybe Burns as back up. Carty has not been very good. RB has been steady.
Wings, Conway and Earls.
FB Haley, Larmour and Addison in that order.
Centers Ringrose and McCloskey.

Of course, this is only my take on what I've seen these past couple of weeks.

Dubinusa

Carty struggling. RB back in contention?
VDF nailed on.
Th, Moore, Furlong and Porter.
Hooker, Scannell, Kelliher and Herring
Lock. Ryan Toner Henderson.
6 Ruddock. POM, Doris
8 Stander, Doris
20 shirt. NORDI , Deegan? Doris. JOD.
9, Cooney, Blade, Luke or JGP.
10 Sexton, Burns, R.B
Wing. Earl's, Conway, Stockdale, Larmour
Center. Ringrose, Aki, Henshaw, McCloskey.
Fb. Larmour, Haley, Addison.
Lh, Healy.

Richie_Rich89

Dubinusa wrote: »

Carty struggling. RB back in contention?
VDF nailed on.
Th, Moore, Furlong and Porter.
Hooker, Scannell, Kelliher and Herring
Lock. Ryan Toner Henderson.
6 Ruddock. POM, Doris
8 Stander, Doris
20 shirt. NORDI , Deegan? Doris. JOD.
9, Cooney, Blade, Luke or JGP.
10 Sexton, Burns, R.B
Wing. Earl's, Conway, Stockdale, Larmour
Center. Ringrose, Aki, Henshaw, McCloskey.
Fb. Larmour, Haley, Addison.
Lh, Healy.

Think I'd like the backrowers in the wider squad to be:

Blindside: C.J. Stander, Tadhg Beirne, Rhys Ruddock
Openside: Josh van der Flier, Peter O'Mahony, Will Connors
No. 8: Max Deegan, Caelan Doris, Jack O'Sullivan*

*might as well call him up to train with the squad as a sort of apprentice if Munster aren't picking him.

Dubinusa

Kilcoyne being out is a blow. He's really come good.
John Ryan and Bealham have dropped down imo.
Cronin may not make it either, as there's lads playing good stuff.

Dubinusa

Getting fairly close now! So I think the next month is crucial for all the players.
Players out! Best, obviously, RK reaching the end imo.
Players teetering! Murray, still not playing well, Jack McGrath, injured and hasn't stood out when selected. Carty, poor run of form. Marmion, needs a big showing when he returns. Luke McGrath, not playing very well.
Rising! Kelleher, Haley, Moore and Toner.
Safe!! Healy, Henderson Ryan and Stander.
New additions, Kelleher. E.O.S
Then there's the competition between Aki, Ringrose and Henshaw, Ruddock and POM Earl's, Conway and Stockdale.
Am I missing anyone?

Dubinusa

Yesterday didn't produce much change imo. From my perspective, Furlong and RB did the most to improve their chances.
1. Healy. Kilcoyne, E.OS
2 Scannell. Kelleher, Herring
3 Furlong. Moore Porter
4 Henderson, Toner, Dillane
5 Ryan, Roux. Kleyn
6 Ruddock, Stander, POM, JOD
7. VDF, Nordi. Boyle
8. Stander. Doris, Deegan
9. Cooney. Blade, JGP, Luke
10. RB, Burns, JJ, Fitz
11, Earl's, Stockdale
12. Aki, Henshay, McCloskey
13. Ringrose. Marshall,
14. Conway, DK, Lyttle,
15. Larmour, Haley.
This is based on who's healthy. Obviously, injuries etc. Will be considered.

Paul Smeenus

I'd put Baloucoune ahead of Lyttle and DK. But he probably has been absent for too much of this season.

Dubinusa

Lots of change! Lots of surprises in the initial camp!
RK is done! The other guys are motoring along. Nordi! I think his omission is a mistake! Blade. Thoroughly deserving, Cooney must start. The best 9 by a mile. It's not even close!
Delighted to see McCloskey, who is imo, the best 12 thus far. Delighted for O'Toole. The future!
Beirne has been poor. I don't think he'd have made it. Dillane has been immense, absolute freak of an athlete. Roux has also been very good!
Farrell has done more cutting than I expected! I thought there would be 3 or 4 new faces.
Fair play to him.