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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Looking at the team today one of the biggest mistakes actually was made over 12 months ago

The move of Carbery to 10 and pushing him to Munster has back fired massively. He should have been starting today but starting at 15.....

You'd feel that's how NZ would use him, second axis to build attacks through.

The Iron Giant

Niallof9 wrote: »

So anybody counter to your point of view is a troll?

Joe has been great for us. But would the all blacks take him if that’s what he would have them play? The facts are on the global stage in 2 world cups under joe we have failed

There are mitigating factors in both

Not at all. Never said that. But lazy sensationalist posts with no grounding in reality should be called out.

Also I tend to give posters who blow in mid World Cup positing a certain journalists musings credence as here to troll or rile up.

I agree that we have failed in this WC and the last. We shouldn't have finished second in our group but the rhetoric of Joe being a failed coach is at worst pathetic and at best ludicrous. We've no entitlement to win the WC, we're a very good team but we're not and have not consistently been the best team in the world who's world cup it was to lose.

Shefwedfan

Danthemanhere wrote: »

I think we might have to face facts, Schmidt wasn't nearly as good a coach as we previously thought.

What a load of BS

England wanted him and offered him serious money....
NZ could potentially still take him.....
Any top job in the World and he would be one of the first on the list if not at the top.....

He is one of the best coach's in the World.

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You'd feel that's how NZ would use him, second axis to build attacks through.

He was incredible for Leinster when playing at 15.,....

We are shoving him into 10 only because PJ got threw out, if PJ was still in squad would Carbery be playing 10? no he wouldnt, he would be at 15

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

He was incredible for Leinster

As with the rest of the team, it doesn't matter

Shefwedfan

Niallof9 wrote: »

So anybody counter to your point of view is a troll?

Joe has been great for us. But would the all blacks take him if that’s what he would have them play? The facts are on the global stage in 2 world cups under joe we have failed

There are mitigating factors in both

Joe changed his style numerous time to win games. He changes style based on the players available and opposition.

If he had the player NZ have then he would change style again.

Simple as that.

What he has done is changed grass roots rugby in Ireland so in a few years we could potentially have those players. Larmour/Carbery/Ryan etc are all products of the new system. All picked at a young age by Joe and all excellent passers etc.....

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

As with the rest of the team, it doesn't matter

He never started with Ireland at 15

As I said, if PJ was still in Ireland squad would Carbery be playing 10?

I very much doubt it, he would be still in Leinster playing 15 and for Ireland

Niallof9

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Not at all. Never said that. But lazy sensationalist posts with no grounding in reality should be called out.

Also I tend to give posters who blow in mid World Cup positing a certain journalists musings credence as here to troll or rile up.

I agree that we have failed in this WC and the last. We shouldn't have finished second in our group but the rhetoric of Joe being a failed coach is at worst pathetic and at best ludicrous. We've no entitlement to win the WC, we're a very good team but we're not and have not consistently been the best team in the world who's world cup it was to lose.

Ah yeah fair enough. Ok I’m over it. It was lost in Japan game not today. Negative critics like me moaning won’t turn back the clocks.

Want to see real change now going forward. 2018 is in the past and as the scots say there it shall remain. We thank Rory and joe for those great times. From 2015 - 2018 he won a lot of things and changed mentality, while he became even more risk averse in play he started to back young picks. Has been quite a ride and sad end for him.

I won’t continue the negativity or anything but can we please stop with the revisionism and denial it won’t help Irish rugby in the long run. People like myself torn apart for pointing out obvious things. I knew there was no moves. We were always playing that way. So the ultras just have to suck that up and everybody stop sniping. Let’s just all move on quickly. An absolute sickening day for Irish rugby I take no joy from it

Also get abused for pointing out good sources. Squidge rugby did a good review of Ireland. He even played a clip fast for about 20 minutes of play, constant one out runners and pick and jams.

So please for the sake of Irish rugby can we at least all be honest

Professor Genius

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What a load of BS

England wanted him and offered him serious money....
NZ could potentially still take him.....
Any top job in the World and he would be one of the first on the list if not at the top.....

He is one of the best coach's in the World.

Stop - that’s nonsense. Schmidt was oblivious to what has been obvious for the last 10 months about Ireland needing to be evolve from one dimensional Joeball. We’d been figured out. Everyone could see it except Almighty Joe ! And the Schmidt apologists peppering this forum with nonsense about how these ‘secret’ plays were being held back for a big game in the World Cup. Absolute nonsense.

sxt

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What a load of BS

England wanted him and offered him serious money....
NZ could potentially still take him.....
Any top job in the World and he would be one of the first on the list if not at the top.....

He is one of the best coach's in the World.

I'd love to see how good the French national team could be if they had a guy like Joe to be their head coach.

I think that is an offer he would consider in the future, seeing as he's lived and coached their before

Shefwedfan

Professor Genius wrote: »

Stop - that’s nonsense. Schmidt was oblivious to what has been obvious for the last 10 months about Ireland needing to be evolve from one dimensional Joeball. We’d been figured out. Everyone could see it except Almighty Joe ! And the Schmidt apologies peppering this forum with nonsense about how these ‘secret’ plays were being held back for a big game in the World Cup. Absolute nonsense.

Entitled to your opinion....

Joeball just confirms to me your knowledge of rugby.....

Podge_irl

So long Joe. Greatest ever Ireland coach by a ludicrous margin. Not everything went his way but by god did he overcome a lot of mental hurdles in Irish rugby. Almost nothing we “haven’t done” now in the pro era except, alas, the World Cup semi. There were reasons etc etc. But it just leaves scope for someone else to do better. Nothing, absolutely nothing can take away from what he has done for Irish rugby in the last 10 years.

Donnielighto

ClanofLams wrote: »

Sack off the six nations? So the only relevant tournament will be once every four years? Doesn’t sound great to support a team like that to be honest. But yeah picking on form and building a squad sounds good.

You can still win but it's not the priority in this situation. The WC is bigger and with the issues Ireland have in them it'd be a bigger achievement to reach a semi than get a GS, to me anyway but I'm fairly confident that'd be a common view. Phasing out players who won't be there or are expected to be on the downslope in 2023 should be the focus ow with at least 2 players legitimately competing for each spot.

Shefwedfan

sxt wrote: »

I'd love to see how good the French national team could be if they had a guy like Joe to be their head coach.

I think that is an offer he would consider in the future, seeing as he's lived and coached their before

I would expect he was offered already, he is moving back to NZ for family reasons.....

if he did get France, we are f**ked....dont expect any 6 nations soon and France would win the 2023 WC.....

Donnielighto

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Joe changed his style numerous time to win games. He changes style based on the players available and opposition.

If he had the player NZ have then he would change style again.

Simple as that.

What he has done is changed grass roots rugby in Ireland so in a few years we could potentially have those players. Larmour/Carbery/Ryan etc are all products of the new system. All picked at a young age by Joe and all excellent passers etc.....

I thought it was s nucifora being credited with that.

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would expect he was offered already, he is moving back to NZ for family reasons.....

if he did get France, we are f**ked....dont expect any 6 nations soon and France would win the 2023 WC.....

If the French had half a brain they would've gotten either one of himself or Cotter. We talk about wasting the talent we have, they should've won at least 2 WCs by now.

Shefwedfan

One thing to note

If Ireland threw away the 6 nations then irfu would go bust and bring all the provinces with them

So Maybe consider that why talking that nonsense

The WC is a 4 year event which based on current schedule will always suits the SH sides, they should move to a world rugby calendar and then see how it goes

Niallof9

The one positive is that this it I think. Like the Celtic tiger and the crash we’re in a sort of normal World now, less bluster. Similarly the golden generation is a moot point now, when we produce consistent talent. Who knows getting to a semi and losing could have been worse. I think finally we will appreciate November internationals for what they are: good bloody test wins and no more. Six Nations are important but I doubt we will head into another World Cup with such grandeur. A good thing imo. The final part of lens , the cycle complete. Having played with Jono feels a natural end for the old way.

All the best to Joe and Rory, 2015-2018 were some great times.

Never agreed with the style of play but he proved people like me wrong with trophies.

Positives are th talent coming through and the building blocks we retain in clubs and schools.

More work to do.

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

If the French had half a brain they would've gotten either one of himself or Cotter. We talk about wasting the talent we have, they should've won at least 2 WCs by now.

France always want a french coach and they have terrible coach’s.....

Professor Genius

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Entitled to your opinion....

Joeball just confirms to me your knowledge of rugby.....

Have a little read for yourself....

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup-2019/roy-curtis-this-world-cup-collapse-demolishes-the-notion-that-joe-schmidt-is-the-master-coach-of-his-era-38611073.html

Donnielighto

Shefwedfan wrote: »

One thing to note

If Ireland threw away the 6 nations then irfu would go bust and bring all the provinces with them

So Maybe consider that why talking that nonsense

The WC is a 4 year event which based on current schedule will always suits the SH sides, they should move to a world rugby calendar and then see how it goes

I get what you mean. If it's my comments you're referencing it's not to throw them exactly but if it's a case of not blooding players to try for a 6n then I'd prioritise targeting the WC, not 100% to 0 but more 70-30 focus on it. 6nations could try to move to later in the calendar year in 2023, start the domestic season 2 months later, run off the club games then and then have the 6 nation's as a meaningful completive warmup tournament.

Niallof9

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I would expect he was offered already, he is moving back to NZ for family reasons.....

if he did get France, we are f**ked....dont expect any 6 nations soon and France would win the 2023 WC.....

He’s staying in ireland

And we cannot continue on with the six nations cycle as is it cannot be Kearney earls etc

Niallof9

I suppose at least we now know that constant 12 crashes, one out runners and pick and jams won’t cut it at this top top level. Let’s embrace our natural skills. Let’s encourage Joey and Jordan to dance

Donnielighto

Professor Genius wrote: »

Have a little read for yourself....

https://m.independent.ie/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup-2019/roy-curtis-this-world-cup-collapse-demolishes-the-notion-that-joe-schmidt-is-the-master-coach-of-his-era-38611073.html

It's behind a paywall but the intro is pretty vitriolic.

Professor Genius

Donnielighto wrote: »

It's behind a paywall but the intro is pretty vitriolic.

Indo isn’t paywalled. Just register

Dubinusa

Didn't watch it. Absolutely shocked!
It appears we're not a top 4 team after all. While Schmidt has been a great coach, I think he got stuck with his own style for us to play, and he couldn't or wouldn't attempt to very it.
I think that it's good that he's leaving. We're stale and predictable. The top sides can beat us. We are a tunnel vision side.
Anyway, there's always the hope that the future will be better. I think it will be.

Shefwedfan

Professor Genius wrote: »

Indo isn’t paywalled. Just register

It written by Roy Curtis who is a soccer writer, I don’t even have to open it to know it’s a pile of sh*te

Danthemanhere

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Facts point to him being quite the opposite actually. The team weren't good enough, but that doesn't make him a bad coach. Put the world's best coach (whoever that is) in charge of Namibia, doesn't mean they're going to win the WC.

But please, continue trolling, don't let facts get in the way.

Facts are, 2 world cups, 2 failures! He's done well but his preparation for this world cup has been awful.

Danthemanhere

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

If you look at just the facts, he's Irelands most successful coach.
Players have to take responsibility too.

He'll rank above Kidney but after this world cup, just about.

Shefwedfan

Dubinusa wrote: »

Didn't watch it. Absolutely shocked!
It appears we're not a top 4 team after all. While Schmidt has been a great coach, I think he got stuck with his own style for us to play, and he couldn't or wouldn't attempt to very it.
I think that it's good that he's leaving. We're stale and predictable. The top sides can beat us. We are a tunnel vision side.
Anyway, there's always the hope that the future will be better. I think it will be.

We are a top 4 team

We have beaten all the top sides in the World

We came up against a very good NZ team and yes made some mistakes and some tactical mistakes but to throw out 6 years work because of one game is a bit over the top

nZ where incredible today, that has to be noted. We where poor as well and some of the players should be moved on, but trying to say we are not top 4 is incorrect