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Why not eggs?

JJayoo

Genuine question here.

Let's say you owned a few chickens and they had a completely free range life. They could roam around unrestricted during the day time, were wel looked after.

What would be the issue with eating the eggs from these chickens?

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uck51js9zml2yt

JJayoo wrote: »

Genuine question here.

Let's say you owned a few chickens and they had a completely free range life. They could roam around unrestricted during the day time, were wel looked after.

What would be the issue with eating the eggs from these chickens?

They killed innocent insects in the making of those eggs..:)

Fritzbox

JJayoo wrote: »

Genuine question here.

Let's say you owned a few chickens and they had a completely free range life. They could roam around unrestricted during the day time, were wel looked after.

What would be the issue with eating the eggs from these chickens?

If you were satisfied with adopting a vegan diet, but didn't want to forego eggs - there's nothing to stop you from eating eggs - just forego the meat fish and honey as per usual.
It wouldn't be considered a real vegan diet - but don't let that effect your conscience. Just cal it the "JJayoo diet".

JJayoo

No I have no interest in becoming vegan, I am curious about the rational behind it.

You mentioned honey, if a vegan had there own honey bees, and they only took a small amount from the bees, why wouldn't they eat it?

Or if you had a cow and you milked it by hand why wouldn't a vegan be ok with drinking it?

Purgative

JJayoo wrote: »

No I have no interest in becoming vegan, I am curious about the rational behind it.

You mentioned honey, if a vegan had there own honey bees, and they only took a small amount from the bees, why wouldn't they eat it?

Or if you had a cow and you milked it by hand why wouldn't a vegan be ok with drinking it?

Ah shure.

Isn't that the same as saying to all the lads on the cycling forum - Can ya not afford a car lads?

Or the Christianity forum - There's obviously no magic old guy up in the sky.

Dems da rules

L1011

I know someone who eats an otherwise entirely vegan diet (and has an otherwise vegan lifestyle, clothes/toiletries and so on) but will eat the eggs from her rescue chickens - so there is one person doing it. Wouldn't assume that to mean others are going to make the same decision

Deagol

Have an aunt who is vegan, but she eats eggs. When I queried this seemingly contradictory situation she pointed out that they are essentially a chicken's period....

Nobbies

JJayoo wrote: »

Genuine question here.

Let's say you owned a few chickens and they had a completely free range life. They could roam around unrestricted during the day time, were wel looked after.

What would be the issue with eating the eggs from these chickens?

Ate away. sure them chickens would only be delighted to see you enjoying their produce.

gozunda

Deagol wrote: »

Have an aunt who is vegan, but she eats eggs. When I queried this seemingly contradictory situation she pointed out that they are essentially a chicken's period....

In the same way potatoes are infact a plants babies. Disgusting I know

And afaik someone who eats eggs as part of a plant based diet is a vegetarian ...

Edit. But seriously hens do not menstruate and their eggs are not “chicken periods” as is sometimes asserted

Access to outdoors, greenery and a mixed grain feed with crushed shells will ensure a good diet with plenty of calcium and all the other nutrients required for a laying hen. This will keep the most even the demanding hen happy. Dont feed layers pellets - too much like fast food and not necessarily the best diet for good quality eggs.

uck51js9zml2yt

gozunda wrote: »

In the same way the way potatoes are infact a plants babies. Disgusting I know
..

No one mentions those poor baby carrots getting ripped,...I say...ripped ..,from their nice home in the ground. It's a travesty

auspicious

Hens lay eggs as part of their reproductive cycle.
A natural hen would lay between 15 to 20 usually in spring. Through selective breeding today's hens lay anywhere from 200 to 300 all year around. This has a massive toll on their bodies.
Firstly when eggs are removed the brooding instinct kicks in and this forces the body to produce quicker.
Secondly the egg shell is calcium. This is why alot of hens have weak broken bones or develop osteoporosis i.e. the calcium is leeched ftom the individual's bones, especially if given cheap feed.
Essentially just like cows producing milk only for their young , a hen's reproductive system is being exploited.

Taking the eggs from rescues means you are still benefiting from the initial harm, the reason why they were bred in the first place. It's like fruits of the poisionous tree; if the source is tainted then the outcome is tainted.

uck51js9zml2yt

auspicious wrote: »

Hens lay eggs as part of their reproductive cycle.
A natural hen would lay between 15 to 20 usually in spring. Through selective breeding today's hens lay anywhere from 200 to 300 all year around. This has a massive toll on their bodies.
Firstly when eggs are removed the brooding instinct kicks in and this forces the body to produce quicker.
Secondly the egg shell is calcium. This is why alot of hens have weak broken bones or develop osteoporosis i.e. the calcium is leeched ftom the individual's bones, especially if given cheap feed.
Essentially just like cows producing milk only for their young , a hen's reproductive system is being exploited.

Taking the eggs from rescues means you are still benefiting from the initial harm, the reason why they were bred in the first place. It's like fruits of the poisionous tree; if the source is tainted then the outcome is tainted.

I'll remember this when I let my hens out in the morning and collect their eggs

But I definitely will still pulling baby carrots from their homes!

JJayoo

What is a natural hen?

gozunda

JJayoo wrote: »

What is a natural hen?

Reminds me of the story of little Jimmy who during class asks the old nun what's a 'Hindu'

The nun looks at the young boy and replies 'dont be daft Jimmy - everyone knows what hens do - they lay eggs' ...

I'll get my coat ...

davidjtaylor

Infertile, abandoned eggs are often eaten by the flock - a useful source of protein for the birds. Leave 'em to it.

Slaphead07

there are no rules. You eat whatever you're comfortable eating, it's between you and your conscience.

_Brian

Slaphead07 wrote: »

there are no rules. You eat whatever you're comfortable eating, it's between you and your conscience.

And neither a need to force it on others nor mock them for their choice, because you can’t understand a persons choice doesn’t mean it’s wrong.

loveisdivine

We feed the eggs our rescues lay back to them. They created those eggs, they don't belong to us. It cost them a physical toll to produce those eggs, so by eating them they get back some of those nutrients they lost.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Yeah I also know someone who's an otherwise strict vegan but keeps birds for eggs. Some chickens, ducks, and guinea fowl. Keeps a couple of pigs too but just as pets/garden digger uppers.

Nice idea but not everyone has the time, space and money as he acknowledges himself.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

loveisdivine wrote: »

We feed the eggs our rescues lay back to them. They created those eggs, they don't belong to us. It cost them a physical toll to produce those eggs, so by eating them they get back some of those nutrients they lost.

What sort of logic is that?

If that's the case, nothing belongs to you and therefore you shouldn't be eating anything at all.... utter nonsense :rolleyes:

loveisdivine

Adonis Clean Sociopath wrote: »

What sort of logic is that?

If that's the case, nothing belongs to you and therefore you shouldn't be eating anything at all.... utter nonsense :rolleyes:

Oh come off it. There's clearly a difference between exploiting the reproductive system of a living being and exploiting the growing ability of vegetables.

I have to eat food to live, so I choose food that involves the least exploitation.

irish_goat

Surely if you replace the eggs with chicken feed then the chicken's aren't losing out on anything?

_Brian

irish_goat wrote: »

Surely if you replace the eggs with chicken feed then the chicken's aren't losing out on anything?

Really if the chickens are roaming in a sufficiently natural manner they would need neither.

Chickens didn’t really develop to eat lots of eggs, I’d consider that a corruption of their food chain. We saw with bse the horrid road that leads us down.

If people don’t want to eat the eggs from their chicken that’s their business, their choice should be respected. As should everyone’s choices.

gozunda

loveisdivine wrote: »

We feed the eggs our rescues lay back to them. They created those eggs, they don't belong to us. It cost them a physical toll to produce those eggs, so by eating them they get back some of those nutrients they lost.

It is not recommended to feed chickens their own or other chickens eggs. Chickens are prone to a number of chicken specific conditions which can be easily passed from hen to hen especially where chickens are allowed to eat eggs. There appears to be some fairly daft notions about chickens and nutrition doing the rounds tbh. If hens are fed adequately and allowed to root and scratch then the nutrients lost during egg laying are easily replaced.

Btw lots of things 'don't belong to us'. The crops in the field 'don't belong to us' and yet we eat them. The apples on a tree 'don't belong' to us and yet we still harvest them. That argument simply doesn't follow. And yes plants are also living organisms with reproductive systems. And we exploit them ...

_Brian

gozunda wrote: »

It is not recommended to feed chickens their own or other chickens eggs. Chickens are prone to a number of chicken specific conditions which can be easily passed from hen to hen especially where chickens are allowed to eat eggs. There appears to be some fairly daft notions about chickens and nutrition doing the rounds tbh. If hens are fed adequately and allowed to root and scratch then the nutrients lost during egg laying are easily replaced.

Btw lots of things 'don't belong to us'. The crops in the field 'done belong to us' and yet we eat them. The apples on a tree 'don't belong' to us and yet we still harvest them. That argument simply doesn't follow. And yes plants are also living organisms with reproductive systems. And we exploit them ...

Even as a farmer I can see the whole we farm crops so that’s the same as farming animals as a thread bare argument.

To me there’s a difference in a living thing, and something that’s alive.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m 100% confident in my farming and eating habits.

But farming a chicken is a far cry from farming an apple tree. There more merit in the pesticide, vermin control argument but I’ve no interest in perusing that either.

Everyone’s choice is right so long as they are free to male it.

gozunda

_Brian wrote: »

Even as a farmer I can see the whole we farm crops so that’s the same as farming animals as a thread bare argument. To me there’s a difference in a living thing, and something that’s alive. Don’t get me wrong, I’m 100% confident in my farming and eating habits. But farming a chicken is a far cry from farming an apple tree. There more merit in the pesticide, vermin control argument but I’ve no interest in perusing that either. Everyone’s choice is right so long as they are free to male it.

Accepted - however that's not comparing the farming of plants and animals btw - living organisms, reproduction etc are facts of biology. And yes on the issue of eggs or apples or whatever produce - none can be said to 'belong to us'. With regards what anyone chooses to eat or not - as you detailed it's down to to personal choice and being free to make those choices.

loveisdivine

gozunda wrote: »

It is not recommended to feed chickens their own or other chickens eggs. Chickens are prone to a number of chicken specific conditions which can be easily passed from hen to hen especially where chickens are allowed to eat eggs. There appears to be some fairly daft notions about chickens and nutrition doing the rounds tbh. If hens are fed adequately and allowed to root and scratch then the nutrients lost during egg laying are easily replaced.

Btw lots of things 'don't belong to us'. The crops in the field 'don't belong to us' and yet we eat them. The apples on a tree 'don't belong' to us and yet we still harvest them. That argument simply doesn't follow. And yes plants are also living organisms with reproductive systems. And we exploit them ...

Well I can see a difference between taking something from a living, breathing, sentient creature and picking an apple off a tree. If you can't see that difference then that's your issue.

But we both know that you can see the difference, you're just being your usual argumentative self. You spend more time on this forum than any of us vegans or veggies do. Your interest in debating us is borderline obsession to be honest.

Edit to add - Do you have a source for the eggs being dangerous to feed back? Whenever I've googled everything I've read has said its fine once they are cooked and a good source of protein for them. But if that's not the case I'd like to know for sure as their welfare is the priority for me.

If it wasn't safe to feed them back, I would offer them for free to neighbours to encourage them to buy less commercial eggs.

davidjtaylor

loveisdivine wrote: »

If it wasn't safe to feed them back, I would offer them for free to neighbours to encourage them to buy less commercial eggs.

Good idea. Also, most birds are not going to lay that many (unless they've been human-bred to throw out as many as possible) and it's seasonal, so it's not going to harm them to eat the odd few.

If you can get the shells back from neighbours, that's possibly the most useful bit for the birds.

gozunda

loveisdivine wrote: »

Well I can see a difference between taking something from a living, breathing, sentient creature and picking an apple off a tree. If you can't see that difference then that's your issue.But we both know that you can see the difference, you're just being your usual argumentative self. You spend more time on this forum than any of us vegans or veggies do. Your interest in debating us is borderline obsession to be honest.

It's not an 'issue' and in that I'm not referring to anyones belief. That has been clearly detailed. But yes If anyone cannot differentiate between belief and basic biology - I really cant help that.

I will say this again - there is absolutely no need for any of the crass personalisations which get thrown at others in this forum. I believe the common direction is to attack the post and NOT the poster.

Continue to disparage others posters contributions to the discussion if you want - but note that I and others are simlly replying to those comments which concern agriculture and animals which are at best misinformation eg or the daft implication that all chickens are not fed adequately and abused etc or as in the other thread that only AI is used for reproduction in cattle. Again there is no need to get personal and nasty because others simply point the facts out.

loveisdivine wrote:

Edit to add - Do you have a source for the eggs being dangerous to feed back? Whenever I've googled everything I've read has said its fine once they are cooked and a good source of protein for them. But if that's not the case I'd like to know for sure as their welfare is the priority for me. If it wasn't safe to feed them back, I would offer them for free to neighbours to encourage them to buy less commercial eggs.

To the fair question regarding not feeding chicken their own eggs - that advice relates to specific poulrty disease risk. A number of poulty specific diseases are noted including Newcastle disease, Lymphoid Leukosis and Infectious Bronchitis. Of note the spread of Newcastle disease is currently a notifiable disease in poulty flocks and is on alert in Ireland.

The Transmission: The Newcastle virus can be transmitted short distances by the airborne route or introduced on contaminated shoes, caretakers, feed deliverers, visitors, tires, dirty equipment, feed sacks, crates, and wild birds. Newcastle virus can be passed in the egg

With birds being brought in from elsewhere, bio security remains a very relevant issue. Feeding eggs to chickens constitutes an unnecessary poulty disease risk.

https://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/ps044

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/animalhealthwelfare/diseasecontrol/newcastledisease/

Imo Poulty hobby sites are not a good source of such information.

loveisdivine

Thank you for the info on eggs.

I'm genuinely curious why you are so interested in vegans/veggies. Don't take this the wrong way (I'm not trying to attack the poster) but it honestly feels like you've made it your personal mission to post opposing views on every thread.

Honestly why do you care so much? You're a farmer right? So why come out of your way to constantly try and debate everyone on here? You don't see us going into every thread on the farming forum and pointing out why we think its wrong, sure we would be banned pretty quick if we did.

It's great that people can come here and ask questions but we don't need a pro farming representative in every thread. That's not what this forum is for. Debate is great but it's getting so tiresome. Maybe you could take a holiday and give us all a break for a week or 2.

gozunda

loveisdivine wrote: »

Thank you for the info on eggs. I'm genuinely curious why you are so interested in vegans/veggies. Don't take this the wrong way (I'm not trying to attack the poster) but it honestly feels like you've made it your personal mission to post opposing views on every thread. Honestly why do you care so much? You're a farmer right? So why come out of your way to constantly try and debate everyone on here? You don't see us going into every thread on the farming forum and pointing out why we think its wrong, sure we would be banned pretty quick if we did. It's great that people can come here and ask questions but we don't need a pro farming representative in every thread. That's not what this forum is for. Debate is great but it's getting so tiresome. Maybe you could take a holiday and give us all a break for a week or 2.

No bother. I'm not specifically interested in veggies unless you mean the ones growing in the ground.

First of all it's a discussion. This thread was posted by a non vegan - just in case you didnt realise that. Should we ban that poster from doing so yes?

So no - It's not about me or any other poster. And yes there's plenty of non farmers who post in the main farming forum and no they do not get banned unless as per the Boards charter they are being complete dicks afaik.

The comments to which I and others reply as far as I can see are generally those relating to agriculture. You might also notice that there's a whole bunch of different posters who've posted here - its an open forum - the same as practically every other forum on boards. Not sure why you're picking on me tbh.

By all means you can put anyone you disagree with on ignore - but do that and you close off comments from those who have the knowledge in these areas (which you strangely refer to as opposing views?) and simply end up with a soundproof echo chamber of your own making.

As for your comment ...

...I'm not trying to attack the poster ... Maybe you could take a holiday and give us all a break for a week or 2.

Really? Not attacking the poster? Perhaps you would prefer others to stick their head in the sand and wiggle their fingers in their ears - singing la la la la no?

You're welcome.