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M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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[Deleted User]

Its the accordion effect that drives me mad!!!
And its almost impossible to leave space in front of you because someone will jump in.
And dont get me started on the merging!
Mergers driving past open spaces in moving traffic to get past 2/3 more cars forcing them to stop to get in (then heading straight for the inside).

WishUWereHere

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

Yes definitely phones a factor and many people on auto pilot after starting commute so early.
Was a complete joke this week.
If not a serious accident eg slight rear end tip
Get the f**k into the hard shoulder and sort it out don’t be waiting for the guards for over an hour and hold up 10000 people trying to get to work.

Also close that new circle k after Goffs until 10am daily or put in a proper slip for merging on exit as this is causing major slowdown everyday with exiting cars pushing out onto n7.

I drive a van, so am able to look down into cars beside me. The number of people texting or reading texts while moving is truly shocking. You could pick them out in an instant, they nearly always are using their right hand.

fullstop

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Absolutely desperate this morning.

Was 2 cars had a minor tip inbound. Both drivers standing in the middle of the road and the cars blocking 2 lanes. Get them the **** to the hard shoulder.

pad199207

fullstop wrote: »

Was 2 cars had a minor tip inbound. Both drivers standing in the middle of the road and the cars blocking 2 lanes. Get them the **** to the hard shoulder.

I’d personally get out and tell them to get the **** out of the way

Mantis Toboggan

fullstop wrote: »

Was 2 cars had a minor tip inbound. Both drivers standing in the middle of the road and the cars blocking 2 lanes. Get them the **** to the hard shoulder.

I know, Idiots.

Would love if the government or associated body would sponsor and advertising campaign on TV of how to drive on a 3 lane motorway and what to do in the event of an accident.

WishUWereHere

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I know, Idiots.

Would love if the government or associated body would sponsor and advertising campaign on TV of how to drive on a 3 lane motorway and what to do in the event of an accident.

I have seen tow wagons, Arctic’s, cars a learner car, and even a Garda car hogging the outside lane.

Quite simply, we haven’t a f*****g clue how to drive on a 3 lane dual carriage way/Motorway.

L1011

I phoned in an artic taking actually about 10km to complete an overtake manoeuvre on the M9 before to Trafficwatch and got a call from the local station nearly immediately saying it wasn't an offence! Corrected them on that but the chances they did anything are basically nil

MaceFace

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I know, Idiots.

Would love if the government or associated body would sponsor and advertising campaign on TV of how to drive on a 3 lane motorway and what to do in the event of an accident.

I know it’s off topic but I was in a different type of accident a few years ago and moved the car immediately to stop blocking the road. The other car driver lied about the events and because i didn’t have any photos of where the car came to rest after the accident, I couldn’t prove my version.
I learned from that the do not move the cars until you have video and photos of the scene of the accident.
Roll on a year ago on the m50, I was in the outside lane in traffic and got hit from behind. I took photos and video as quick as I can and moved to the hard shoulder to check further for damage.

Even in a straightforward shunt from behind, don’t underestimate the chances the other person will say anything to pin the blame on you.

MaceFace

All 3 lanes should be up to 120km/h by mid December
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/upgraded-m7-to-be-operating-at-full-speed-by-christmas-tii-says-1.4066118

AugustusMinimus

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I have seen tow wagons, Arctic’s, cars a learner car, and even a Garda car hogging the outside lane.

Quite simply, we haven’t a f*****g clue how to drive on a 3 lane dual carriage way/Motorway.

What’s the point of adding a lane when no one will use. Utterly pointless.

Pitch n Putt

MaceFace wrote: »

All 3 lanes should be up to 120km/h by mid December
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/upgraded-m7-to-be-operating-at-full-speed-by-christmas-tii-says-1.4066118

This will be when the real carnage will start. People can’t drive here as it is at 80km/hr.

Bombing along at 120 km checking Facebook or sending messages suddenly cars back up around the ball at Naas it’ll be like the bumper cars in tramore.

Probably make it an hour and a half from Naas to Dublin up from the current 45 minutes 🙄🙄😯

LuasSimon

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

This will be when the real carnage will start. People can’t drive here as it is at 80km/hr.

Bombing along at 120 km checking Facebook or sending messages suddenly cars back up around the ball at Naas it’ll be like the bumper cars in tramore.

Probably make it an hour and a half from Naas to Dublin up from the current 45 minutes ðŸ™„ðŸ™„ðŸ˜¯

Is it the case many people presently are on their phones because their going so slow or ground to a halt .... if it’s all free moving people won’t be on their phones as they are moving quickly to Dublin .
Our can’t leave our phone down problem is as bad as the nations cocaine problem !

Mantis Toboggan

Naas to the city centre would be a lot longer than 45 minutes these days in rush hour.

Pitch n Putt

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Naas to the city centre would be a lot longer than 45 minutes these days in rush hour.

True meant Naas to Redcow

Ash.J.Williams

MaceFace wrote: »

All 3 lanes should be up to 120km/h by mid December
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/upgraded-m7-to-be-operating-at-full-speed-by-christmas-tii-says-1.4066118

In theory

MaceFace

The amount of naysayers in this thread is unbelievable. Moan that there are only 2 lanes, moan now that there are only 3 lanes. Moan that the Red Cow can't handle the traffic. Moaning about people not working nights.

Inbound between 6am and 9am in September there was 3.5% more cars going through Newlands Cross compared to a year ago. Kill registered a 5% increase. That means the busy intersections such as CityWest and Red Cow is having to handle more and more traffic.

If more people are choosing to drive this route, it's hardly the fault of the government or NRA. Seems like some people would prefer to go back to 2 lanes, and easily forget the traffic from M9 through Kill in the mornings.

Outside of rush hour, it is a massive improvement. Driving the road inbound on a Sunday evening used to mean long delays backed up from Naas North as everyone jostled to get into the outside lane at the N7 join. Now, that's no longer an issue.

And South/West bound - I haven't had to stop once at Naas North since the 3 lanes opened.

EDIT: Just look at the post directly above for the most recent example. Way too many people looking to find faults and have a good moan.

SoupyNorman

MaceFace wrote: »

...If more people are choosing to drive this route, it's hardly the fault of the government or NRA....

.

While I agree with the majority of your post, this one part aggravates me in general.

The government could care less about anyone who lives even a stones throw outside Dublin, There is zero investment of initiative to persuade commuters to switch to public transport. The N7 is sparsely populated with busses, even in the height of rush hour.

Naas is now practically Dublin for all intents and a main commuter artery runs all the way there so, extend the bloody LUAS and hey presto new commuter towns can be built up along the open expanses either side of the N7. There is just no care or foresight and today we have little (I have no option) but to be a single occupant car commuter.

BTW, I don’t live in Naas, where I live isn’t even serviced by a bus.

Tomrota

SoupyNorman wrote: »

While I agree with the majority of your post, this one part aggravates me in general.

The government could care less about anyone who lives even a stones throw outside Dublin, There is zero investment of initiative to persuade commuters to switch to public transport. The N7 is sparsely populated with busses, even in the height of rush hour.

Naas is now practically Dublin for all intents and a main commuter artery runs all the way there so, extend the bloody LUAS and hey presto new commuter towns can be built up along the open expanses either side of the N7. There is just no care or foresight and today we have little (I have no option) but to be a single occupant car commuter.

BTW, I don’t live in Naas, where I live isn’t even serviced by a bus.

Naas has the worst public transport of every commuter town. It’s just so bad. Naas needs DART, not Luas. But the NTA/Shane Ross will delay putting more car park spaces in naas train station to keep passenger numbers just under Hazelhatch so they don’t have to extend it 5 minutes further. There are literally no future proposals or plans anywhere further than citywest on the N7 corridor in terms of public transport. It’s dire. If you are a family and move to Naas, be sure to be able to fit at least four cars in the drive cause you’re not going to be using public transport.

Nothing they do with the M7 will change the absence of public transport along this corridor.

MaceFace

SoupyNorman wrote: »

While I agree with the majority of your post, this one part aggravates me in general.

The government could care less about anyone who lives even a stones throw outside Dublin, There is zero investment of initiative to persuade commuters to switch to public transport. The N7 is sparsely populated with busses, even in the height of rush hour.

Naas is now practically Dublin for all intents and a main commuter artery runs all the way there so, extend the bloody LUAS and hey presto new commuter towns can be built up along the open expanses either side of the N7. There is just no care or foresight and today we have little (I have no option) but to be a single occupant car commuter.

BTW, I don’t live in Naas, where I live isn’t even serviced by a bus.

The problem with a public transport link between Dublin and Naas is that it will be at capacity for 2 hours Dublin bound in the morning and 2 hours Naas bound in the evening. The rest of the time the Luas, Dart or buses will be sparsely used which means it will be losing money. The drivers can't just be redeployed to another area because its the same everywhere. The additional stock can't just be parked up for 20 hours a day.

The other problem is getting to the public mainline. The local train station is in Sallins and there is a feeder bus but again, but it has limited capacity as again the demand is only there in mornings and evenings. There train station is in Sallins village and there is very limited space for extending the car park. The new car park was supposed to be opened this month but is now pushed back to spring as there is a lot of remediation work required due to previous flooding and lack of use. This is also a privately owned car park so its not just a case that Irish Rail can decide to use it.

The other huge challenge is that not everyone wants to go into Dublin city center, so until there is a proper cross-Dublin rail link, everyone will be terminating at Heuston which means a Luas or Bus and then maybe even a Dart or another bus to get to where you need to go.

Im not knocking the need for improvements, but Naas is a town of only 20k people. Maybe a new P&R dedicated station a few miles southwest of Sallins which can be reached in under a minute from the M7. That would require 4 lines to this station, but you can't do that because there is no space in Sallins as the line goes right through the village with houses and a school very close to the existing 2 line track. So, maybe the station would need to go northeast of Sallins, but then the N7 will be a couple of miles from the station.
Same problem though - what demand will there be outside the rush hour?

EDIT: Also meant to say that there is now the 139 route through Naas which is an improvement.

[Deleted User]

Tomrota wrote: »

Naas has the worst public transport of every commuter town. It’s just so bad. Naas needs DART, not Luas. But the NTA/Shane Ross will delay putting more car park spaces in naas train station to keep passenger numbers just under Hazelhatch so they don’t have to extend it 5 minutes further. There are literally no future proposals or plans anywhere further than citywest on the N7 corridor in terms of public transport. It’s dire. If you are a family and move to Naas, be sure to be able to fit at least four cars in the drive cause you’re not going to be using public transport.

Nothing they do with the M7 will change the absence of public transport along this corridor.

Naas now has a direct service run by JJ Kavanagh into Dublin City Centre, anytime I used it, it was practically empty even at peak times, so it seems the people of Naas have no real desire to use public transport.

Tomrota

soundman45 wrote: »

Naas now has a direct service run by JJ Kavanagh into Dublin City Centre, anytime I used it, it was practically empty even at peak times, so it seems the people of Naas have no real desire to use public transport.

Does that bus allow use of the LEAP card, taking advantage of LEAP 90 discount and fare capping like is possible in almost every similar town to Naas?

Everyone’s using the train cause it’s actually integrated with the system, allowing caps and tapping on. JJ kavanagh isn’t public transport, it’s private transport. So your point isn’t valid. And I might add, they charge extortionate prices due to lack of transport.

iwillhtfu

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

In theory

I'm almost certain I saw 100 km/h signs posted on the on ramp at Kerry foods. They're covered over but the wind had dislodged the plastic so it would appear the new section maybe losing the 120 km/h limit. To be honest though what harm I'm so used to the old days and crawling through there at sub 50 km/h at rush hour.

pad199207

Have to agree with all the above in regards to Naas.

The population of Naas has increased by a lot in the last 3-4 years with all these new housing developments. Adding Sallins and Johnstown then to all that I’d say would put the current population of between 30-35k. Easily the largest urban area in Kildare.

The public transport is just dire to serve a population such as this.

The Dart certainly needs to come down to Sallins/Naas not just Hazelhatch.

Dublin Bus needs to start up routes serving Naas, Johnstown, Kill and into town. Take the pressure off the 126 and 130 routes. Even extend the 69 to Kill, Johnstown and Naas( that would cover Citywest)

The JJ service is a decent route but no leap option and I agree with the user above that it’s more a private bus than public. The 139 is fine as it includes the leap option.

Go Ahead hopefully will increase the services on the 126/130 routes.

The Luas down to Naas is rather ambitious, but then again it could be done but unlikely to ever happen.

Kimbot

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I'm almost certain I saw 100 km/h signs posted on the on ramp at Kerry foods. They're covered over but the wind had dislodged the plastic so it would appear the new section maybe losing the 120 km/h limit. To be honest though what harm I'm so used to the old days and crawling through there at sub 50 km/h at rush hour.

im pretty sure the signs are actually 120km/h

iwillhtfu

Kimbot wrote: »

im pretty sure the signs are actually 120km/h

I probably misread it but caught in my mind that it said 100

I'd settle for either and it would be nice if they started clamping down on the social media lane

[Deleted User]

Im no Town planner but I've always thought they could spur out the sallins line to naas like this.
Now obviously there is more too it than this and also the NIMBYs but you get the idea.

Tomrota

BrownFinger wrote: »

Im no Town planner but I've always thought they could spur out the sallins line to naas like this.
Now obviously there is more too it than this and also the NIMBYs but you get the idea.

Now that’s the kind of thinking that would get people out of their cars and off the N7. If that site you plotted out was a DART station, had a HUGE park and ride car park, and could even serve as a bus hub- that would solve so many problems. It could also serve people coming from further away in Kildare and newbridge.

[Deleted User]

Its the perfect site.
It already borders the industrial estate and is directly connected to the N7.

ManAboutCouch

pad199207 wrote: »

The population of Naas has increased by a lot in the last 3-4 years with all these new housing developments. Adding Sallins and Johnstown then to all that I’d say would put the current population of between 30-35k. Easily the largest urban area in Kildare.

I'm not familiar with recent developments in Naas, but the population of the shaded area in the map below was 26,828 in 2011 and 28,327 in 2016, so 30,000+ would be expected by the next census in 2021, if not already.

WishUWereHere

soundman45 wrote: »

Naas now has a direct service run by JJ Kavanagh into Dublin City Centre, anytime I used it, it was practically empty even at peak times, so it seems the people of Naas have no real desire to use public transport.

I think this bus also serves Dublin Airport. I saw one of them leaving the airport with a board up saying it was. Going to Naas. Bar the driver, it was empty & this was. Around 12h30.