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Western Rail Corridor / Rail Trail Discussion

[Deleted User]

Carrying on with the discussion as the other thread is full

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2055766866/1

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westtip

Any news on the EY consulting report into the so called Western Rail Corridor yet?

Lord Glentoran

westtip wrote: »

Any news on the EY consulting report into the so called Western Rail Corridor yet?

Nope

westtip

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Nope

Difficult to understand how they can be taking so long to state the obvious!

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

Any news on the EY consulting report into the so called Western Rail Corridor yet?

I'd imagine that a certain td will be trying to delay it until after the election.
His worst nightmare would be its launch in the middle of his campaign.

Greaney

eastwest wrote: »

I'd imagine that a certain td will be trying to delay it until after the election.
His worst nightmare would be its launch in the middle of his campaign.

Indeed, 'A certain TD' has thrown himself so fully into the Western Rail Corridor failing (even though the trains are hitting capacity between Ennis & Athenry most journeys), that sucess will be a fail for him.

Think about that, the failure of badly needed infrastructure, serves a politicians election campaign, but not actually the country!!!! Even the 'other TD' who longs to rip up the rail for a greenway between Tuam & Athenry drew the line on knocking the rail from Ennis to Athenry!!:rolleyes:

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

Indeed, 'A certain TD' has thrown himself so fully into the Western Rail Corridor failing (even though the trains are hitting capacity between Ennis & Athenry most journeys), that sucess will be a fail for him.

Think about that, the failure of badly needed infrastructure, serves a politicians election campaign, but not actually the country!!!! Even the 'other TD' who longs to rip up the rail for a greenway between Tuam & Athenry drew the line on knocking the rail from Ennis to Athenry!!:rolleyes:

Trains are hitting capacity? Stick on a few extra carriages then. Ooops, forgot Irish Rail are practically bankrupt. Sure let's just give them more loss making lines to run instead

Greaney

Muckyboots wrote: »

Greaney wrote: »

Indeed, 'A certain TD' has thrown himself so fully into the Western Rail Corridor failing (even though the trains are hitting capacity between Ennis & Athenry most journeys), that sucess will be a fail for him./quote]

Trains are hitting capacity? Stick on a few extra carriages then. Ooops, forgot Irish Rail are practically bankrupt. Sure let's just give them more loss making lines to run instead.

We have many things in this country that don't make a profit but are good for us to have as a nation never the less. You know, things like schools, hospitals, roads, hell, even greenways don't actually make money....

We need mass transit. I don't know about where you're from but Galway is choked with traffic.... Anyways our government have no interest in Mass transit, the environment, or sustainable development. I dont' even know why they bother with a census because they still seem not be be able to plan for it's findings...
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/varadkar-move-blocked-funding-for-western-rail-corridor-1.3450236

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

Trains are hitting capacity? Stick on a few extra carriages then. Ooops, forgot Irish Rail are practically bankrupt. Sure let's just give them more loss making lines to run instead

almost every single line in the country is loss making.
irish rail does not operate on a commercial basis outside freight operations. it operates on government funding.
irish rail apparently being bankrupt is therefore irrelevant as is your point.

eastwest

end of the road wrote: »

almost every single line in the country is loss making.
irish rail does not operate on a commercial basis outside freight operations. it operates on government funding.
irish rail apparently being bankrupt is therefore irrelevant as is your point.

But some are more equal than others, you might say.
The WRC is the third worst in terms of loss making, and the demographics north of tuam are even less promising.
As the rail review will doubt let us know, after the election.

Greaney

eastwest wrote: »

But some are more equal than others, you might say.
The WRC is the third worst in terms of loss making, and the demographics north of tuam are even less promising.
As the rail review will doubt let us know, after the election.

Even though the corridor from Ennis to August wasn't busy at first (it didn't help that it opened just as the economy was collapsing), it's very busy now. A huge number of students doing daily commutes to Gort & Athenry to school, and third level students, who can't get accommodation in the city are all commuting to Galway & Limerick now. I know this because a) I use the train, b) I asked the ticket inspectors about it who say it's growing year on year, and c) Iarnrod Eireann were on the trains this summer between Athenry & Ennis with their clickers/counters to see what the latest figures are.

Once the rail re-opening was announced, developers started building housing estates in Craughwell, now I hear there's planning for more housing in Ardrahan. I know folk who bought in Craughwell in fact, because the train runs through it.

I've no doubt but it'll take a few years after the rail re-opens to the North and you'll see more housing in Ballyglunin etc. because it'll be more attractive to families when their children can go to secondary on the train (Athenry or Tuam?). On the downside, Tuam won't be as affordable for housing, as it'll be a real option in the commuter belt for Galway city. An annual commuter ticket, is about 1/3 the price of a second car so we can see families re-examining how they use their budget...

Finally, Irish rail desperately needs more rolling stock. They've a significant shortage. It'll need it soon on the WRC. The Galway Limerick is still x2 but they're reaching capacity. Galway-Dublin train was four, but has climbed to five carriages in the last two years. It's not like they can order it and it'll be ready in a month in Irish gauge.

eastwest

The lack of rolling stock is certainly an issue, with DART services expecting to have new stock in two years, but it's not really an issue on the wrc. Other commuter lines don't have seats for everybody -- try getting on any of the early morning services from Leixlip to Connolly for instance.

Greaney

eastwest wrote: »

The lack of rolling stock is certainly an issue, with DART services expecting to have new stock in two years, but it's not really an issue on the wrc. Other commuter lines don't have seats for everybody -- try getting on any of the early morning services from Leixlip to Connolly for instance.

It will need extra rolling stock soon.. Seriously, I use that train at a lot of different times throughout the day & week. It's growing.

CatInABox

Greaney wrote: »

It will need extra rolling stock soon.. Seriously, I use that train at a lot of different times throughout the day & week. It's growing.

Yes, it's growing, but the point isn't that this service is nearing capacity, it's that there's plenty of services already at or beyond capacity.

Add more carriages onto the Cork-Dublin, or Galway-Dublin services and they'd be full instantly, while adding more carriages onto the WRC would result in plenty of empty seats.

Muckyboots

end of the road wrote: »

almost every single line in the country is loss making.
irish rail does not operate on a commercial basis outside freight operations. it operates on government funding.
irish rail apparently being bankrupt is therefore irrelevant as is your point.

EU state aid rules apply to transport companies.The Irish government can invest what it likes in infrastructure but semi-states have to wash their face and compete on a level playing field with private companies.

end of the road

Muckyboots wrote: »

EU state aid rules apply to transport companies.The Irish government can invest what it likes in infrastructure but semi-states have to wash their face and compete on a level playing field with private companies.

you missunderstand that rule. it does not prevent government subsidizing services, only allow them to invest in infrastructure, and prohibit any services that don't survive on a commercial basis. the rule is essentially the government cannot give a semi-state favourable terms over another company, which they don't.
they are allowed to subsidize services, which they do. so again, it remains the case that outside freighte operations, irish rail do not operate on a commercial basis, but on the payments for operating contracted services, as they can do so.
also, it is only on the basis of tendering for the contract that they must compete on a level playing field with any private company who might want to tender for it, but there is unlikely to be a queue of such companies, and there certainly won't be any coming in to operate their own commercial passenger services.

serfboard

Greaney wrote: »

Galway is choked with traffic

Galway City is choked with traffic, Galway County is not.

And the students that you cite using the trains are not the ones choking up Galway City's traffic.

What's needed for Galway City is Park n' Rides on the outskirts of the city, with buses serving the industrial estates & GMIT, NUIG/UHG and the City Centre, delivered by more buses using Bus Lanes, which have been planned for, but not developed.

For City Centre passengers, there is a great PnR at Oranmore train station.

Train transit might work if Galway County had been properly planned, with people living in towns. Instead, local politicans built their careers on getting planning permissions for one-off housing in the countryside, creating a car-dependent population.

end of the road

serfboard wrote: »

Galway City is choked with traffic, Galway County is not.

And the students that you cite using the trains are not the ones choking up Galway City's traffic.

What's needed for Galway City is Park n' Rides on the outskirts of the city, with buses serving the industrial estates & GMIT, NUIG/UHG and the City Centre, delivered by more buses using Bus Lanes, which have been planned for, but not developed.

For City Centre passengers, there is a great PnR at Oranmore train station.

Train transit might work if Galway County had been properly planned, with people living in towns. Instead, local politicans built their careers on getting planning permissions for one-off housing in the countryside, creating a car-dependent population.

you are not going to get very many willing to waste their time going to a park and ride to get on a bus that travels along some paint job bus lane.
as much as some want to keep pushing busses as the solution for galway and other city's transport needs they are just never going to cut it as the majority pt solution, we have tried that solution for decades and it just does not work.
on the other hand we know light rail works in attracting passengers and that is the only way of solving the majority of pt needs for a city with bus taking on the real outlier areas.

Greaney

Crikey!! For a commuting & transport thread there's an awful lot of people who'd either

1) Don't take the train but like to talk about it.
2) Would like to see the Western Rail Corridor fail!!
3) Assume everyone has a car!!
4) Assumes greenways are preferable to mass transit
5) Thinks Parents can drive their children everywhere
6) over estimates how wheelchair friendly buses are.....

I just don't get it.
Just for the record, I'm a cycling advocate and live in a one car household (In the county, which is a miracle). I organise cycling events in the town I live in. Most of those who use their bike as a commuting solution would love our rail system invested in, supported and extended. I just don't get it.... why would someone talk down rail??? I work with teens, and public transport is their lifeline. Personally, I didn't drive till I was 30 and was very frustrated that I couldn't get to where I needed to go without a car!!!! My family missed out because of that...… I dunno

As an even organiser, to be on the rail line makes you a host of choice for sporting event's etc. because you've the infrastructure to take folk who don't have many other travel options.

Och

Isambard

Greaney wrote: »

Crikey!! For a commuting & transport thread there's an awful lot of people who'd either

1) Don't take the train but like to talk about it.
2) Would like to see the Western Rail Corridor fail!!
3) Assume everyone has a car!!
4) Assumes greenways are preferable to mass transit
5) Thinks Parents can drive their children everywhere
6) over estimates how wheelchair friendly buses are.....

I just don't get it.
Just for the record, I'm a cycling advocate and live in a one car household (In the county, which is a miracle). I organise cycling events in the town I live in. Most of those who use their bike as a commuting solution would love our rail system invested in, supported and extended. I just don't get it.... why would someone talk down rail??? I work with teens, and public transport is their lifeline. Personally, I didn't drive till I was 30 and was very frustrated that I couldn't get to where I needed to go without a car!!!! My family missed out because of that...… I dunno

As an even organiser, to be on the rail line makes you a host of choice for sporting event's etc. because you've the infrastructure to take folk who don't have many other travel options.

Och

it's quite simple, a line running from one city to another has struggled to establish itself and has still to meet the projections for it. A line from a City running through quite empty countryside to nowhere in particular has less chance of being a success.

Many people opposing the line north from Athenry are merely concerned that any available funds are applied where they will be of maximum benefit.

donvito99

Greaney wrote: »

Crikey!! For a commuting & transport thread there's an awful lot of people who'd either

1) Don't take the train but like to talk about it.
2) Would like to see the Western Rail Corridor fail!!
3) Assume everyone has a car!!
4) Assumes greenways are preferable to mass transit
5) Thinks Parents can drive their children everywhere
6) over estimates how wheelchair friendly buses are.....

I just don't get it.
Just for the record, I'm a cycling advocate and live in a one car household (In the county, which is a miracle). I organise cycling events in the town I live in. Most of those who use their bike as a commuting solution would love our rail system invested in, supported and extended. I just don't get it.... why would someone talk down rail??? I work with teens, and public transport is their lifeline. Personally, I didn't drive till I was 30 and was very frustrated that I couldn't get to where I needed to go without a car!!!! My family missed out because of that...… I dunno

As an even organiser, to be on the rail line makes you a host of choice for sporting event's etc. because you've the infrastructure to take folk who don't have many other travel options.

Och

Is it possible to call WRC mass transit and maintain a straight face?

end of the road

donvito99 wrote: »

Is it possible to call WRC mass transit and maintain a straight face?

oh absolutely, of course it is very much so.

Grandeeod

end of the road wrote: »

oh absolutely, of course it is very much so.

Since the WRC farce was exposed in 2004 and after 1000s of pages of discussion on this forum and the fact that the WRC runs through rural Ireland, you can stand over a claim that it's a mass transit project???:eek:

Deluded. Stupid. Crazy. Daft. Mad. I could keep typing similar words in response to your post, but I'll laugh instead at the sheer cheek of it.:D

Del.Monte

It's a potentially useful link line that was run into the ground by CIE and should have never closed in the first place. I have no vested interest in seeing it reopened as I have it ticked off - in both directions - many times but believe that it should be reopened and properly operated. CIE don't feature in any real future for the line in my opinion.

Lord Glentoran

Greaney wrote: »

Crikey!! For a commuting & transport thread there's an awful lot of people who'd either

1) Don't take the train but like to talk about it.
2) Would like to see the Western Rail Corridor fail!!
3) Assume everyone has a car!!
4) Assumes greenways are preferable to mass transit
5) Thinks Parents can drive their children everywhere
6) over estimates how wheelchair friendly buses are.....

I just don't get it.
Just for the record, I'm a cycling advocate and live in a one car household (In the county, which is a miracle). I organise cycling events in the town I live in. Most of those who use their bike as a commuting solution would love our rail system invested in, supported and extended. I just don't get it.... why would someone talk down rail??? I work with teens, and public transport is their lifeline. Personally, I didn't drive till I was 30 and was very frustrated that I couldn't get to where I needed to go without a car!!!! My family missed out because of that...… I dunno

As an even organiser, to be on the rail line makes you a host of choice for sporting event's etc. because you've the infrastructure to take folk who don't have many other travel options.

Och

Why would someone talk down rail? That’s a very interesting question all right. We know the reason why the proposed commuter rail to Navan didn’t happen - the operator of the PPP Motorway was guaranteed minimum levels of income by the then Government. There is a thread elsewhere on Boards where the bus advocates are now strangely silent because no matter how many buses BÉ and private operators throw at Navan, they cannot cope adequately with demand.

Galway is also grinding to a halt but the only Approved Option on Boards for some posters is the outer bypass - when the most vocal posters on the old WRC thread swore that the extension of the motorway from Gort to Tuam would “kill” the WRC. Spoiler - it didn’t.

Greaney

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Why would someone talk down rail? That’s a very interesting question all right. We know the reason why the proposed commuter rail to Navan didn’t happen - the operator of the PPP Motorway was guaranteed minimum levels of income by the then Government. There is a thread elsewhere on Boards where the bus advocates are now strangely silent because no matter how many buses BÉ and private operators throw at Navan, they cannot cope adequately with demand.

Galway is also grinding to a halt but the only Approved Option on Boards for some posters is the outer bypass - when the most vocal posters on the old WRC thread swore that the extension of the motorway from Gort to Tuam would “kill” the WRC. Spoiler - it didn’t.

You're right it didn't, because a huge number of people, don't or can't drive!! I'm stumped! Are they on this thread trolling? I live on that train line and it's started to hop with passengers in the past three years. I've made vids about it and posted them. I've gone down on Sunday nights physically counted the numbers and filmed the transfers from the Dub-Gal line at Athenry to get on the Limerick line.

Gosh I'd rather better funded public services in a heartbeat, than an extra fiver a week after the budget. In my old age I may loose my sight or mobility and the train line would be a God send. Tuams' home to an Irish Wheelchair assoc. office, can you imagine public transport it's members could actually use???

Greaney

Isambard wrote: »

it's quite simple, a line running from one city to another has struggled to establish itself and has still to meet the projections for it.

Just because you say it, doesn't make it true!!

https://connachttribune.ie/western-rail-corridor-user-numbers-exceed-expectations/

ohographite

donvito99 wrote: »

Is it possible to call WRC mass transit and maintain a straight face?

I wouldn't say that railways need to carry massive numbers of people to make sense.
The Ennis - Athenry section's patronage(390 passengers daily, or 39 per average train) is, at least in my opinion, an acceptable patronage to fund a railway for.

donvito99

ohographite wrote: »

I wouldn't say that railways need to carry massive numbers of people to make sense.
The Ennis - Athenry section's patronage(390 passengers daily, or 39 per average train) is, at least in my opinion, an acceptable patronage to fund a railway for.

So less than a full complement of coach passengers, on average

L1011

Lord Glentoran wrote: »

Why would someone talk down rail? That’s a very interesting question all right. We know the reason why the proposed commuter rail to Navan didn’t happen - the operator of the PPP Motorway was guaranteed minimum levels of income by the then Government. There is a thread elsewhere on Boards where the bus advocates are now strangely silent because no matter how many buses Band private operators throw at Navan, they cannot cope adequately with demand.

Galway is also grinding to a halt but the only Approved Option on Boards for some posters is the outer bypass - when the most vocal posters on the old WRC thread swore that the extension of the motorway from Gort to Tuam would “kill” the WRC. Spoiler - it didn’t.

Your conspiracy theory rather unravels itself when you mention the multiple extra buses being run that would have the same impact on tolls

The M3 now receives no subvention. The railway line hasn't been extended due to incompetence, not some pathetic conspiracy

Lord Glentoran

L1011 wrote: »

Your conspiracy theory rather unravels itself when you mention the multiple extra buses being run that would have the same impact on tolls

The M3 now receives no subvention. The railway line hasn't been extended due to incompetence, not some pathetic conspiracy

Your emotive language says a lot about how brittle the anti rail position is. For everyone else, Google shadow tolls on the M3.