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Ireland Versus New Zealand Build Up Thread

andymx11

Thought this deserves a thread of its own - starting on a less than ideal note... Rumours Sexton is out

To get a coffee.

What did we tell the Irish management team about letting him out of their sight?

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sydthebeat

Danthemanhere wrote: »

Beirne can cover the back row. Risky but it's also risky starting Henshaw with only Larmour as his cover.

Back three, not back row

Farrell doesn't provide any cover outside of 12 and 13....

Larmour has played at test level at every position from 12 to 15

aloooof

sydthebeat wrote: »

like most of this kiwi team, SBW doesnt hold the frightening aura he once had.

This year he has been playing as a bosh merchant... averaging just 3.6 m per carry (the lowest of all your options by a good bit)

He is always likely to do something stupid, though coming from the bench he wont be as tired so less chance of a brain fart.

Im glad its not crotty and ALB we're facing, i think thats your best 12 / 13 combo. Goodhue has been ripping it up at club level but i dont think hes been put under any serious pressure yet at test level.

I'd agree with alot of this. Also think BB has a mistake in him, particularly with his kicking. Tho I am worried about him with more space to work in, coming from FB. The guy is lightening and has carved us open in the past.

Danthemanhere

sydthebeat wrote: »

Back three, not back row

Farrell doesn't provide any cover outside of 12 and 13....

Larmour has played at test level at every position from 12 to 15

Beirne? He can cover the back row. We would be a forward sub down though. There really should be more subs, especially with all the concerns about player welfare.

aloooof

raclle wrote: »

unpopular opinion but ive always been on the fence with Earls as he's got big mistakes in him.

He's also got try saving tackles in him. The tracking back for Japan, Italy and the try saving one in the corner versus England, for example. He's footwork is also so good in tight spaces, he's brilliant at eeking out some yards.

D.Q

I wonder will NZ not having really played a match for a few weeks have any effect. Would be incredible if they came out like a team in pre-season. :pac::pac:

Niallof9

D.Q wrote: »

I wonder will NZ not having really played a match for a few weeks have any effect. Would be incredible if they came out like a team in pre-season. :pac::pac:

Yeah except for the Rugby Championships. Its really mid season for them. they had more bodies of games than Ireland. Our warm ups barely count. These were competitive matches.

andymx11

thebaz wrote: »

I'm a massive Larmour fan , but if Henshaw goes off, would prefer Carberry to come in and play with 2 10's as such - Earls is not an international level centre - Carberry/Sexton may work , if we were forced into such

Yea agreed but for some reason Joe mentions earls as centre cover so often. I think only last week he said Larmour is a back 3 player (not centre) and Earls can slot in there.

aloooof

Anyone have any ideas when Ireland last went into a game as 12 point underdogs? Guessing here, but I'd imagine it's probably that game that didn't happen in 2013?

evil_seed

sydthebeat wrote: »

i much prefer Robbie Henshaw protecting Ringroses inside shoulder in this game than Aki.

Bundee has shown that he can be caught focusing too much on the inside, either to make a dominant hit, or simply getting caught blitzing when the rest of the back line are drifting. Ringrose and henshaw have a good understanding in there, and garry has no issue trusting robbie on his inside.
Thats vitally important when playing against this AB backline with BB at 15.
BB often pops up between the 12 and 13 as either a strike runner or as a second play maker.
Often Mounga actually skips his 12 to get the ball straight to BB, and in turn BB skips the 13 to get the ball straight to the wing.
When that happens we need a very fluid, vocal and trusting center partnership... and i think we have the best one starting.

Henshaw is also a big fan of this

[Deleted User]

aloooof wrote: »

Anyone have any ideas when Ireland last went into a game as 12 point underdogs? Guessing here, but I'd imagine it's probably that game that didn't happen in 2013?

Possibly Chicago

kilns

Tomtom364 wrote: »

People give POM this kinda stick all the time.
Usually the excuse given to write off his outstanding performances ala November '18 all blacks win as him only having singular stand out performances on these types of occasions

Surely if that reason to write him off regularly is true then this is exact the game you would then actually want him in...

Maybe due to the fact he is an average tackler, is slow and is a poor ball carrier has something to do with the criticism

Again he is lucky we are light in back row cover

raclle

aloooof wrote: »

He's also got try saving tackles in him. The tracking back for Japan, Italy and the try saving one in the corner versus England, for example. He's footwork is also so good in tight spaces, he's brilliant at eeking out some yards.

I hear ya but he tends to get sucked in a lot when ball goes out wide which NZ are notorious for.

AbusesToilets

raclle wrote: »

I hear ya but he tends to get sucked in a lot when ball goes out wide which NZ are notorious for.

Justiceforkeith has some examples of painful times against NZ previously. Earls has really impressed me over the last few seasons, wasn't a fan of his for a long time. Similarly to Kearney, he's stepped it up formwise as he gets closer to the end. I'd trust him to perform well on Sat.

aloooof

raclle wrote: »

I hear ya but he tends to get sucked in a lot when ball goes out wide which NZ are notorious for.

I actually think Earls' scramble is very good when teams get beyond the edge. I'd actually be more worried about Stockdale's shooting out of the line in those scenario's tbh. (Tho he did time a brilliant one against Scotland iirc).

Imo, Earls is often unheralded / underrated, but there's a reason he was players player of the year in 2018.

Clegg

I'm really looking forward to the head to heads between the centres. Ringrose and Lienert-Brown have been brilliant this tournament. Hope they both light it up again on Saturday.

prawnsambo

Muahahaha wrote: »

This is pretty much how I see it going. Provided we defend the inevitable opening blitz we should stay with them but around 65 mins they will pull away; its just what they do. Hope we put up a good showing but I cant see us winning, would be very happy to be wrong though but just feel for us to win absolutely everything has to go right, no butterfingers, no missed conversions or penalties, no loss of our own line outs and getting the bounce of the ball. We need everything going our way to pull it off and unfortunately that hasnt been happening of late.

I know it was Canada and they were 61 points up, but it struck me that NZ didn't pull away in the last 20 minutes. In fact they didn't score a single point in that time. All the above caveats apply of course, but it was a bit of a surprise how sloppy they were in that period. They almost conceded a try only for Peter Nelson straightening up instead of heading for the corner flag.

PhlegmyMoses

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Justiceforkeith has some examples of painful times against NZ previously. Earls has really impressed me over the last few seasons, wasn't a fan of his for a long time. Similarly to Kearney, he's stepped it up formwise as he gets closer to the end. I'd trust him to perform well on Sat.

My only real issue with Earls is that you never feel like he is going to catch fire in a big game and create things out of nothing in attack. A harsh criticism because he is fundamentally very good and he suits Schmidt's system, I just wish I had the confidence that he would run in a couple of tries out of nothing. I have more confidence in Stockdale in that regard

AbusesToilets

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

My only real issue with Earls is that you never feel like he is going to catch fire in a big game and create things out of nothing in attack. A harsh criticism because he is fundamentally very good and he suits Schmidt's system, I just wish I had the confidence that he would run in a couple of tries out of nothing. I have more confidence in Stockdale in that regard

I'd agree with that for the most part. He's one of the best finishers we have, I'd back him to score given half a yard. That said, for a player with his experience and skills, he doesn't feature much in attack off his wing. It's rare you'd see him being used to break the line off 10 or 12. Open to correction on that, that's my impression of him but can't say I've done any in depth study on it.

Earls can be deadly on the outside in broken play, and his pace is pretty amazing given his age profile.

andymx11

I don’t know why but I’m so optimistic that it’s unsettling...

A strong defensive effort - win penalties on the back of this and Sexton brings his kicking boots. I think a similar Scoreline to 2018 is on the cards.

Shefwedfan

Not sure if mentioned but I wonder is ROG giving the team some hints and tips. He was the coach of a lot of these players for 2 years. He has moved on and he has a good relationship with Joe......

yerrahbah

kilns wrote: »

Maybe due to the fact he is an average tackler, is slow and is a poor ball carrier has something to do with the criticism

Again he is lucky we are light in back row cover

Ya being reduced to having Ruddock on the bench doesn't inspire confidence

Yeah_Right

Feeling even more confident after seeing those teams. We're going to crush the Irish. There's no attacking threat that Irish team unless you count boring the ABs to death with phase after phase after phase after phase after phase of one out hit ups going no where.

Squidgy Black

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Not sure if mentioned but I wonder is ROG giving the team some hints and tips. He was the coach of a lot of these players for 2 years. He has moved on and he has a good relationship with Joe......

I'd say he's probably a bit preoccupied preparing for the Racing 92 game this Saturday but yeah you would expect Andy Farrell would have had a discussion with ROG previously to discuss tactics that were used by NZ teams.

By all accounts ROG has kept a decent relationship with the IRFU since being involved with the last Japan tour.

Yeah_Right

A little video to help you Paddies get through the trauma on Saturday.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116676986/air-new-zealand-shows-ireland-fans-the-door-ahead-of-rugby-world-cup-quarterfinal

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A little video to help you Paddies get through the trauma on Saturday.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/rugby-world-cup/rwc-2019-japan/116676986/air-new-zealand-shows-ireland-fans-the-door-ahead-of-rugby-world-cup-quarterfinal

Buckle up matey.

[Deleted User]

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Feeling even more confident after seeing those teams. We're going to crush the Irish. There's no attacking threat that Irish team unless you count boring the ABs to death with phase after phase after phase after phase after phase of one out hit ups going no where.

Deep down, you know there's a good chance Ireland could win. Could you imagine the devastation you will feel. Sexton starting his first world cup knock out game will ensure that.

aloooof

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Feeling even more confident after seeing those teams. We're going to crush the Irish. There's no attacking threat that Irish team unless you count boring the ABs to death with phase after phase after phase after phase after phase of one out hit ups going no where.... except into the semi-finals.

Fixed you post.

Yeah_Right

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Deep down, you know there's a good chance Ireland could win. Could you imagine the devastation you will feel. Sexton starting his first world cup knock out game will ensure that.

He ain't going to finish it though. He'll be lucky to see half time.

[Deleted User]

Yeah_Right wrote: »

He ain't going to finish it though. He'll be lucky to see half time.

At least Sam Cane will get red carded if he tries that this time around

Niallof9

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Feeling even more confident after seeing those teams. We're going to crush the Irish. There's no attacking threat that Irish team unless you count boring the ABs to death with phase after phase after phase after phase after phase of one out hit ups going no where.

have you teleported back in time like all the other pundits?

https://www.the42.ie/kiwi-pundits-write-off-irelands-quarter-final-hopes-4855086-Oct2019/

Its hardly vintage New Zealand. Personal wise Ireland have nothing to fear imo. Go through the names down the years...full of super stars. We were in awe. Thats all gone for all the teams. Some of the tours Ireland went on in the so called golden generation were piss ups. 2012 ended in farce but Kidney was on his last legs. Joe for all his faults has changed the landscape and we've won 2 out of the last 3. And the other 2 were close calls with hugely questionable decisions.

We are boring and all that yeah. Out of form. But its not like before. Not saying we can win or anything but its not like the bad old days for us at all.
Our main opponent on Saturday is the top 2 inches, never got to a semi and all that. there's inexperience in that Kiwi side. Potential class maybe, but Goodhue, Reece, Mounga, Bridge all have alot to prove. Retallick injury. Aging Read ala best. Cane a version of VDF and not a mcCaw. Barett is the one danger to us really as he walks into any of the NZ teams of the past.

Alot of arrogance on show and its sort of why people like myself who used to love New Zealand as a kid actually hate it as a rugby nation now.

Bit of ****ing humility wouldn't go amiss.

I would love, love it if we beat you guys in a competitive game.Over marketed, Dirty tactics, cheating, questionable pre match advantage and arrogance all tarnish a once loved rugby country. Love it.

The tactics Joe uses (as much as i criticise and hate them) are perfect for New Zelaand cause you guys can get brought into a arm wrestle. You want to prove that yes you can go around, but you can also go through, maul, scrum, ruck. Its your one weakness as a team imo. If you actually just stuck to playing outrageously...forgetting about earning the right or trying to beat misconceptions like the maul or scrum issues you'd be unbeatable. You have the Kilkenny hurling thing of just being naturally annoyingly good at rugby through a number of factors we can never replicate - numbers playing, and the age profile at take up. The GAA means we will never compete consistently.

I know alot of what you are saying is tongue in cheek or maybe i'm mixing up swiwi from before.