nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

ohographite

tom1ie wrote: »

Close it and replace it with an efficient frequent bus service.
The population density's are not there to support it.
As for electrifying it, save the money and divert the money to a metro system in Dublin.

Both electrifying it and giving Dublin a Metro System can be done, and I'm certain that it makes sense to do both.

end of the road

tom1ie wrote: »

Close it and replace it with an efficient frequent bus service.

no point as the only thing it would achieve is increase car traffic.
a frequent not so efficient service in replacement won't attract the patronage as there is already an existing bus service which meets the needs of those who actually do want and use buses. however it would not meet the needs of those using the rail service, no matter how frequent or efficient.

[/QUOTE]The population density's are not there to support it.

funnily enough the population dencities are there to support the galway to limerick service, which is now well used. there are certainly a couple of questions about the couple of small stations but they are built now so it's time to move on.

[/QUOTE]As for electrifying it, save the money and divert the money to a metro system in Dublin.[/QUOTE]

apparently not possible as the money if put up for electrification would have to either go to electrification or go back into the general pot.
apparently it's not as simple as diverting money from one project to another due to the workings of government budgeting.
there is already money available for, and plans to build the metrolink in dublin, but whether it will actually get done, only time will tell.

donvito99

Wouldn't a Galway commuter service using the stock presently wasted running North of Ennis have a far greater environmental impact?

tom1ie

ohographite wrote: »

I'll admit you have a point here.
Even though the train would be running anyway from Limerick to Ennis and from Athenry to Galway,(which lowers the environmental impact of journeys made from either of these sections to the new section and beyond) I would say the Ennis-Athenry section just about fails to lower greenhouse gas emissions.
However, I am in support of electrifying this railway, which, while expensive, would make environmental sense as an alternative to keeping diesel trains running on it.

Close it and replace it with an efficient frequent bus service.
The population density's are not there to support it.
As for electrifying it, save the money and divert the money to a metro system in Dublin.

ohographite

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There's no planet where it makes environmental sense to run a diesel train for an average of 39 passengers.

I'll admit you have a point here.
Even though the train would be running anyway from Limerick to Ennis and from Athenry to Galway,(which lowers the environmental impact of journeys made from either of these sections to the new section and beyond) I would say the Ennis-Athenry section just about fails to lower greenhouse gas emissions.
However, I am in support of electrifying this railway, which, while expensive, would make environmental sense as an alternative to keeping diesel trains running on it.

Muckyboots

Del.Monte wrote: »

It's a potentially useful link line that was run into the ground by CIE and should have never closed in the first place. I have no vested interest in seeing it reopened as I have it ticked off - in both directions - many times but believe that it should be reopened and properly operated. CIE don't feature in any real future for the line in my opinion.

Are you proposing a fully privatised WRC? Asking for a shinner friend.

L1011

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Google shadow tolls on the M3.

I actually tried this.

One five year out of date result comes up, along with 9 completely unconnected articles.

You are so badly informed about what you have latched on to as a conspiracy you don't even know how to direct people to the info on it. They're called "capacity payments", if that helps you find stuff.

Grandeeod

westtip wrote: »

Of those 39 how many are fare paying passengers?
How many are using the travel pass?
If the line between the two largest urban areas in the West/midwest can only muster up 39 passengers per train what are the expected numbers of a train passing through a few small towns?
Oh my head is getting tired.

You are replying to a person that accepts 39 passengers are an average, while claiming that the WRC is a mass transit system or could be. At least your head is only tired.:D

westtip

end of the road wrote: »

it does make sense when
1. 39 is only the average and is not the exact. there are plenty of full trains on the wrc.
2. the train keeps people from going back to their cars and has potential to have it's numbers grown.

Of those 39 how many are fare paying passengers?
How many are using the travel pass?
If the line between the two largest urban areas in the West/midwest can only muster up 39 passengers per train what are the expected numbers of a train passing through a few small towns?
Oh my head is getting tired.

end of the road

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

There's no planet where it makes environmental sense to run a diesel train for an average of 39 passengers.

it does make sense when
1. 39 is only the average and is not the exact. there are plenty of full trains on the wrc.
2. the train keeps people from going back to their cars and has potential to have it's numbers grown.

Hotblack Desiato

There's no planet where it makes environmental sense to run a diesel train for an average of 39 passengers.

end of the road

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

It's a joke.
Not only would a coach service be far cheaper to run, the environmental impact would be less.

and would attract none of the passengers using the rail services, or who would use the rail services in the future, for which rail is the only option for them on that corridor. a corridor which is growing, along with the rail services.

those who do wish to use bus services already have them, a plenty.
bus's environmental impact would actually be worse as it would be adding to pollution, compared to rail which ultimately takes away from it by being on it's own and being able to carry a hell of a lot more.

Hotblack Desiato

donvito99 wrote: »

So less than a full complement of coach passengers, on average

It's a joke.
Not only would a coach service be far cheaper to run, the environmental impact would be less.

Isambard

Greaney wrote: »

Just because you say it, doesn't make it true!!

https://connachttribune.ie/western-rail-corridor-user-numbers-exceed-expectations/

as well you know, i was referring to the original projections used to justify the rebuilding . You can talk about year on year growth if you like, and I agree traffic is growing, but it hasn't lived up to the projections even with the fare slashed

L1011

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Your emotive language says a lot about how brittle the anti rail position is. For everyone else, Google shadow tolls on the M3.

You are still banging a conspiracy drum that does not exist. Also, what emotive language? What is anti-rail in that post? You are imagining things

The M3 doesn't receive any subventions anymore. The last amounts were so small as to be irrelevant.

The state has put huge volumes of subsidised buses to Navan on that would have undermined any conspiracy anyway

Find a better argument - one based on facts not delusions

Lord Glentoran

L1011 wrote: »

Your conspiracy theory rather unravels itself when you mention the multiple extra buses being run that would have the same impact on tolls

The M3 now receives no subvention. The railway line hasn't been extended due to incompetence, not some pathetic conspiracy

Your emotive language says a lot about how brittle the anti rail position is. For everyone else, Google shadow tolls on the M3.

L1011

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Why would someone talk down rail? That’s a very interesting question all right. We know the reason why the proposed commuter rail to Navan didn’t happen - the operator of the PPP Motorway was guaranteed minimum levels of income by the then Government. There is a thread elsewhere on Boards where the bus advocates are now strangely silent because no matter how many buses Band private operators throw at Navan, they cannot cope adequately with demand.

Galway is also grinding to a halt but the only Approved Option on Boards for some posters is the outer bypass - when the most vocal posters on the old WRC thread swore that the extension of the motorway from Gort to Tuam would “kill” the WRC. Spoiler - it didn’t.

Your conspiracy theory rather unravels itself when you mention the multiple extra buses being run that would have the same impact on tolls

The M3 now receives no subvention. The railway line hasn't been extended due to incompetence, not some pathetic conspiracy

donvito99

ohographite wrote: »

I wouldn't say that railways need to carry massive numbers of people to make sense.
The Ennis - Athenry section's patronage(390 passengers daily, or 39 per average train) is, at least in my opinion, an acceptable patronage to fund a railway for.

So less than a full complement of coach passengers, on average

ohographite

donvito99 wrote: »

Is it possible to call WRC mass transit and maintain a straight face?

I wouldn't say that railways need to carry massive numbers of people to make sense.
The Ennis - Athenry section's patronage(390 passengers daily, or 39 per average train) is, at least in my opinion, an acceptable patronage to fund a railway for.

Greaney

Isambard wrote: »

it's quite simple, a line running from one city to another has struggled to establish itself and has still to meet the projections for it.

Just because you say it, doesn't make it true!!

https://connachttribune.ie/western-rail-corridor-user-numbers-exceed-expectations/

Greaney

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Why would someone talk down rail? That’s a very interesting question all right. We know the reason why the proposed commuter rail to Navan didn’t happen - the operator of the PPP Motorway was guaranteed minimum levels of income by the then Government. There is a thread elsewhere on Boards where the bus advocates are now strangely silent because no matter how many buses BÉ and private operators throw at Navan, they cannot cope adequately with demand.

Galway is also grinding to a halt but the only Approved Option on Boards for some posters is the outer bypass - when the most vocal posters on the old WRC thread swore that the extension of the motorway from Gort to Tuam would “kill” the WRC. Spoiler - it didn’t.

You're right it didn't, because a huge number of people, don't or can't drive!! I'm stumped! Are they on this thread trolling? I live on that train line and it's started to hop with passengers in the past three years. I've made vids about it and posted them. I've gone down on Sunday nights physically counted the numbers and filmed the transfers from the Dub-Gal line at Athenry to get on the Limerick line.

Gosh I'd rather better funded public services in a heartbeat, than an extra fiver a week after the budget. In my old age I may loose my sight or mobility and the train line would be a God send. Tuams' home to an Irish Wheelchair assoc. office, can you imagine public transport it's members could actually use???

Lord Glentoran

Greaney wrote: »

Crikey!! For a commuting & transport thread there's an awful lot of people who'd either

1) Don't take the train but like to talk about it.
2) Would like to see the Western Rail Corridor fail!!
3) Assume everyone has a car!!
4) Assumes greenways are preferable to mass transit
5) Thinks Parents can drive their children everywhere
6) over estimates how wheelchair friendly buses are.....

I just don't get it.
Just for the record, I'm a cycling advocate and live in a one car household (In the county, which is a miracle). I organise cycling events in the town I live in. Most of those who use their bike as a commuting solution would love our rail system invested in, supported and extended. I just don't get it.... why would someone talk down rail??? I work with teens, and public transport is their lifeline. Personally, I didn't drive till I was 30 and was very frustrated that I couldn't get to where I needed to go without a car!!!! My family missed out because of that...… I dunno

As an even organiser, to be on the rail line makes you a host of choice for sporting event's etc. because you've the infrastructure to take folk who don't have many other travel options.

Och

Why would someone talk down rail? That’s a very interesting question all right. We know the reason why the proposed commuter rail to Navan didn’t happen - the operator of the PPP Motorway was guaranteed minimum levels of income by the then Government. There is a thread elsewhere on Boards where the bus advocates are now strangely silent because no matter how many buses BÉ and private operators throw at Navan, they cannot cope adequately with demand.

Galway is also grinding to a halt but the only Approved Option on Boards for some posters is the outer bypass - when the most vocal posters on the old WRC thread swore that the extension of the motorway from Gort to Tuam would “kill” the WRC. Spoiler - it didn’t.

Del.Monte

It's a potentially useful link line that was run into the ground by CIE and should have never closed in the first place. I have no vested interest in seeing it reopened as I have it ticked off - in both directions - many times but believe that it should be reopened and properly operated. CIE don't feature in any real future for the line in my opinion.

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

oh absolutely, of course it is very much so.

Since the WRC farce was exposed in 2004 and after 1000s of pages of discussion on this forum and the fact that the WRC runs through rural Ireland, you can stand over a claim that it's a mass transit project???:eek:

Deluded. Stupid. Crazy. Daft. Mad. I could keep typing similar words in response to your post, but I'll laugh instead at the sheer cheek of it.:D

end of the road

donvito99 wrote: »

Is it possible to call WRC mass transit and maintain a straight face?

oh absolutely, of course it is very much so.

donvito99

Greaney wrote: »

Crikey!! For a commuting & transport thread there's an awful lot of people who'd either

1) Don't take the train but like to talk about it.
2) Would like to see the Western Rail Corridor fail!!
3) Assume everyone has a car!!
4) Assumes greenways are preferable to mass transit
5) Thinks Parents can drive their children everywhere
6) over estimates how wheelchair friendly buses are.....

I just don't get it.
Just for the record, I'm a cycling advocate and live in a one car household (In the county, which is a miracle). I organise cycling events in the town I live in. Most of those who use their bike as a commuting solution would love our rail system invested in, supported and extended. I just don't get it.... why would someone talk down rail??? I work with teens, and public transport is their lifeline. Personally, I didn't drive till I was 30 and was very frustrated that I couldn't get to where I needed to go without a car!!!! My family missed out because of that...… I dunno

As an even organiser, to be on the rail line makes you a host of choice for sporting event's etc. because you've the infrastructure to take folk who don't have many other travel options.

Och

Is it possible to call WRC mass transit and maintain a straight face?

Isambard

Greaney wrote: »

Crikey!! For a commuting & transport thread there's an awful lot of people who'd either

1) Don't take the train but like to talk about it.
2) Would like to see the Western Rail Corridor fail!!
3) Assume everyone has a car!!
4) Assumes greenways are preferable to mass transit
5) Thinks Parents can drive their children everywhere
6) over estimates how wheelchair friendly buses are.....

I just don't get it.
Just for the record, I'm a cycling advocate and live in a one car household (In the county, which is a miracle). I organise cycling events in the town I live in. Most of those who use their bike as a commuting solution would love our rail system invested in, supported and extended. I just don't get it.... why would someone talk down rail??? I work with teens, and public transport is their lifeline. Personally, I didn't drive till I was 30 and was very frustrated that I couldn't get to where I needed to go without a car!!!! My family missed out because of that...… I dunno

As an even organiser, to be on the rail line makes you a host of choice for sporting event's etc. because you've the infrastructure to take folk who don't have many other travel options.

Och

it's quite simple, a line running from one city to another has struggled to establish itself and has still to meet the projections for it. A line from a City running through quite empty countryside to nowhere in particular has less chance of being a success.

Many people opposing the line north from Athenry are merely concerned that any available funds are applied where they will be of maximum benefit.

Greaney

Crikey!! For a commuting & transport thread there's an awful lot of people who'd either

1) Don't take the train but like to talk about it.
2) Would like to see the Western Rail Corridor fail!!
3) Assume everyone has a car!!
4) Assumes greenways are preferable to mass transit
5) Thinks Parents can drive their children everywhere
6) over estimates how wheelchair friendly buses are.....

I just don't get it.
Just for the record, I'm a cycling advocate and live in a one car household (In the county, which is a miracle). I organise cycling events in the town I live in. Most of those who use their bike as a commuting solution would love our rail system invested in, supported and extended. I just don't get it.... why would someone talk down rail??? I work with teens, and public transport is their lifeline. Personally, I didn't drive till I was 30 and was very frustrated that I couldn't get to where I needed to go without a car!!!! My family missed out because of that...… I dunno

As an even organiser, to be on the rail line makes you a host of choice for sporting event's etc. because you've the infrastructure to take folk who don't have many other travel options.

Och

end of the road

serfboard wrote: »

Galway City is choked with traffic, Galway County is not.

And the students that you cite using the trains are not the ones choking up Galway City's traffic.

What's needed for Galway City is Park n' Rides on the outskirts of the city, with buses serving the industrial estates & GMIT, NUIG/UHG and the City Centre, delivered by more buses using Bus Lanes, which have been planned for, but not developed.

For City Centre passengers, there is a great PnR at Oranmore train station.

Train transit might work if Galway County had been properly planned, with people living in towns. Instead, local politicans built their careers on getting planning permissions for one-off housing in the countryside, creating a car-dependent population.

you are not going to get very many willing to waste their time going to a park and ride to get on a bus that travels along some paint job bus lane.
as much as some want to keep pushing busses as the solution for galway and other city's transport needs they are just never going to cut it as the majority pt solution, we have tried that solution for decades and it just does not work.
on the other hand we know light rail works in attracting passengers and that is the only way of solving the majority of pt needs for a city with bus taking on the real outlier areas.

serfboard

Greaney wrote: »

Galway is choked with traffic

Galway City is choked with traffic, Galway County is not.

And the students that you cite using the trains are not the ones choking up Galway City's traffic.

What's needed for Galway City is Park n' Rides on the outskirts of the city, with buses serving the industrial estates & GMIT, NUIG/UHG and the City Centre, delivered by more buses using Bus Lanes, which have been planned for, but not developed.

For City Centre passengers, there is a great PnR at Oranmore train station.

Train transit might work if Galway County had been properly planned, with people living in towns. Instead, local politicans built their careers on getting planning permissions for one-off housing in the countryside, creating a car-dependent population.