Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Nice work.

Quick query though, as my understanding that the requirement of an install under seai guidelines is that in the event of a power cut, obviously the mains us disconnected and you are left with your "essential load" circuit still running, but that also the dc input into the inverter is disconnected, so even if the solar is producing, you cannot charge your battery from it ?

Any chance you could post up a bit of how you wired your backup circuits ?

Very simple, just a mains ac extension lead and socket wired directly in to the special Solis plug and plugged in to the second of the two mains exit sockets on the base of the Solis hybrid inverter. That is not the difficult part, the difficult part is ensuring that each of the 3 or 4 intricate menus on the Solis under 'advanced settings' are set to allow AC to continue to be generated even though there is no AC supply. If you are interested to know my settings PM me at dalnwick@gmail.com and I will send you screen shots of my settings.

Northumberland wrote: »

I can only continue to run essential loads from the batteries at the moment I think

I'm pretty sure it's supposed to work exactly like that. You will have battery but not PV while the grid is down.

So in case of a storm coming, you could fully charge the battery the day before from the grid, so you have a full battery when the grid goes down. And use your essentials load connection AC to power your essentials.

Tilikum17

Selling the house at the minute & bidding on another at the moment. It’s a 3 bed bungalow with converted attic.

Basically chatting to a guy today and he was telling us to get 12 panels on the house? Seems like an awful lot??

Does anyone know roughly how much it would cost with the grants to fit a solar panel & battery system?

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Does anyone know roughly how much it would cost with the grants to fit a solar panel & battery system?

That's what this thread is all about. Have a read of the last few pages and you can see what quotes people are getting.

BTW 12 panels isn't all that much. A panel is about 300W, so that's 3.6kW

Several people in this thread have got a 6kW system, that's the max allowed. So that's about 20 panels. Go for as many as fit your roof is what I would advice. Installing extra panels adds very little to the cost of the project. And once the panels are up, they will stay up and perform for you for many decades to come.

This "fireman's shunt" sounds like a complete waste of time tbh, the panels are still outputting power upstream of any disconnect that's put in place.

I believe there are blanketing foams marketed to fire services which would be much more effective I'd imagine.

The only way to isolate an array fully would be to disconnect between each individual panel, which would reduce the maximum voltage to a safe level.

A micro inverter array would meet this requirement once the mains to the building is isolated.

I have 14 panels, and am planning to add a few more (but that is of course expensive, having to pay for scaffolding to go up again etc). What people forget is that 12 panels is 3.6kW peak - that is at mid-day with full unobscured sun, in the middle of summer you might just get 3.6kW, but in October in Ireland, with a half cloudy sky you will get perhaps 1.8kW or 2.0 kW or something. So, if you really want - say 3.6kW in Ireland for most 'average' days in the months September to April then you would need 14 or 16 panels.

The firefighters shunt was certainly not my idea, but it is apparently an SEAI requirement, I was informed, after an audit inspection, that I would not get my grant (Euros 3,800) unless they were fitted, so waste of time or not, that is what I had to do!

Yes, that is what I will do. But that assumes of course that you follow the weather forecast, and that the weather forecast is accurate. In addition, I am going to change the max discharge of my batteries, currently set at 20%, to a higher level, perhaps 40%. In the event of a power cut I will be able to reduce that from the menu down to say 10%, giving me 30% of battery capacity to power lights etc.

_dof_

Northumberland wrote: »

Very simple, just a mains ac extension lead and socket wired directly in to the special Solis plug and plugged in to the second of the two mains exit sockets on the base of the Solis hybrid inverter.

Are those essential load circuits powered up at all times or only when there is a power cut?

At all times.

I'm going to use mine (mounted as a waterproof external socket outdoors) for cutting the grass, washing the car. Charging the car even.

As Unkel says, powered all the time, but the output voltage is independently adjustable

wexfordman2

Northumberland wrote: »

Yes, that is what I will do. But that assumes of course that you follow the weather forecast, and that the weather forecast is accurate. In addition, I am going to change the max discharge of my batteries, currently set at 20%, to a higher level, perhaps 40%. In the event of a power cut I will be able to reduce that from the menu down to say 10%, giving me 30% of battery capacity to power lights etc.

Make sure your wifi router is on the essential load circuit :-)

Als0 worth checking, are you connecting to a local ip address or do you need a full internet connectivity to access a portal?

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Apart from solatricity.ie where else is a good source to direct buy Solar PV kits?

Bump

Has anyone on the forum done a direct labour install rather than via the grant?
What would the costs for mounting and wiring be?

A full 12 panel kit (3.6kWp and 3kW Solis inverter) is costing about €2800 inc vat inc del from Solartricity. Can they be got for better value than that?

I'm thinking I'll be lucky to get it done for €4500 as its on slate and scaffolding is required. Would like to hear if anyone has done it outside grant and what the labour costs were.

Alkers

KCross wrote: »

Bump

Has anyone on the forum done a direct labour install rather than via the grant?
What would the costs for mounting and wiring be?

A full 12 panel kit (3.6kWp and 3kW Solis inverter) is costing about €2800 inc vat inc del from Solartricity. Can they be got for better value than that?

I'm thinking I'll be lucky to get it done for €4500 as its on slate and scaffolding is required. Would like to hear if anyone has done it outside grant and what the labour costs were.

I got a quote or two and it was astronomical and the installer was reluctant to do the job without supplying the goods themselves.

KCross wrote: »

A full 12 panel kit (3.6kWp and 3kW Solis inverter) is costing about €2800 inc vat inc del from Solartricity. Can they be got for better value than that?

Midsummer.ie (a large UK wholesaler) have recently set up shop in Ireland. A quick look at their website for some stuff a while ago showed me prices that were on a par, or a bit above solartricity though, but have a look for yourself

Highly recommend solartricity though. Respected company and the lads are very helpful and extremely knowledgeable with experience going back decades.

garo

Well done Northumberland on getting the essential load stuff working. My Growatt inverter also has that option. A separate EPS output but requires a bit of config and I am too lazy. Living in Dublin I will only need it rarely so not worth the effort. The other issue is that my inverter’s instructions said to connect either the EPS or the AC-grid but not both. Not sure why but I hope to foond our eventually.

[Deleted User]

air wrote: »

I never argued the opposite, however the fact remains that lithium batteries have a finite calendar life. I have lithium packs from 2005 onwards and some have expired during storage after very few cycles. To a certain extent you may as well cycle them before they expire of natural causes!

I remain highly sceptical. Certainly storing them at fully charged or depleted will destroy them. The are highly resilient at 50% SOC although that idle profile doesn't suit standby applications very well.

Certainly not an issue for well maintained lead acid.

air wrote: »

While I agree I think you're overestimating the impact of distributing the arrays.

Am I? 10 panels east, 5 south 10 West have a better ROI than an integrated battery.

air wrote: »

However a battery is another level in terms of smoothing demand and reducing import. We frequently have cloudy weather which leads to very peaky production, demand is also very peaky by it's nature.
A battery really helps to bridge the gap between production and demand during the day while the solar is producing. Even a small battery is a big help in this regard.

I'm not denying any of this however battery power is really expensive.
It is unlikely to make a profit or return better than the energy invested to make it...so what is the point?

Unless utility power is not an option.
Power suppliers in order of lower cost per unit:

Solar.
Grid.
Wind.
Diesel.

Battery?...not an energy provider!...It's an energy collector...re-evaluate.

air wrote: »

I'm not familiar with the SEAI guidelines but an automatic DC disconnect would require an expensive contactor as well as separate mains failure sensing. I've never seen one used.

Me neither it's a shameful disgrace they're fitting liability boxes instead of protective switchgear.

The "standard" battery disconnect seems to be a non-DC rated three phase fuse carriage isolator. Nor are they Loaded disconnect rated.

battery-inverter_fuse_switch_disconnect_3-pole.png?width=800

battery-inverter_fuse_switch_disconnect_3-pole.png?width=800

They behave like this in an emergency isolation;

I'm still waiting to hear back from the SEAI about their sign off on installations including these and high frequency inverters with A and AC type earth leakage detection devices.

garo

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Am I? 10 panels east, 5 south 10 West have a better ROI than an integrated battery.

Not everyone has the luxury of having a roofs facing in 3 directions or to be able to accommodate 25 panels. And an SEAI subsidised battery does have a positive ROI. I wish there was a FIT or net metering in place instead. But there seems to be zero political will for that. So in the absence of either a subsidised battery makes sense.

They behave like this in an emergency isolation;

I'm still waiting to hear back from the SEAI about their sign off on installations including these and high frequency inverters with A and AC type earth leakage detection devices.

This is a definite problem and a lot of the regulations seem to be tick box exercises.

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Am I? 10 panels east, 5 south 10 West have a better ROI than an integrated battery.

Yes you are, you've plenty of theory but are lacking in actual experience with regard to the what you're arguing about.

Funnily enough you've almost exactly described my own installation.
I've 11 panels East, 6 South and 10 West, running for multiple years so I think i'm in a good position to comment on the relative merits.

You're not accounting for the difference between the theory and the real world.
A battery allows for a lot more flexibility for increasing self consumption than optimised array orientations.
Not everyone is home all day waiting for the sun to peak out to turn on the kettle.
Finally as has been mentioned not everyone has the option of installing a 3 orientation array. Almost anyone can install a battery system on the other hand.

As regard the economics, that's a moveable feast and the cost of lithium batteries is continuing to drop at a rapid rate while grid energy is only moving in the other direction.
Also a battery is almost mandatory from an economic perspective if availing of the SEAI grant scheme.

air wrote: »

Also a battery is almost mandatory from an economic perspective if availing of the SEAI grant scheme.

That's an interesting way of putting it

And you're not wrong. If you are going to avail of the SEAI grant, it makes the most sense to go for a 4kWh system with a small battery

Even if you rip the battery out straight away and sell it

geo88

Can someone clarify one aspect of the planning permission for solar panels?

My understanding that the < 12sqm/50% of roof area exemption applies to the whole roof, I heard certain people mention that's only for the front of the house - and you can put as many panels as you want on the back of the house?

Does anyone have any experience with that? Or is it the case that PP is required, but is always granted for the back of the house part?

You need planning for anything over 12sqm, whether they are installed to the front or the back of the house makes no difference.

In practice it appears that enforcement action for violating this is unlikely now and there is some prospect of the restrictions being removed in the future.

On the subject of Planning Permission, I have four things to say which might be of interest to others. First of all, on my own installation I DID apply for Planning Permission, I first installed 7 panels on one side of the roof, which were within the exempt limit, applied for permission, which was granted, and then got 7 more panels on the other side of the roof. This was not ideal, scaffolding up twice etc, but it did work. You need to remember that the preparation of a Planning Application for putting up a few solar panels is the same as if you were doubling the size of your house, you have to provide complete plans of the whole house, you have to say how your waste water is processed etc etc - why your sewage arrangements have any relevance to panels on the roof is beyond me, but there it is, somebody said that is what has to happen, and the Council's look for it without considering why they want it or need it. I called my Council and said, surely there must be a shortcut, and the reply was, absolutely not, the whole thing is needed with all of the expense that entails, and including the newspaper notices, which are not even properly indexed or categorised and which nobody ever looks at, but the newspapers are happy, perhaps it is almost there soul source of revenue these days!.

The second thing is for anybody considering a new installation beyond the exempt limit, look at the experience of the woman in Limerick, I think it was, reported by the Irish Times a week or so ago. Council refused a retention application, told her to remove panels, threatened fines and huge costs. She appealed to the planning appeals board, they upheld the Council's rejection (made on spurious - interferes with appearance of estate), but then she took her appeal to the next stage, and her appeal was upheld, she was allowed to keep her panels by the highest level of Government - surely that must set a precedent in Law, and I would have thought that other County Councils are going to be very cautious before rejecting retention applications (made after the work has been done) based on this case, and probably in going after people who put up more than the exempt area. But of course, while that low limit (just 6 or 7 panels) is on the law books, you could have trouble selling your house later when the solicitor for the buyers discover you did works which required planning permission which you did not have. Incidentally, I much prefer to see a house evenly covered with 14 or 20 panels, compared to a house with just a small bunch of 7 panels on one side, unsymetrical and ugly looking.

Thirdly, as part of my SEAI grant application, SEAI sent an inspector to look at the installation - he asked me why I had put up the panels at two different times, and I explained about waiting for planning permission - he said - uh - oh - not really needed! Hmm, I am not going to share his name, and this was an 'off the record' comment I am sure, but I thought it was interesting (having spent at least 250 Euros of the solar grant, that I am still waiting for, in giving the Council the plans of my sewers etc!)

Finally, in preparing my application for Planning Permission - I did a lot of the work myself - I started by looking for examples of similar applications in my County (Cavan) that I could 'copy from'. I found none, so I looked in neighbouring Counties - almost none, so I looked all over Ireland, loading up the Council Planning records website for each County in turn and looking at applications made over the last 2 years for Solar panels on a domestic house roof. I think I found 2, perhaps 3. A lot of applications for big installations on chicken farms, quite a lot with Solar panels included on a major rennovation or extension, but very very few for - say 14 panels on the roof or a regular house. Either people are sticking within the exempt limit, or ignoring it.

Sorry if my last post was a little long. But there is an almost ready made story for any 'green and keen' budding young Irish journalist, an Irish Greta Thunberg? if there are any out there. Readers might want to forward this, or perhaps the moderators of this thread know how to link it to the Boards.ie environmental action thread. All the journalist has to do is a) find out how many people in Ireland have received the full SEAI grant for installing 4kW of solar panels since the scheme started, they might have to file a Freedom of Information request to get this, perhaps not. Next, do an online search of planning approvals for the same period, easy, already in the public domain. Just go to the website of each Co Co in the 32 counties, and search for any planning application mentioning the word 'solar', delete those where solar is linked to a bigger expansion project or an agricutural site, we are interested in standard domestic home applications. Then compare the results of these two little searches, and bingo, they will most probably be able to clearly show that one arm of Government, Planning and Co Co's are busy shooting another arm of Government, the SEAI, in the foot, and frustrating the roll out of sustainable green energy in Ireland. Anybody out there? (certainly not in Friends of the Earth, Ireland, who seem moribund, anyone looked at their website? what about the Green Party?

I wouldn't bother with any of that Northumberland. As air already said, someone won a case against the planning board for having the front of her house plastered with panels without planning permission

The precedent is set, no one needs any planning permission any more for any PV installs. It will no longer be enforced.

Charlie-Bravo

I don't really want to go over old ground with the planning case. You still need planning, whether it's a retention application or getting planning the usual way. With the Limerick case, she did apply for retention after a complaint, got refused by council, the pleanala inspector didn't like it either but got granted ultimately by the board.

The key point is that she has planning permission for her development. Yes, there's tonnes of people beyond exempt development at this stage. So perhaps the councils won't bother enforcing it unless a neighbour gets the hump and complains. They'll have to follow due procedure. And as the above poster said, it's really not until you go to sell your house that the headache arises (so just take all of the installation with you

Yeah not being fully planning compliant would be a pain when selling alright. But I'd say most people putting up expensive PV have no plan to move in the next 10 years anyway, by which time I have no doubt all these planning permission rules for EV will be gone. They should be gone! We have far bigger things to worry about than old Mary from down the road not liking the newfangled shiny thingies on the roof and ringing up the council about it to rat you out

wexfordman2

Northumberland wrote: »

Sorry if my last post was a little long. But there is an almost ready made story for any 'green and keen' budding young Irish journalist, an Irish Greta Thunberg? if there are any out there. Readers might want to forward this, or perhaps the moderators of this thread know how to link it to the Boards.ie environmental action thread. All the journalist has to do is a) find out how many people in Ireland have received the full SEAI grant for installing 4kW of solar panels since the scheme started, they might have to file a Freedom of Information request to get this, perhaps not. Next, do an online search of planning approvals for the same period, easy, already in the public domain. Just go to the website of each Co Co in the 32 counties, and search for any planning application mentioning the word 'solar', delete those where solar is linked to a bigger expansion project or an agricutural site, we are interested in standard domestic home applications. Then compare the results of these two little searches, and bingo, they will most probably be able to clearly show that one arm of Government, Planning and Co Co's are busy shooting another arm of Government, the SEAI, in the foot, and frustrating the roll out of sustainable green energy in Ireland. Anybody out there? (certainly not in Friends of the Earth, Ireland, who seem moribund, anyone looked at their website? what about the Green Party?

Or, just ask the seai under a foil how many solar Grant's in excess of 1400 euro were paid in each county.

digzy

Hi lads
Looking for a bit of free info please
I live in an old house. I've new windows and attic insulated. I've the air to water system installed. My electricity bills have been seriously steep (6k over last 9 months). hence I'm looking into other sources of electricity. I was given the following quote

1. 26 x 310 Mono JA Panels
2. 1 x Solax Inverter 3 Phase
3. 1 x 9kw Solax Battery
4. Ground works for cable to be done by client as per agreed and discount allowance included.

Caldor will process all grant paperwork & will claim the grant on your behalf. BER included as standard.

Total price would be €18,500 inc. Vat (after grant)

I was told by the rep/engineer that I'd be shaving 60% off the bills which I'd be happy with. However, I'm hearing that these panels may not have that kind of payback.

Do the sums add up?

thanks in advance