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COOLOCK residents are moving to try to block plans

lola85

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/reeling-in-disbelief-north-dublin-residents-bid-to-block-highrise-development-in-coolock-38451308.html

“The scheme will house a total of 88 one, two and three-bedroom apartments. Permission was granted despite 238 formal objections lodged by residents who are deeply opposed to the development for a number of reasons.”

Seriously will we ever solve this homeless crisis with most developments been opposed by locals??

How can we ever make progress on this issue???

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Thelonious Monk

Yeah I heard that car park rule before, ridiculous in a city.
I'm pretty sure the malahide road is getting bus connects, really there should be a bus lane going all the way from Clare Hall to the city centre that is not obstructed with parking and cars and taxis and bottlenecks, but it seems the public don't want this either as they'll lose bits of their garden or something.
So nothing is going to change, onwards and outwards we go!

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well Darndale and Clarehall aren't Coolock.

Coolock Area

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Also Clarehall rough? News to me!

Good few nutters living in there.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Anyway building nice apartments isn't going to bring the tone of the place down is it!
High rise needs to go everywhere really. How come in well run countries in Germany and Switzerland and Austria etc they have 12 storey plus apartment blocks pretty much everywhere?

I'm sure they could do a nice job on them and they would look well. (They probably wont though)

Again, they start building up from the centre and work their way out.

12 stories is optimal height btw, and a lot of those 12 story apartment blocks do not have any parking. (Not everyone needs a car because the infra is so good). You try submitting planning permission for an apartment block with no parking and see how far it gets you...
I'm nearly sure there has to be parking on apartment builds (which again is stupid if you're building in the city centre)

Thelonious Monk

Well Darndale and Clarehall aren't Coolock. Also Clarehall rough? News to me!
Anyway building nice apartments isn't going to bring the tone of the place down is it!
High rise needs to go everywhere really. How come in well run countries in Germany and Switzerland and Austria etc they have 12 storey plus apartment blocks pretty much everywhere?

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Only small parts of it are bad really, for the most part it's fine. I would have thought the kind of people who could afford these apartments would be good for the area. I think it's great to build as much as possible on the site but how infrastructure doesn't come into the argument is just crazy.
Irish people don't want high rise for whatever reason so that wont be happening in our lifetimes. If you look at Manchester even they are currently creating a mini Manhattan in the centre, it's the only way forward, but Irish people prefer urban sprawl which creates lots of problems in itself.

Ah it's pretty bad now in fairness:
Adare
Kilbarron
Macroom
Darndale
Clarehall
etc
Rough areas.

I get what you're saying about high rise buildings.
We do need to start building them, but they need to be built in the right place.
IE city centre, within the Canals.

The oul lad lives in Coolock, I get the bus out to him often after work.
Despite Bus Lane and regulars services, you'd be lucky to get from Wexford St to Coolock in less than 60 mins in rush hour.

The infra just isn't there.
We need the infra first before building dwellings.

Note also, there is another 300 apartments going at Tesco Clare Hall.
No one would care if they just built the standard 80's 3 bed semi-D

But they're packing in as many as they possibly can.
I wouldn't buy a place like that to live in, Id' defo buy it if I could rent it out though and make a few bob off it. (Which is exactly whats happening)

[Deleted User]

Not one but TWO! High Rise developments! :eek:

Then I read the article. One five storey and one 6 storey. FFS! :mad:

“Coolock is one of the oldest villages in Dublin. It retains a village feel, but this development would be right smack in the middle of it,” she said.

Are we talking about the same Coolock that my aunt lived in for 40+ years, and where I lived for 3?

It must be a different one. If not then that is the biggest load of bollox Ive ever read.

Skylinehead

pablo128 wrote: »

Again, Coolock is nowhere near being in the middle of the city centre.

And 6 stories is nowhere near being high rise. There's far bigger buildings in Ballymun and I'm not even talking about the famous towers.

Thelonious Monk

Beta Ray Bill wrote: »

Also as a side note on this, The last thing Coolock needs is more people. They area is seriously troubled, major drug problem, a lot of crime too. Add more people into the mix is a recipe for disaster.

Only small parts of it are bad really, for the most part it's fine. I would have thought the kind of people who could afford these apartments would be good for the area. I think it's great to build as much as possible on the site but how infrastructure doesn't come into the argument is just crazy.
Irish people don't want high rise for whatever reason so that wont be happening in our lifetimes. If you look at Manchester even they are currently creating a mini Manhattan in the centre, it's the only way forward, but Irish people prefer urban sprawl which creates lots of problems in itself.

marieholmfan

sdanseo wrote: »

There is a housing crisis. Building masses of social homes is not the answer and here is a private developer trying to build.

The worst sort of question begging.

Beta Ray Bill

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I live near enough to the site and don't really care if they go up one way or another, but the Malahide road is already totally gridlocked and this will just make matters worse. Really they'd need to be improving public transport on that route to facilitate all the building that would happen there and up at Clongriffin and Clare Hall. I cycle to work so I wont be affected but this policy of building lots of dwellings without the required infrastructure is kind of ridiculous.

Key point there!

Malahide road is marketed by those in the property business as "One of the best Bus Corridors in the City"

Thing is though it's at full capacity at rush hour. It is not a pleasant journey into work.

Coolock is the wrong place for this development and the high rise development at the old Chivers site.

People whinging about "The Housing Crisis" need to realise that these are all going to be private dwellings, not council houses.
They will be sold to private individuals who will like rent a lot them back to the Council (IE Clongriffin MkII) at the Tax payers expense.

If the want to build high rise apartments they need to start in the centre of the city and work their way out, not the other way around.
The proposed development at the Chivers site will be the tallest building within a 5km radius. It's Ridiculous

Also as a side note on this, The last thing Coolock needs is more people. They area is seriously troubled, major drug problem, a lot of crime too. Add more people into the mix is a recipe for disaster.

Thelonious Monk

I live near enough to the site and don't really care if they go up one way or another, but the Malahide road is already totally gridlocked and this will just make matters worse. Really they'd need to be improving public transport on that route to facilitate all the building that would happen there and up at Clongriffin and Clare Hall. I cycle to work so I wont be affected but this policy of building lots of dwellings without the required infrastructure is kind of ridiculous.

Boggles

NoteAgent wrote: »

But if supply increases enough, prices will come down. It always comes back to demand vs supply. Always.

Can you point to one period in the past 40 years where supply has reduced the price of property?

In a "functioning" market, not when the economy collapsed.

Plumbthedepths

lola85 wrote: »

FF actually sold all our social housing stock to buy votes and then stopped building social houses.

This year there will be 11,000 social houses built, the most in 20 years and after the construction sector was obliterated under FF.

Educate yourself before telling someone they’re talking bull****.

More rubbish on your part.

lola85

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Yeah basically you are talking rubbish , despite the runaway budgets and the bringing the country to the brink of bankruptcy the FF governments built more social housing than the present FG governments of a similar time span. The figures are available online yet you claim there has been a housing crisis for the last 40 years, utter bullsh*t on your behalf.

FF actually sold all our social housing stock to buy votes and then stopped building social houses.

This year there will be 11,000 social houses built, the most in 20 years and after the construction sector was obliterated under FF.

Educate yourself before telling someone they’re talking bull****.

NoteAgent

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Many have accepted they will never own their own home, however if proper tenant rights were implemented that exist in other European countries ownership would not be as important an issue to people.

Tenant rights? They already have far too much rights as it is. Its impossible to evict a dodgy tenant these days. Its all stacked in favour of the tenant and against the landlord (another reason for lack of supply). All you need to do as a tenant is feature on the news with a sob story about not being able to pay rent and everyone is up in arms and the landlord has to foot the bill.

NoteAgent

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Building masses of social housing is the answer, relying on market forces to solve the problem is not working.

But we're not allowing the market to do its thing with all this regulation against developers (ie the suppliers). You need to incentivise builders to build. But there is no incentive at the moment.

Most government intervention proves itself to be a miserable failure time and time again.

NoteAgent

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually it does, the housing crisis is not just driven by lack of supply, affordability is as much a problem.

But if supply increases enough, prices will come down. It always comes back to demand vs supply. Always.

suicide_circus

the_syco wrote: »

Legislation is doing a sh|t job at protecting against troublesome tenants

this is a big issue and is the counter point to the even bigger issue of lack of security of lease tenure. you wont fix one without fixing the other.

Plumbthedepths

lola85 wrote: »

That’s it?

Yeah basically you are talking rubbish , despite the runaway budgets and the bringing the country to the brink of bankruptcy the FF governments built more social housing than the present FG governments of a similar time span. The figures are available online yet you claim there has been a housing crisis for the last 40 years, utter bullsh*t on your behalf.

lola85

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Utter nonsense, but you have form for this .

That’s it?

Plumbthedepths

lola85 wrote: »

The housing crisis goes back 40 years.

Not Eoghan Murphy era.

Utter nonsense, but you have form for this .

pablo128

Liberta Per Gli Ultra wrote: »

Coolock is in the middle of the city and the Irish government is giving away free houses apparently. That's the right-wing Fine Gael government. The power of the internet.

It's a cosmopolitan metropolis, don't you know.:cool:

Liberta Per Gli Ultra

pablo128 wrote: »

Again, Coolock is nowhere near being in the middle of the city centre.

Coolock is in the middle of the city and the Irish government is giving away free houses apparently. That's the right-wing Fine Gael government. The power of the internet.

pablo128

What is considered Dublin City Centre?
As I understand it, Dublin City Council defines the city centre as being the area bounded by the Royal Canal to the north, the Grand Canal to the south and the Phoenix Park to the west.

Again, Coolock is nowhere near being in the middle of the city centre.

sdanseo

MOH wrote: »

Not as ignorant as your complete lack of basic geography - try looking at a map.

It's 8km (edit: I correct myself, 5.8km) from the centre of a city whose metropolitan area is 50km wide which is good enough for me.

Not exactly in Kerry.

the_syco

sdanseo wrote: »

Force landlords to accept rent allowance. There is no reason not to do this, legislation can protect against both troublesome landlords or troublesome tenants.

Legislation is doing a sh|t job at protecting against troublesome tenants.

sdanseo wrote: »

Why should a landlord care where the revenue comes from provided the tenant is respectful and pays on time?

They don't. Except if HAP gets stopped, the LL is not told it'll be stopping; they find out it has stopped when is stops coming in. And they are paid in arrears by the councils.

sdanseo wrote: »

Rather than create ghettos, help existing communities grow with a better standard of living.

The Irish government prefers to give people what is essentially a free house next to someone who will pay €400,000 for their house.

lola85

Boggles wrote: »

There was 92,000 built in 2005, prices went up 12%.

The alarm bells were being rung for real in 2006.

A couple had rung them before that but were told to go kill themselves. Good old Bertie.

The housing crisis goes back 40 years.

Not Eoghan Murphy era.

Boggles

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Didn't we build a shed load of houses round 04 to 08 and the ass fell out of the prices.

There was 92,000 built in 2005, prices went up 12%.

The alarm bells were being rung for real in 2006.

A couple had rung them before that but were told to go kill themselves. Good old Bertie.

MOH

sdanseo wrote: »

These people complaining need a slap across the face.

Wow. Sure, why not beat people into submission!

...Describing 5 and 6 stories as high rise is as stupid as is it ignorant: we're talking about the middle of a capital city.

Not as ignorant as your complete lack of basic geography - try looking at a map.

Jesus (if he ever existed) wept.

At least we agree on one thing.

[Deleted User]

Didn't we build a shed load of houses round 04 to 08 and the ass fell out of the prices.

Edit: a great time to be renting by the way, my rent never changed for years and years.:D

Boggles

lola85 wrote: »

Think I read house prices down last month?

Nothing to do with Supply. We are not building next to near enough.

More than likely consumer sentiment and the looming dreaded Brexit.