aloooof wrote: » I find your posts pretty hard to follow tbh, but I'll try and reply. You've named: - 13 players you'd like to see tried over the next 24 months (some of which are in the squad, or have been tried in the past). - Then another 4, saying you're sure you're forgetting more - Then 7, who are our World Class players - Then 6 who are potentially World Class - Then 2 quality internationals. Honestly finding it hard to know exactly what you want. Can you name a 23 you'd like to see starting in our 2nd game of then 6 Nations against Wales, say?
Niallof9 wrote: » Yeah likewise so we have that in common. I am in work and don't have time to be editing and formatting etc or repeating stuff for people who can't comprehend or at least want to comprehend simple points/be pedantic over every small detail. i'm not quoting holy scripture or Macbeth at the globe here i think its pretty clear what i've said. We have the talent, we have the players. Summed up we have an abundance of talent. I am very hopeful for that reason. Called negative Niall on the other forum yet i'm being positive. Just can't win on boards. But if we go out on Saturday and it goes wrong, on top of the season we had and Japan we need to clear the decks for Andy to put his own stamp on it. I mean people are arguing going with the same 15 on some of the forums. Utter madness imo. I'm unsure how thats unclear? I have never blamed the players in any of this current setup. Its a fantastic team. For me only POM is not my cup of tea. But i get the love for him. Missing World class players in SOB, Leavy.
aloooof wrote: » Imo, there's plenty of time within a 4 year cycle to make changes. It doesn't require wholesale changes from day one.
aloooof wrote: » I feel I've been pretty clear on my position, which remains: Imo, you've been unclear as you've just listed a whole raft of players. Again, can you name a 23 you'd like to see starting in our 2nd game of then 6 Nations against Wales? It might give us some indication on how you'd like to see these players introduced alongside the current squad. Or do you literally want a whole new 15?
Niallof9 wrote: » Look who knows what clauses the central contracts have etc.
Podge_irl wrote: » If you’re suggesting they mean the player has to play there is no way that is there. The coach picks who he wants - the players he picks most get central contracts. It’s not the other way round. Results are too important to hamstring a coach in any way like that. Also form just can’t be the only selector. It could potentially play a larger role but you get a lot of flavour of the month campaigns for players who just disappear - it is very possible the head coach of the international team realises this will happen.
Deleted User wrote: » Even still, Schmidt did pick on form many times. Remember the Connacht lads on the South Africa tour. Turns out they had a ceiling and didn't last. Niallof9, you keep saying "things need to change" when Schmidt gave chances to tons of youth and new players over the last four years. You even list them yourself. Penny and Deegan et al will get a look in over the next four years if they are good enough. Deegan for example definitely has promise but has yet to reach the heights for Leinster that his hype implied. There aren't a huge amount of Ireland games. I feel like you're moaning for the sake of moaning. Yeah it's annoying that Ireland lost to Japan. Nobody predicted that though. A team that easily beat Scotland (who almost beat England at home 6 months ago). It isn't that outrageous given how Japan are performing.
Jump_In_Jack wrote: » I would expect that this squad from the RWC will stay together into the 6 Nations, after doing so much work together over the summer it would make sense to maximise their return up to that point. The 2020 tour to Australia with a tier 2 country (Fiji perhaps) would be the next obvious opportunity to try out some new players. I would expect anyone that is not going to feature in the 2021 6 Nations would be let go for that tour and for the Autumn matches. Rory Best will be gone after this RWC. Rob Kearney, Sean Cronin, and Johnny Sexton should be left behind next Summer. Keith Earls and Cian Healy are borderline, would probably leave Earls and take Healy. So we'd be looking at 2 new hookers, a new 10, a new wing, and a new fullback. We are most of the way there already really, Hooker: Scannell, Herring and one other; possibly Rhys Marshall or Bryan Byrne. 10: Carbery, Carty and Byrne Wing: Stockdale, Conway and one other; Dave Kearney or possibly Darren Sweetnam, Adam Byrne or Robert Baloucoune. Fullback: Larmour and one other; Addison or possibly Haley. I can't see Devin Toner or Sean O'Brien getting back into the squad anymore. Perhaps Dan Leavy can make a miraculous recovery. There could be a bit of change in the backups in a few positions, for example, Ultan Dillane, Quinn Roux, Gavin Thornbury, or Kieran Treadwell might feature as locks, Finlay Bealham, Marty Moore or Eric O'Sullivan as tight-head props, Jack McGrath or James Cronin as Loose-head props, or back-rows such as Max Deegan, Jack O'Donoghue, Matty Rea or Paul Boyle.
Dubinusa wrote: » Does our style of play change?
disposableFish wrote: » This is the only important question. We saw in 2015 how our lack of creativity sunk us. We failed to recognise this (instead blaming it on injuries), and we saw the same problem today. By creativity, I specifically mean the ability to create opportunities - making holes in defences by adding complexity that a team can't deal with and playing with enough tempo that they can't fill those holes in time. This is different to either "moments of magic" from broken-field/turnover plays where opportunities are presented and hopefully you're able to make use of them, or pre-arranged strike-plays. We should be aim to be good at these too, but the best teams are just too good to allow those moments to happen often enough. It's a recipe for constantly being 4/5th best in the World.Coach: With the above in mind, Farrell is a bad choice. He's not the type of coach to develop our game. It's doubly bad because we'll be losing a top-quality defence coach.Players: I think it's kind of the wrong question. We should develop our creativity and then pick the players that suit that. Naming names now is a fun guessing game, but pointless.Losing: We absolutely have to be more willing to do this. Look at how good NZ are - I fully believe that losing to us (and others) over the last few years have been fundamental to how good they're playing. Truthfully, they were experimenting with either players or style when they lost to us. They don't want to lose, not for a second and you can see how much it cuts them up, but they're willing to risk it.
Donnielighto wrote: » I disagree, NZ don't get over complicated, the opposite, get your basics and you decisions down across the squad then bring physicality as the last piece, team setup and layout is looked at by them but they just play it simply and don't go overboard. Don't tend to do overly intricate moves, you'll see them again and again Target and area of the pitch then when the defense adjusts they'll change attack and make ground.
whatawaster wrote: » My 34 man squad for the 6N TH - Furlong, Porter, Moore LH - Healy, Kilcoyne, O'Sullivan (not sue O'Sullivan will be there just yet, ? Jack McGrath) HK - Scannell, Marshall, B Byrne Lock - J Ryan, Henderson, Dillane, Beirne Back Row - (Leavy injured) - VDF, Stander, Conan, Deegan, Ruddock, POM Scrum-Half - Murray, Marmion/McGrath (would go for Marmion), Gibson-Park Out-Half - Carbery, Byrne, Carty Centre - Ringrose, Henshaw, Farrell, Arnold (Aki over Arnold - no reason not to have him, very durable and every present (harsh red aside)) Back 3 - Larmour, Conway, Stockdale, Addison, Lowry
connachta wrote: » For RWC 2023 we should have 2 decent outhalf backs per provinces. We could, bringing back the 2 Priemiership guys Ulster : Burns (29) + Herron (27) Connacht : Carty (31) + C.Fitzgerald (26) Leinster : Byrne (28) + Sheedy (27) Munster : Carbery (27) + Bleyendaal (33)
JJJackal wrote: » Doubt you need to bring people back - they are already 2-3 irish outhalves in each province - who will be available at next world cup Does callum sheedy see himself as Irish btw? Is herron good enough?
Niallof9 wrote: » Exactly what I’m suggesting. Peter on 550 k or Ruddock on what probably 250k...they will back their investment. It’s a chicken and egg situation at times which came first the central contract or the immovable undroppable player. Like I don’t know how some of the well paid undroppable look at the others in the eye. I’m sure there is tension. People will point to dev....probably on a lower salary as he’s not as marketable and he’s aging. I think it’s a factor you don’t, we will never know. Look at Bowe always making squads right to the bitter end on his 500 k Move to provincial contracts, private etc. ringfencing 12 guys from a 35 man squad in 2019 is dumb in my opinion. Zebo was snubbed and he thumbed his nose, rightly or wrongly but earls yesterday was making a mockery of his central contract and big bucks. We also get flavor of the months who never stood a chance. Of course form should play a major part just as it does at lower level.
Dubinusa wrote: » I believe there's a good group scratching the surface. Paul Boyle for me is probably the one who comes to mind. He's 21. I think he's got a good shout of making the extended squad, or better. Deegan, clearly he's something special. Speed and great carrying ability. He could crack the squad soon. Treadwell has been great for Ulster. Athletic and very big. He may be recalled. Marty Moore was great last year. He's a viable option at back up. Porter, should he revert to lh? In the backs, Tom Farrell has been really good. McCloskey and Gilroy could get another look and Hume may be an option in a year or two. I also think that Flannery in Munster looks like he could be a future option. A lot of talent hovering at the gate.
Former Former wrote: » I think this thread is a good reflection of the problem that we have at the moment. If a number of our current squad are not good enough/over the hill/trading on past glories, that's fair enough... but who are the players straining at the leash waiting to burst into the squad? Who's the guy that we HAVE to see in the next Six Nations? I can't really think of one tbh. Go back to 2007 and we crashed out in the group stages. There had been some criticism of the exclusion of Heaslip and Kearney, and to a lesser extent Bowe. By the end of the 2008 Six Nations, they were all starters, the following year they were all Lions test starters and were all central to our success over the next few years. Now, it's a huge ask for any player to hit the levels of Heaslip, Bowe and Kearney... but looking over the names being thrown around on this thread, I'm just not seeing anyone who's appreciably better than anyone who went to Japan or who can force his way into the reckoning from a long way back. Best guesses at additions to the set-up for 2020 6N are Rhys Marshall, Deegan and Gibson-Park - and none of them get my pulse racing tbh. Decent players but transformative? No.
Podge_irl wrote: » Why would the coach care what the player is earning? Anyway, central, provincial whatever, they're still all ultimately paid by the IRFU. People put far, far too much weight on the importance of having a central contract.
whatawaster wrote: » A change of approach is definitely needed more than a wholesale change of personnel. We have been left behind by the rest of the world in the last year. We have the players to play expansive, exciting, creative rugby. Most of the new faces in the squad should be down to natural turnover / retirements.
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