ancapailldorcha wrote: » Can you provide a link to show that the leave vote was driven in any significant part by this colonial attitude you allude to?.
prawnsambo wrote: » "Do you think Britain could re-establish the empire once it leaves the EU?" I'd like to try and ask that question, just to see if it would elicit the kind of response referred to.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » Whitehall officials were even describing the post-Brexit deals in Africa as Empire 2.0
ToBeFrank123 wrote: » Most of the downturns in the UK were unrelated to EU membership since they joined. The problems of the 70s were related to the Oil crisis and also excessive wage demands from unions. The downturns of the late 80s related to a capitalism boom in the UK. The recession of 2008 related to subprime boom in the US. Before membership, the UK was engaged in two world wars, rationing for almost 10 years after WW2, various economic downturns and maybe a brief period of growth during the 1960s before EU membership. The collapse in traditional industries barring maybe fishing is related to cheap imports from the likes of China or collapse in demand for coal. So, the UK before EU membership was in all probability a pretty miserable place with appalling environmental standards, poor working conditions and poor living standards. A treat for workers was a weeks holiday at a seaside resort, and travel to far and distant places which today is the norm would have been far removed for most people. Without question most people are better off today in the UK, even those on the dole!
Zubeneschamali wrote: » Johnson on problems in ex-colonies: The problem is not that we were once in charge, but that we are not in charge any more... Consider Uganda, pearl of Africa, as an example of the British record. … the British planted coffee and cotton and tobacco, and they were broadly right... If left to their own devices, the natives would rely on nothing but the instant carbohydrate gratification of the plantain. You never saw a place so abounding in bananas: great green barrel-sized bunches, off to be turned into matooke. Though this dish (basically fried banana) was greatly relished by Idi Amin, the colonists correctly saw that the export market was limited... The best fate for Africa would be if the old colonial powers, or their citizens, scrambled once again in her direction; on the understanding that this time they will not be asked to feel guilty.
prawnsambo wrote: » Tired Gardener wrote: » I agree with all of what you have said, apart from saying that there is no 'special agreement' between the UK and the USA. Because that is factual incorrect, a quick Google search will show that the 'SA' has been around since 1941.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement The media in the UK are I believe to blame for a lot of the anti-EU lies that get thrown around, Banning Milk Chocolate, banning bendy bananas, etc. Sadly the UK's educational institution isn't aimed at equipping people with the tools to think critically. So they lap this up, while also living in some of the biggest wealth gaps in all of Europe. The richest region in Western Europe is London, 9 of the poorest regions are with in the UK... 6/7 of those are in the North of England. Then add in 10 years of austerity and seeing the quality of life go down. Add in that the UK has only recently lost its Empire (1996/7), and a good number of people who were alive to vote in the 2016 referendum would have had a miss placed love of the Empire. From their perspective they have seen things being lost. We know he Empire was a horrific thing, but to some it was seen as a badge if pride. It really wasn't a surprise that the UK voted to Leave, what is surprising is that the Remain vote was as high as it was. Brexit is a beast birthed from many bastards. I also think that it is the wrestle with its own identity that the UK needs. The UK needs to shed off the old, and be able to play fairly with a group where it is an equal. That's not quite the same thing as the so-called special relationship. Five Eyes is a signals intelligence co-operative that existed (as you say) since 1941. The special relationship is supposed to be a kind of entente cordiale between the USA and the UK. Supposedly making them allies as well as trade partners. The trade partnership has fallen away with the UK joining the EU and never amounted to much in any case and the alliance didn't hold up well during the Falklands War when the USA felt that their relationship with Argentina was more important.
Tired Gardener wrote: » I agree with all of what you have said, apart from saying that there is no 'special agreement' between the UK and the USA. Because that is factual incorrect, a quick Google search will show that the 'SA' has been around since 1941.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement The media in the UK are I believe to blame for a lot of the anti-EU lies that get thrown around, Banning Milk Chocolate, banning bendy bananas, etc. Sadly the UK's educational institution isn't aimed at equipping people with the tools to think critically. So they lap this up, while also living in some of the biggest wealth gaps in all of Europe. The richest region in Western Europe is London, 9 of the poorest regions are with in the UK... 6/7 of those are in the North of England. Then add in 10 years of austerity and seeing the quality of life go down. Add in that the UK has only recently lost its Empire (1996/7), and a good number of people who were alive to vote in the 2016 referendum would have had a miss placed love of the Empire. From their perspective they have seen things being lost. We know he Empire was a horrific thing, but to some it was seen as a badge if pride. It really wasn't a surprise that the UK voted to Leave, what is surprising is that the Remain vote was as high as it was. Brexit is a beast birthed from many bastards. I also think that it is the wrestle with its own identity that the UK needs. The UK needs to shed off the old, and be able to play fairly with a group where it is an equal.
Shelga wrote: » Of the dozens of middle-aged men from the West Midlands I know who voted Brexit, a superiority complex, colonial complex, or whatever you’d like to call it, played a massive part. These people simply think they are better than people from other countries. That’s the truth of it. No, they’re not going to come out and say that to a poll-taker, and no one is going to format a question like that in a survey anyway.
murphaph wrote: » The comments sections of the right wing UK press went into overdrive this afternoon as news reports incorrectly stated that the trailer carrying those 39 poor unfortunates came in via Holyhead.
sondagefaux wrote: » Apparently it first entered Britain via Holyhead.
Letwin_Larry wrote: » absolutely the route they claimed the truck made just made no sense whatsoever. quite possible the driver had no idea what was in the trailer, and was simply contracted to travel to Essex and then deliver it to wherever. some reportage comparing him with The Yorkshire Ripper and Harold Shipman are totally wrong imo.
Letwin_Larry wrote: » the truck/tractor did but the trailer came over from Zeebrugge into Purfleet. those poor people may well have been dead before he even arrived. disgusting whatever, but the driver may be totally innocent.
Sam Russell wrote: » I used the term 'Special Relationship' not 'Special Agreement'. There is a huge difference. I may have an agreement to buy a car from someone, but if that someone is my brother, then it is different as we both have to live with it if there is a problem. Not the same with a stranger. The UK had an agreement with the USA during the 2nd WW which was call 'Lend Lease' where the USA sold munitions and supplies to the UK, and got payment after hostilities ended. This bankrupted the UK. They had an agreement on nuclear weapons, but the UK had to stop developing and buy USA trident. They had an agreement on computers, but the UK had to abandon development in favour of US computers. etc etc etc. Agreement ended up in buying American, or follow USA into war - but not the other way round. That is the basis of an agreement, that is true. The UK lost its Empire in 1948 when India became independent. India was the Empire - the rest were just colonies. The colonies were lost to uprises and revolutions by native populations against the colonial power. Ireland on the other hand visits the White House every year to celebrate St Patrick's Day, and holds the St Patrick's Day Parade in NY on St Patrick's Day every year - one of very few parades held on the actual day. Most US presidents visit Ireland to help their re-election. Most US politicians like to emphasise any Irish heritage. Now that is a relationship.
Tired Gardener wrote: » https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Relationship Sorry to derail this, but the UK and the US do have a special relationship, it is an unofficial term for the 'unparralled closesness' of the two countries, no other two countries are as close. The big difference is that while the people of US have a very favourable view towards Ireland, it is the US governments that have a favourable view towards the UK. The UK is still after all the world's 5th largest economy and has a very large modern military, so has more to offer in a relationship.
Tired Gardener wrote: » https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Relationship Sorry to derail this, but the UK and the US do have a special relationship, it is an unofficial term for the 'unparralled closesness' of the two countries, no other two countries are as close. The big difference is that while the people of US have a very favourable view towards Ireland, it is the US governments that have a favourable view towards the UK. The UK is still after all the world's 5th largest economy and has a very large modern military, so has more to offer in a relationship. .
Tired Gardener wrote: » Losing Hong Kong was the end of the British Empire, yes losing Indian would have been a massive blow to the Empire, but the British Empire still had many African nations. The last to be given independence was Zimbabwe in 1980, some view that as the end of the Empire, bit historically it was with Hong Kong. It could be argued that the Empire was over with the end of WW1, just given the sheer colossal size of it, it took nearly 100 years for it to die.
Sam Russell wrote: » Victoria was declared Empress of India. It was after that declaration when reference to 'The British Empire' and 'British India' started and the myth of he Great British Empire was extended to all British colonies. When India gained independence in 1948, the Empire ceased. Inia has a flag that is green, white and gold because it was the second country to break away from the British. I wonder who was the first?
Going Strong wrote: » I read somewhere that this demographic is mostly the same one that, 40 years ago, took a gamble on Margaret Thatcher. The curbing of trade unions, deregulating nationalised utilities and breaking open the housing market benefited them and they saw Brexit as another opportunity to diminish state control once again. After all, they've voted Conservative to impose austerity on "Work Shy Scroungers" and deter immigrants from "Clogging up the NHS". Brexit should return sovereignty to Westminster to remove any EU-related impediments to further cuts in government spending so that "The Squeezed Middle" such as themselves can be feather-bedded some more. In short, they feel that, whatever downsides there might be to Brexit, they will be immune from it and relatively wealthy enough to profit from it at the expense of the 'undeserving'.
GM228 wrote: » Just another way to frustrate MPs:-https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/status/1187063196345163776?s=19 He writes like a doctor, but at least he signed it
Joe_ Public wrote: » Would you normally expect such a letter to be typed? I cant even read it. Seemed to be some difficulty with Priti Patel too, heard one mp mention in the house yesterday they had been trying to get her in front of a select committee since august, at least thats what i thought i heard?
GM228 wrote: » I would think so, but you would also normally expect a PM to attend.
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