MrMusician18 wrote: » Remain let the leavers control the narrative and were simply unable to get their message heard. A simple example of this was the leavers tactic of saying something demonstrably untrue as a televised panel discussion was being wound up. Never challenged, either on the spot by refusing to let the piece be wound up or complaining afterwards. Newsnight in particular was terrible for this.
jmayo wrote: » Newsnight was a disgrace. One of the few people on there that really stood up was Gina Miller who took no shyte from the eejits in the audience who had to have been plants. Corbyn's leadership is responsible for Labour's failure to either capitalise on a severely dysfunctional Tory party or prevent UK's exit based on a dodgy referendum where a lot of people probably regret their voting decision.
LuckyLloyd wrote: » I suppose it’s a slam dunk for those who want to nail Varadkar to the wall. You said ‘never’ and came back with ‘maybe’. Again: If we reach a point where a majority of people in NI want out of this arrangement or out of the GFA well we better get everyone back around the table and spend two years figuring it out. Creating a situation via negotiation that will leave the DUP and the harder edge of their constituency perpetually unhappy with no mechanism by which to effectively express that is as bad as locking nationalists within a hard border by dint of No Deal. I’m very happy with this compromise: the will of NI and clear timelines to find new arrangements if necessary.
Beechwoodspark wrote: » I also think it’s v suspicious Likes of Gove and Rees Mogg praising the deal to the heavens ERG appear to be happy DUP doing a vow of silence ?!? Something is up. Is it a tactic to lead to either no deal or an election?
Bambi wrote: » I could care less about Varadker when it comes to this, if he wasn't running the show it would be Michael Martin and I would have held him to the same standard. I supect you'll defend Varadker and Coveney regardless All along our government had support across the board based on their two red lines: They would not sign up to anything that could create a hard border The Good Friday agreement could not be compromised. When push came to shove they abandoned both on the basis that it might never happen. "Might never happen" in an era where Donald Trump is president of the USA. It should not be withing the gift of politicians in the north to destroy the Good Friday agreement it was and All Ireland agreement ratified by the people of this island north and south via referendum not elections. You can try engage in some jesuitical justification for this reversal but the reality is that they abandoned a position that had support right across the island. And people go on about Boris not being trustworthy.
Bambi wrote: » You can try engage in some jesuitical justification for this reversal but the reality is that they abandoned a position that had support right across the island. And people go on about Boris not being trustworthy.
Rjd2 wrote: » 8/13 on Betfair Boris loses on Saturday, and 8/15 or so with the high street bookies it loses if you want to bet in a betting shop. That and Liverpool beating United on Sunday is my lock of the weekend.
Bambi wrote: » I could care less about Varadker when it comes to this, if he wasn't running the show it would be Michael Martin and I would have held him to the same standard. I supect you'll defend Varadker and Coveney regardless All along our government had support across the board based on their two red lines: They would not sign up to anything that could create a hard border The Good Friday agreement could not be compromised. When push came to shove they abandoned both on the basis that it might never happen. "Might never happen" in an era where Donald Trump is president of the USA. It should not be withing the gift of politicians in the north to destroy the Good Friday agreement it was an All Ireland agreement ratified by the people of this island north and south via referendum not elections. You can try engage in some jesuitical justification for this reversal but the reality is that they abandoned a position that had support right across the island. And people go on about Boris not being trustworthy.
Deleted User wrote: » Just now on the Guardian: EU will not grant any further extension, says Juncker, implying MPs must choose between this deal and no deal Jean-Claude Juncker, the European commission president, has said the EU will grant another Brexit extension. This is hugely significant, because, if the rest of the EU27 agree - and it is not clear yet whether he is speaking on their behalf - it means MPs will effectively be faced with a choice between this deal and no deal I was going to post saying France should come out with this.
MrMusician18 wrote: » Surely the DUP couldn't back a deal in a referendum that they refused to vote for in parliament?
Joe_ Public wrote: » I was talking about practical measures remain mps could take in parliament and wondering what they were. Somebody mentioned I think, "extraordinary parliamentary acts", earlier but what are these? A couple of months ago there was consensus that mps might not be able to stop no deal. Before that the idea of mps taking control of the order of business was almost unprecedented. I still ask what more should they have done?
MrMusician18 wrote: » From my understanding, and I could be wrong, was that the Benn act just required Johnson to bring a deal back or be required to ask for an extension at the council meeting. Now that there is a deal on the table and that won't be voted on until after the council meeting, there is no requirement to ask for an extension. Therefore if the deal fails to pass, it means a no deal exit unless Johnson asks for an extension (which he won't be compelled to do) and there is an emergency European council meeting to grant said extension.
Section 1 obliges the Prime Minister to request an extension to the Article 50 negotiating period for the purpose of negotiating a withdrawal agreement, unless the House of Commons has passed a motion which either approves a withdrawal agreement or approves departure without a deal, and the House of Lords has debated the same motion. If such a motion is not approved, the Prime Minister is obliged to make the request no later than 19 October 2019
Deleted User wrote: » That YT link above is worth a watch. Juncker really adamant about no extension.
[Deleted User] wrote: » That YT link above is worth a watch. Juncker really adamant about no extension.
Headshot wrote: » BJ 6 defeats in a row in the UK Parliament. This might be a chance for a confirmation referendum
dancingwith wrote: » The Guardian are reporting that Juncker says its this deal or no deal !EU will not grant any further extension, says Juncker, implying MPs must choose between this deal and no deal This is hugely significant, because, if the rest of the EU27 agree - and it is not clear yet whether he is speaking on their behalf - it means MPs will effectively be faced with a choice between this deal and no deal
20silkcut wrote: » The fact that no significant charismatic leader emerged to rally the remain side is a failure. If brexit was the biggest political mandate in British history , then remaining in the EU is the second biggest. Out of 16 million people no one emerged to take down the likes of Farage , Johnson , mogg etc. Tony Blair is probably the highest profile Face of the remain side that says a lot. It was an abject failure. It took a massive effort by the likes of Ted Heath , Harold McMillan , Roy Jenkins etc to get Britain into the EU . The fact that no one emerged at this time of similar drive and passion and stature to them is a failure. Especially when it’s clear the mandate is there.
LeinsterDub wrote: » Adamant about no extension if it's passed. Not if it's rejected
Penn wrote: » They could vote for the deal with an amendment that there's to be a referendum on it and that Johnson must request an extension in order to facilitate it. If that were to happen, Johnson would be compelled to request for the extension, and despite what Juncker has said, I'd say the EU would grant it. At least in that scenario it's an extension which results in a definitive decision via a referendum.
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