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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

[Deleted User]

Continued from here
https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057953711/251
All Ireland Senior XV related talk here.

MOD: Bear in mind this thread is starting during the World Cup window and the zero tolerance policy is in force. Trolling will be rewarded with an instant ban. For the duration of the tournament any mention of Zebo in this thread will not be permitted, it is just dragging current Ireland squad talk off topic.

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aloooof

Interested Observer wrote: »

His age isn't the reason. He's just not remotely close to international standard, he never demonstrated that while playing for Munster and he hasn't demonstrated it for Ireland. Hopefully Farrell sees sense.

I don't think he'll ever be first choice, but he's plenty good enough to get caps against the Tier 2 teams in the AI's or Italy in the 6 Nations. To say he'll never get capped again when he's 26 and plays in a position where typically players have greater longevity, is a huge leap imo.

Wegians89

aloooof wrote: »

I don't think he'll ever be first choice, but he's plenty good enough to get caps against the Tier 2 teams in the AI's or Italy in the 6 Nations. To say he'll never get capped again when he's 26 and plays in a position where typically players have greater longevity, is a huge leap imo.

Think there’s other players that offer more. Lock is a position well stocked in all the provinces.

Shefwedfan

part time punk wrote: »

More likely is whether Toner has played his last game for Ireland? I hope not but ...

Kleyn hasn’t really put himself forward as the future

I would like to see toner get a run out at home to say thank you but time has moved on and he should concentrate on another 2 HC for Leinster

blackwhite

darklighter wrote: »

Theres generally a 3 game package deal available to the public which is usually good value in my opinion

Former Former wrote: »

Tickets for November games are always made available on Ticketmaster. The majority do go elsewhere but always plenty for general sale.

For the 2018 series the NZ tickets were oversubscribed by clubs, schools & commercial, so no tickets were put on general sale, and there were no 3 game bundles for the general public - only via clubs.

If tomorrow morning (and next year's 6 Nations) goes well, then I'd expect similar to happen for 2020 AIs, and with NZ coming in 2021 I'd expect that to be oversubscribed as well.

Demand was so high that the provincial Branches were emailing the clubs from early summer 2018 warning that they weren't going to get their full allocations for the NZ game.

Shefwedfan

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I've a sneaking suspicion Dev might be off to France. His contract is up at the end of this season, and if he's out of the international picture there's a good chance he might take the cash for a year or two abroad in the vein of POC and Donnacha Ryan.

I don't think so, it is not like Leinster have an abundance of second row's.

Toner has struggled in last few months with injuries. He has played well now with Leinster and if an injury happened to a second row he would be first person on the plane....a long plane

For all we know we could see Dev lining up in the WC final

Farrell could come in and decide he needs Toner is back in squad for 6 nations.

If he does go then really he owes nothing to Ireland or Leinster, he has been an incredible servant to irish rugby. My favorite is still back in 2011 when he nailed Chabal when he was playing for Racing

phog

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I've a sneaking suspicion Dev might be off to France. His contract is up at the end of this season, and if he's out of the international picture there's a good chance he might take the cash for a year or two abroad in the vein of POC and Donnacha Ryan.

Under Joe it certainly looks like it but Joe is gone after our last game in the W/Cup and Andy takes over. Toner would be stupid to make any plans about his future until he knows where he stands with Farrell.

The one thing in typing this post is the shocking reality is that we're losing Joe now, as in now not sometime off into the future

[Deleted User]

aloooof wrote: »

I don't think he'll ever be first choice, but he's plenty good enough to get caps against the Tier 2 teams in the AI's or Italy in the 6 Nations. To say he'll never get capped again when he's 26 and plays in a position where typically players have greater longevity, is a huge leap imo.

But why would you bother? We obviously can't see the future so maybe he'll be capped again but there's no need for him to be and I certainly hope he isn't.

ClanofLams

Kleyn is a 26 year old second row that, rightly or wrongly, Joe Schmidt saw enough in to bring him ahead of Devin Toner. I don’t expect him to be a regular fixture in the 23 but if I had to back on whether he ever gets capped again, I would definitely be backing him to do so.

aloooof

Interested Observer wrote: »

But why would you bother? We obviously can't see the future so maybe he'll be capped again but there's no need for him to be and I certainly hope he isn't.

Because injuries happen to the first choice guys. That alone would mean I'd expect him to at least pick up a handful more caps.

Shefwedfan

ClanofLams wrote: »

Kleyn is a 26 year old second row that, rightly or wrongly, Joe Schmidt saw enough in to bring him ahead of Devin Toner. I don’t expect him to be a regular fixture in the 23 but if I had to back on whether he ever gets capped again, I would definitely be backing him to do so.

OF course Kleyn will get capped again.....but has hardly lit up the World.

More experience of course will help but nothing to say Treadwell/Dillane etc couldn't jump him and push for a starting spot.

Same as Toner if he is back in form couldn't force his way back into the squad.

ClanofLams

Shefwedfan wrote: »

OF course Kleyn will get capped again.....but has hardly lit up the World.

More experience of course will help but nothing to say Treadwell/Dillane etc couldn't jump him and push for a starting spot.

Same as Toner if he is back in form couldn't force his way back into the squad.

No idea what that has to do with what I posted.
Didn’t say he had lit up the world or players couldn’t get past him in squad selection.

stephen_n

Gonad wrote: »

I’m seriously considering putting 500 euros on the 4 underdogs this weekend .

Australia
Ireland
France
Japan

500 pays back 150K

The first 3 are very possible . The Japan game less likely but maybe worth the punt . Missus is trying to talk me round to just putting 100 on it but secretly thinking of sticking down 1000

Gaff bought and a new car in the garden by the end of next week

If you have 500 to lose why not?

I would say there is more chance of Japan winning than France though.

riddles

Odds on that 15/1 circa 7.5k returns I would have thought

Cosmo Kramer

A sad end to the Schmidt era. A fantastic effort from 2013 to 2018 but the final year was an utter disaster from start to finish.

Something has clearly been off all year, aside from a couple of decent efforts against a bad Scotland team we've been hopeless really.

Key uncharacteristic errors from the coaching and management staff have been a feature also which we hadn't seen before.

Tactics were all wrong against Japan, crucial squad selection decisions involving Kleyn, Luke McGrath and carrying an unfit Henshaw were all serious and bizarre misjudgements that could be seen by most people who follow the team, but somehow not by the coaching staff. More of a minor point but the idea held by management that they could announce the world cup squad to the players but somehow keep it from the public for another six days was ridiculous as well and indicative of the basic mistakes that have been made.

Hopefully in time the Schmidt era will be remembered more for the successes of the first five years than the disaster of 2019 and the failure to perform at both World Cups. The problem, though, is that everything else was geared as preparation towards those two World Cups so the successes sadly must be caveated by how both World Cup cycles ended. Therefore the Schmidt era, despite the obvious and unforgettable successes of ABs x 2, 3 six nations titles, the grand slam and the Australia series, has nonetheless in a way been a disappointing one.

The big problem now is that it feels like we need a fresh start with a new coaching team, but unfortunately we're getting continuity that seemed like a good idea at the time but now feels like a sideways or, more likely, a backwards step.

A long road ahead from here for the Irish rugby team.

AbusesToilets

2015 was his best chance, circumstances ****ed that up.

ClanofLams

I don’t think most supporters will view the Schmidt era as a disappointing one, more one with a very disappointing end.

I do think the appointment of Farrell looks a very hasty one. If a shortlist was being drawn up today, he may be on it but fairly far from the top of it I think. NZ had no problem going to World Cup without appointment, Ireland should have done likewise. Plenty of time between now and February to make appointment.

AbusesToilets

ClanofLams wrote: »

I don’t think most supporters will view the Schmidt era as a disappointing one, more one with a very disappointing end.

I do think the appointment of Farrell looks a very hasty one. If a shortlist was being drawn up today, he may be on it but fairly far from the top of it I think. NZ had no problem going to World Cup without appointment, Ireland should have done likewise. Plenty of time between now and February to make appointment.

I'll look at how Joe shaped our tactics as disappointed. We've regressed to the worst of the Kidney era, so one dimensional. The players are capable of so much better. That's all on Joe

D.Q

Can't wait for weeks and weeks of whinging ex pros on podcasts.

[Deleted User]

We need a clearout now. An international version of that 15/16 season where Leinster totally refocussed on youth and skills, and paid massive dividends later. None of this embarrassing "he's not ready" ****e. Anyone who doesn't have requisite ball skills should simply be gone until they do have them, because we're never going be able to grind teams down again, that's over.

Schmidt has been magnificent for Irish rugby overall so this is a really sad way of seeing him bow out. Cheers for everything Joe.

ClanofLams

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'll look at how Joe shaped our tactics as disappointed. We've regressed to the worst of the Kidney era, so one dimensional. The players are capable of so much better. That's all on Joe

It’s still gonna be an era with three six nations including a grand slam, two wins over NZ, win in South Africa, series win in Australia, etc

If that’s a disappointing era, sign me up. Albeit if a rwc semi final could be thrown in that would be great.

troyzer

Credit to Schmidt for the Six Nations, AI and tour successes but he ultimately completely failed on the biggest stage.

His lasting legacy won't be silverware, it'll be the culture of winning he instilled in a new generation of players like Ryan, Larmour and Stockdale who might win a world cup some day. He deserves a lot of credit for the new Irish system of conveyor belt talent as well.

Sad end for Best.

The books about this one will be interesting. Players were very unhappy with the 2007 comparisons but they're absolutely spot on. The only difference was we had a weaker group this time

thebaz

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'll look at how Joe shaped our tactics as disappointed. We've regressed to the worst of the Kidney era, so one dimensional. The players are capable of so much better. That's all on Joe

The big worry is we are going to get more of the same with Farrell , decision should have been made post world cup, not before another possible WC failure, which has happened . Our WC record is at this stage is shocking . Like other big countrys we should be shaping for a WC not another 6 nations championchip, sadly Joe has failed on this task, would have loved if he hadnt, but would love to see someone revolutionary taking charge , not more of the same , as we will get with Farrell.

AbusesToilets

Agree on needed a complete clear out. An end to limited players who tactical nous ends at the feet of their tackler

Squidgy Black

Definition of humbling. We had zero attacking threat, no excuses, we were just completely dominated by a much better team. Spent the last year thinking maybe we're just out of form and haven't had a chance to get everything together, but today showed that we're just not up to that level at the moment. Disappointing to see Joe and Rory bow out like this considering it wasn't even a contest.

Fair play to the ABs and best of luck to the NZers who post here.

ClanofLams

troyzer wrote: »

Credit to Schmidt for the Six Nations, AI and tour successes but he ultimately completely failed on the biggest stage.

His lasting legacy won't be silverware, it'll be the culture of winning he instilled in a new generation of players like Ryan, Larmour and Stockdale who might win a world cup some day. He deserves a lot of credit for the new Irish system of conveyor belt talent as well.

Sad end for Best.

The books about this one will be interesting. Players were very unhappy with the 2007 comparisons but they're absolutely spot on. The only difference was we had a weaker group this time

Another comparison to ‘07 is the hasty decision to give O’Sullivan long term contract has been matched by arguably an equally hasty decision to appoint a coach to his first head coaching position at international level.

Rebelbrowser

Lads I posted as follows on 26 Nov last as soon as Joe announced he was going. I was fairly firmly rebuked. This wasnt Nostramadus stuff, it was bloody obvious imho....

"....With the best will in the world this big time damages Ireland's RWC chances. The continuity thing helps but once a manager says he is going he has to have some small element of lame duck to him. Think Alex Ferguson in ca. 2003. His authority is inevitably undermined. Certainly by next Sept the players are going to be listening more to Farrell than to Joe. The king is dead and all that...."

AbusesToilets

I wish we could institute a ban on hyping wins in Nov. We never do it when it matters most.

walshb

The haters probably say that try was a fluke...

ClanofLams

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

Lads I posted as follows on 26 Nov last as soon as Joe announced he was going. I was fairly firmly rebuked. This wasnt Nostramadus stuff, it was bloody obvious imho....

"....With the best will in the world this big time damages Ireland's RWC chances. The continuity thing helps but once a manager says he is going he has to have some small element of lame duck to him. Think Alex Ferguson in ca. 2003. His authority is inevitably undermined. Certainly by next Sept the players are going to be listening more to Farrell than to Joe. The king is dead and all that...."

It doesn’t seem to be affecting Steve Hansen or Warren Gatland. Correlation doesn’t equal causation as they say.

Cosmo Kramer

Rebelbrowser wrote: »

Lads I posted as follows on 26 Nov last as soon as Joe announced he was going. I was fairly firmly rebuked. This wasnt Nostramadus stuff, it was bloody obvious imho....

"....With the best will in the world this big time damages Ireland's RWC chances. The continuity thing helps but once a manager says he is going he has to have some small element of lame duck to him. Think Alex Ferguson in ca. 2003. His authority is inevitably undermined. Certainly by next Sept the players are going to be listening more to Farrell than to Joe. The king is dead and all that...."

I don't think that has been the issue though. I don't see how, if he hadn't announced it until after today's game, it would have made the slightest bit of difference.

There have been a lot of mistakes made my the Irish coaching staff in the last year but I don't see that announcement as being part of the problems at all.

As pointed out by others, it's not an issue for NZ or Wales.