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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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nannerby

Stander has come in for a lot of stick over the past while but I thought he was our best player at the world cup.

baas baa

bilston wrote: »

You might be right about McCloskey, but my point is, give him a run in the side. He hasn't really had a shot. Where do we tour next June? In my head I'm thinking Argentina. Wherever it is give someone like McCloskey three tests, give Ruddock a run of tests, maybe Tadgh Beirne, but that is the time to do it.

Sure we can stick with the tried and trusted while everyone else is experimenting and we might win a title and get a few big scalps, but come 2023 we will be in the same position we are now.

Joe tried his best to develop a squad, but again we all knew our starting XV weeks ago, bar maybe one centre position. If you look at England and NZ and you'd probably have some doubt about some positions on both teams week to week.

We have a deeper squad than we used to, but we've still some way to go.

I wouldn't be opposed to looking at McCloskey but I think we need to get past this giving lads a run mentality, I'd prefer we had a clear vision on how we want to play, identify the players that best suit that style and back them. Selecting who we think are our best 15 players and fitting a gameplan around them hasn't worked. We've tried to be more expansive in recent years but players like Stander, Earls, Henshaw and Kearney simply lack the skills necessary for that to work.

Clegg

nannerby wrote: »

Stander has come in for a lot of stick over the past while but I thought he was our best player at the world cup.

Himself, Ringrose and Ryan were our three best this tournament. Though on balance I'd say Stander shades the other two. He had the toughest job of any Ireland player imo. He's the only good carrier in that backrow and the opposition knew it. They'd line him up and hit him hard again and again. Put he kept getting up and carrying all the same.

We need bigger men in the backrow to help Stander. VdF is the only decent 7 around the provinces right now so he keeps his place despite being relatively small. That leaves PoM and tbh I don't think anyone could complain if he were dropped.

baas baa

We're too obsessed with workrate in this country, a player can be awarded man of the match for carrying the ball 20 times for a net gain of 10 metres. Stander is always among our most visible players but I'd question the effectiveness of his work.

PTH2009

For the incoming WC cycle we need to make sure we play well enough to be in Pot 1 or Pot 2 for the WC grp draw

James Lowe will be coming in soon so he might give us a small boost

Eoin

bilston wrote: »

It will be interesting to see who takes over as Captain.

O'Mahony will probably be favourite, but personally I'd have Ruddock in the side at the minute. Sexton has enough to worry about without being skipper. It might well be Ryan, unless there is a surprise option.

Of course if Ruddock plays he could be an option, but given he would always be looking over his shoulder it would be a risky call.

O'Mahony is 30. Maybe now with a new coach and after today's... unpleasantness, the captaincy should go to one of the new generation of players coming though. Unless they want to change captaincy again before 2023. And that's without even considering whether or not POM should even be considered an automatic starter anymore.

Could well be a surprise option too - I've said it a load of times, but the best captain is not always that obvious to everyone outside of the squad.

The Rape of Lucretia

POM is too likely not to be a starter. Ryan must surely take on the mantle now.

RugbyLover123

Stander’s role is to ball carry. Easiest job in rugby. That’s why he gets so many motm awards, because he is usually playing in a pack going forward. Even if he’s not, as long as he catches the ball and doesn’t get put on his back he is seemed to have a good game, as he’s noticeable. I hate to say it, but ultimately the saffas were right about him, that at that top level he is too small to play that game. He’s not the size of billy V and hasn’t got the ball playing ability of Read or Falateu.

The way Schmidt wanted to play, we needed 2 big specimens at 6 & 8. And in POM and Stander we did not have that.

ClanofLams

Captain should be someone nailed on to start both now and ‘23. James Ryan is the only option.

Clegg

PTH2009 wrote: »

For the incoming WC cycle we need to make sure we play well enough to be in Pot 1 or Pot 2 for the WC grp draw

James Lowe will be coming in soon so he might give us a small boost

Lowe and Larmour have stuck up a good onfield understanding of each others games. They link up very well with each other for Leinster. If Larmour can wrest the 15 jersey from Kearney at Leinster I'd like to see them.getting a few run outs in green too.

This is on the assumption Lowe declares for Ireland of course.

awec

Ryan will captain Ireland, but I’d be surprised if it happens this soon.

PTH2009

Clegg wrote: »

Lowe and Larmour have stuck up a good onfield understanding of each others games. They link up very well with each other for Leinster. If Larmour can wrest the 15 jersey from Kearney at Leinster I'd like to see them.getting a few run outs in green too.

This is on the assumption Lowe declares for Ireland of course.

Think he said he declared already but could be wrong

ClanofLams

awec wrote: »

Ryan will captain Ireland, but I’d be surprised if it happens this soon.

You might be right but I don’t even see other options? POM isn’t or shouldn’t be a guaranteed starter. No point giving it to a 34 year old Sexton. Conor Murray isn’t playing well enough and shouldn’t be guaranteed his spot either. I think Henderson Ryan is favourite to be the long term second row partnership but Ryan’s spot is much more secure.

Danthemanhere

ClanofLams wrote: »

You might be right but I don’t even see other options? POM isn’t or shouldn’t be a guaranteed starter. No point giving it to a 34 year old Sexton. Conor Murray isn’t playing well enough and shouldn’t be guaranteed his spot either. I think Henderson Ryan is favourite to be the long term second row partnership but Ryan’s spot is much more secure.

I don't think he's got leadership qualities yet. He'll learn them but he'll have to wait a few years.

ClanofLams

Danthemanhere wrote: »

I don't think he's got leadership qualities yet. He'll learn them but he'll have to wait a few years.

I’d say he has more than most on the team. Who are the other contenders?

Danthemanhere

ClanofLams wrote: »

I’d say he has more than most on the team. Who are the other contenders?

Henderson. Ulster captain no? Ryan is still only 23.

FrancieBrady

When do we play first under Farrell?

ClanofLams

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Henderson. Ulster captain no? Ryan is still only 23.

Since the start of this season yeah. Henderson is the only other likely contender but I don’t think his position in the team is as solid as Ryan’s. As for his age, I don’t see it as a major barrier, he has plenty of experience, much more so than O’Driscoll when he became captain.

Danthemanhere

ClanofLams wrote: »

Since the start of this season yeah. Henderson is the only other likely contender but I don’t think his position in the team is as solid as Ryan’s.

Yes but we can't ignore that Ryan is 23 and isn't that vocal as yet. When some of the senior members retire then he'll press through. We'll likely have a captain for the next 2 seasons and then change again. No harm in that.

ClanofLams

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Yes but we can't ignore that Ryan is 23 and isn't that vocal as yet. When some of the senior members retire then he'll press through. We'll likely have a captain for the next 2 seasons and then change again. No harm in that.

He has loads of experience. Grand slam, European Cup, etc, and he seems plenty vocal to me. Don’t really see the relevance of his age, if he is mature enough and capable which he certainly appears to be.

If Farrell sees Henderson as a certainty for first XV he might get it but I think that’s a pretty big if.

ClanofLams

Also captaincy is definitely something that takes a bit of adjusting to and no matter how good a natural leader you are, the more experience you get at it, the better you get in terms of talking to ref, media etc

So it should be someone who is almost certainly still going to be on the XV in ‘23. James Ryan only one who currently meets that criteria.

Danthemanhere

ClanofLams wrote: »

He has loads of experience. Grand slam, European Cup, etc, and he seems plenty vocal to me. Don’t really see the relevance of his age, if he is mature enough and capable which he certainly appears to be.

If Farrell sees Henderson as a certainty for first XV he might get it but I think that’s a pretty big if.

He'll be captain but not yet. Too many experienced players still there and will be for another couple of years.

salmocab

ClanofLams wrote: »

Also captaincy is definitely something that takes a bit of adjusting to and no matter how good a natural leader you are, the more experience you get at it, the better you get in terms of talking to ref, media etc

So it should be someone who is almost certainly still going to be on the XV in ‘23. James Ryan only one who currently meets that criteria.

He seems to do a bit of talking in huddles and such, he could quite easily be playing for two full WC cycles. I’d give it to him if he’s a leader in the squad regardless of age.

ClanofLams

Danthemanhere wrote: »

He'll be captain but not yet. Too many experienced players still there and will be for another couple of years.

Id far rather have an experienced captain leading Ireland at the next World Cup and that’s worth any mistakes Ryan might make over the first year or two. Waste of time giving it to someone for two seasons and then Ryan. Give it to him now, let him grow into it over the next four years.

Danthemanhere

ClanofLams wrote: »

Id far rather have an experienced captain leading Ireland at the next World Cup and that’s worth any mistakes Ryan might make over the first year or two. Waste of time giving it to someone for two seasons and then Ryan. Give it to him now, let him grow into it over the next four years.

Could be too much to put on young shoulders. He'll have a hard enough job with the line out. Give him time I say.

AbusesToilets

Who cares who the captain is. It has little material impact beyond the supposed right to talk to the ref. I'd rather they focus on picking players who can play rugby. Attack through a gap, draw and give, run a support line. You don't need to be "The Leader" to have leadership.

PTH2009

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When do we play first under Farrell?

1st Feb 2020 in the 6 Nations at home to Scotland

Squad and training camp in January 2020 id say

Burkie1203

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Could be too much to put on young shoulders. He'll have a hard enough job with the line out. Give him time I say.

Sam Warburton is proof that this idea is total bullsh1t

Danthemanhere

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Sam Warburton is proof that this idea is total bullsh1t

No one ever said there hasn't been young captains. It's just a case of it being beneficial or not. There's no rush, give him a few years, maybe even captain Leinster first.

ClanofLams

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Who cares who the captain is. It has little material impact beyond the supposed right to talk to the ref. I'd rather they focus on picking players who can play rugby. Attack through a gap, draw and give, run a support line. You don't need to be "The Leader" to have leadership.

It’s probably over hyped by media but don’t think it’s accurate to say it has little material impact either. It’s an important role.