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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Quin_Dub

This is the eleventh incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread,

Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
Insults directed at popular figures are not acceptable in this forum
Please do not post memes, videos or comedy links here
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thecretinhop

SNIP. No more of this please.

Imreoir2

thecretinhop wrote: »

Snipped post.

Riviting contribution. You know what, you have convinced me. I retract my previous statement and will defer to your wisdom on this matter in future. :rolleyes:

RobMc59

Imreoir2 wrote: »

What part of the last few weeks suggest that Ireland is anything less than a full and equal partner in the EU? Where does this cynical view come from? In the past a small country like Ireland would not even have been invited to participate in discussions between the major powers of Europe. Back in the 19th century or early twentieth century, Germany, France and the UK would have made a decision between them and we would have been informed of the outcome, that is if they did not go to war over their conflicting interests.

Under the EU that is not how things are done, our interests as a small nation have been front and centre, our diplomats have had a crucial role in deciding what happens. Both the UK and the other European states have heard our concerns and have acomodated them. Why are you so against this?

Ireland as a nation have acted honourably and the Taoisearch have acted with dignity.Which is more than can be said for johnson and co who have acted like a nest of vipers.

devnull

Letter from Boris to MP's has been published

skynews-letter-boris-johnson_4810142.jpg?bypass-service-worker&20191019194721

The bit about whether the EU will make a decision quickly is key I'd say.

Imreoir2

RobMc59 wrote: »

Ireland as a nation have acted honourably and the Taoisearch have acted with dignity.Which is more than can be said for johnson and co who have acted like a nest of vipers.

His style may be grating and I can understand why many people in the UK would take a dim view of Johnson, and May before him, but as far as our interests are concerned both May and Johnson as PM have agreed a withdrawl agreement that would respect the GFA. Diplomatically we can't ask for more from the UK, their decision to leave the EU is a matter for them, once they abide by their commitments to peace on this island then we can have no complaints.

That said, I would hate to have something like this happen in Ireland. The thought of either main party inflicting the likes of this on the country because of their own internal bickering would be sickening.

Imreoir2

devnull wrote: »

Letter from Boris to MP's has been published

The bit about whether the EU will make a decision quickly is key I'd say.

Parliaments request for an extension? Has he written the letter to the EU requesting an extension or not? He has another few hours to do so, but his letter to MPs seems to suggest that a request has already been made?

Enzokk

Here is the moment Joanna Cherry stood up to speak and the Tories evacuated their seats.

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1185563964090081280?s=20

This is not the first time this has happened and will not be the last. Rees-Mogg also stood up to leave while points of order was being made on his point of order, instead of a business motion which usually is made, this time by Kirsty Blackman so I think a message is being sent to the SNP.

As for Johnson's deal, I cannot believe more wasn't made of the fact that no Economic Impact Assessment was done on his deal. I know why, it would show it is only slightly better than no-deal so the government will not do one and they know if they do they will give MPs enough to reject the deal whereas now they can vote for it and claim ignorance.

This is typical of the man Johnson is, a liar and cheat. He should not be trusted to do anything and the fact he is trying to tell people there will not be an extension when all news from the EU has been that one will be provided should be more than enough evidence for MPs to just politely nod when he talks but to not trust him when he says anything.

If he told me the sun was shining I would put my head out of the window to check.

devnull

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Parliaments request for an extension? Has he written the letter to the EU requesting an extension or not?

Tusk says he hasn't yet....

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1185628435554734080?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1185628435554734080&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fjohnson-tells-mps-there-is-a-burning-desire-to-get-brexit-done-11839261

Enzokk

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Parliaments request for an extension? Has he written the letter to the EU requesting an extension or not? He has another few hours to do so, but his letter to MPs seems to suggest that a request has already been made?

He has a problem though, the letter has already been written for him I believe and it is in the name of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Good luck trying to spin that as a parliament letter when he has to sign it.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1171096680525160448?s=20

As for his letter, very Trumpian in the way he describes his deal. Don't trust someone when they tell you how smart they are or how great a deal they are giving you.

GM228

Enzokk wrote: »

He has a problem though, the letter has already been written for him I believe and it is in the name of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Good luck trying to spin that as a parliament letter when he has to sign it.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1171096680525160448?s=20

As for his letter, very Trumpian in the way he describes his deal. Don't trust someone when they tell you how smart they are or how great a deal they are giving you.

He must write the letter as per the Schedule of the Act:-

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/26/schedule

It must read:-

Dear Mr President,

The UK Parliament has passed the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019. Its provisions now require Her Majesty's Government to seek an extension of the period provided under Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union, including as applied by Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty, currently due to expire at 11.00pm GMT on 31 October 2019, until 11.00pm GMT on 31 January 2020.

I am writing therefore to inform the European Council that the United Kingdom is seeking a further extension to the period provided under Article 50(3) of the Treaty on European Union, including as applied by Article 106a of the Euratom Treaty. The United Kingdom proposes that this period should end at 11.00pm GMT on 31 January 2020. If the parties are able to ratify before this date, the Government proposes that the period should be terminated early.

Yours sincerely,

Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland

Anything else is not in compliance with the Act and unlawful.

Purgative

Enzokk wrote: »

As for his letter, very Trumpian in the way he describes his deal. Don't trust someone when they tell you how smart they are or how great a deal they are giving you.

The stupid thing is Bozo is saying "Lets get Brexit done" - even my mother (visiting) is saying "Oh I thought it would all be finished".

Very few seem to realise that this finishes nothing, it just starts a long painful round of incompetent negotiations for an FTA, and then after a lot of grief ...

Enzokk

Somewhere there is a ditch that will soon have Johnson in it, if he was a man of his word that is,

https://twitter.com/antoguerrera/status/1185635559533957123?s=20

Boris is sending the letter, Tusk says

#BREXIT: UK'S JOHNSON CONFIRMED TO EU'S TUSK THAT EXTENSION LETTER WOULD BE SENT TODAY - EU OFFICIAL

Water John

The man who said repeatedly, he wouldn't. He's pathetic and what word has he?

PropJoe10

Water John wrote: »

The man who said repeatedly, he wouldn't. He's pathetic and what word has he?

I think he'll probably say that he'll request an extension but he won't negotiate for one - slightly different wording, but it'll probably what he'll say. He'll be hoping that the EU places some conditions on an extension, which he'll then refuse and then No Deal will be back on.

BarryD2

Enzokk wrote: »

As for his letter, very Trumpian in the way he describes his deal. Don't trust someone when they tell you how smart they are or how great a deal they are giving you.

He seems to subscribe to the theory that if you keep saying something, that it eventually becomes true.

He's caught in the headlights now is Boris, if that letter doesn't go by 11pm, the lawyers will be lining up.

Imreoir2

PropJoe10 wrote: »

I think he'll probably say that he'll request an extension but he won't negotiate for one - slightly different wording, but it'll probably what he'll say. He'll be hoping that the EU places some conditions on an extension, which he'll then refuse and then No Deal will be back on.

I'm sure parliament will have the opportunity to instruct the government to accept the extension regardless of whatever conditions are attached.

Water John

So if his vote doesn't go through on Monday, he'll surely go for a simple vote for a GE with LB and SNP and Lib Dems supporting it.

Shelga

What's the point of his letter to parliament? Seems like more meaningless posturing.

When will we know what the EU has decided with regard to an extension? It's not easy to co-ordinate a unified response from 27 countries, I imagine- especially now the summit is over.

A Dub in Glasgo

Shelga wrote: »

What's the point of his letter to parliament? Seems like more meaningless posturing.

He is trying to scare them into voting for his 'cracking' deal otherwise it might be no deal (as the EU might refuse or take an age)

Water John

It looked highly likely that it would have been needed with the tight deadline so I suspect some chat may have been had on it.
To hint to the EU, to take their time getting back to him on it. Really juvenile.

fr336

Now Tusk has said Boris has told him he will be seeking extension, the EU should give them a really long extension - anything from 6 months to a year. This would finish Boris and possibly the Tories too. The winners would be the Brexit party and other opposition parties as a result of the fragmenting of Tory vote.

Itssoeasy

Shelga wrote: »

What's the point of his letter to parliament? Seems like more meaningless posturing.

When will we know what the EU has decided with regard to an extension? It's not easy to co-ordinate a unified response from 27 countries, I imagine- especially now the summit is over.

Well given it's the weekend you'd have to assume it'll be Monday at the earliest before anything happens. That letter that's in the benn act actually isn't as restrictive as I thought it was. It does mention January 2020, but it also gives the PM a way of shortening that extension if the House of Commons can pass it before then.

dePeatrick

fr336 wrote: »

Now Tusk has said Boris has told him he will be seeking extension, the EU should give them a really long extension - anything from 6 months to a year. This would finish Boris and possibly the Tories too. The winners would be the Brexit party and other opposition parties as a result of the fragmenting of Tory vote.

What advantage would it be letting the Brexit party gain power?

Joe_ Public

Shelga wrote: »

What's the point of his letter to parliament? Seems like more meaningless posturing.

When will we know what the EU has decided with regard to an extension? It's not easy to co-ordinate a unified response from 27 countries, I imagine- especially now the summit is over.

Will take a few days. Piece below sums it up fairly well i think. Seems macron was being a bit cheeky with his comments about refusing an extension, was likely just trying to help his new buddy get his deal over the line. Didnt work. Earliest EU parliament could ratify any deal is late november so extension needs to take that into account at very least.

Boris Johnson has confirmed he will seek Brexit delay, says Brussels

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/19/eu-will-grant-brexit-extension-if-johnson-sends-letter-says-brussels?

fr336

dePeatrick wrote: »

What advantage would it be letting the Brexit party gain power?

They will never gain power. Only the Tories or Labour can gain power, with possible assistance from smaller parties. The power of Brexit has been overstated in parlimentary seat terms - even in Labour seats which voted leave, only one had Labour voters being more leave than remain. Labour will hold onto their northern seats, and the Tories will lose London among many other places.

Water John

Just don't comprehend how any MP whose values from from a Lb background could consider voting for this Deal. Far worse for workers etc than May's Deal.

gimli2112

it's hard to imagine a worst PM but then I just saw Teresa May on Sky news, then I remembered David. You really couldn't make up an unholy trinty as bad.
The three of them will have their place in history, if there is one.

Itssoeasy

Water John wrote: »

Just don't comprehend how any MP whose values from from a Lb background could consider voting for this Deal. Far worse for workers etc than May's Deal.

Logic has long since left this whole debate on brexit. Some of the rational used by the ordinary British voter on video or on radio has been mind numbing to listen to. It's not living in the real world. Invoking the WW2 spirit and other things like that have made some people so blinded by this utopian version of brexit(which isn't possible) and now the whole country seems completely dug in on their view. Even if brexit is somehow achieved the UK will take awhile to recover from it.

Letwin_Larry

I genuinely really dont understand what all the fuss is about.
So what, Boris will miss his Oct 31st "deadline", an EU extension will be granted, and he will either get his deal through in 6 weeks, 6 months, etc.

But failing either being granted an extension (highly unlikely imo), or Boris being unable to get his deal passed (unlikely but possible),
then we will have a GE, which is what Boris wants anyhow.

Correct me if i am wrong? Explain.

Strazdas

Shelga wrote: »

What's the point of his letter to parliament? Seems like more meaningless posturing.

When will we know what the EU has decided with regard to an extension? It's not easy to co-ordinate a unified response from 27 countries, I imagine- especially now the summit is over.

There's speculation that the EU could leave it as late as October 31 to reveal their decision - they might not want to commit to anything too soon