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Scottish independence

Faye McAleer

Would you be in support of a politico-economic union and formal international intergovernmental cooperation between the three Gaelic nations, (united) Ireland, (independent) Scotland and the Isle of Man similar to Benelux?

The Benelux cooperation has served as a model for the EU, and is basically an EU lite, comprising a customs union and a parliament as well as shared resources.

This could work between the three Gaelic nations and when we get reunification and the Scottish get independence, I think it is something good that should be created.

What do you think?

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LoughNeagh2017

briany wrote: »

It's an interesting idea, but I don't know how it would work in practice. We can say on a casual basis that Irish and Scottish people are very similar, but when it comes to forming a political union, any cultural differences would be immediately exacerbated. You'd potentially have the Irish and Highland Scots on one side, with Lowland Scots and Northern Irish on the other, with everyone arguing about where the parliament building should be.

Highland Scots are from a "Northern Irish" ancestry

[Deleted User]

LoughNeagh2017 wrote: »

Highland Scots are from a "Northern Irish" ancestry

not just the highlands, pretty much all Scots with the exception of the South East.

In DNA tests, there is very little to distinguish between the Scots and the Irish, from what i can gather.

derrymcorry

At the SNP conference in Aberdeen today Nicola Sturgeon said that they were preparing for a second independence referendum at the end of next year. She also said that Westminster couldn't stop it and Scotland was being taken out of the EU despite the electorate voting to remain. She said that Scotland is an economically viable independent nation.

What do you think about Scottish independence? Do you believe that it would be in the best interests of the Scottish people to become an indpendent country within the EU?

I, as an Irish republican, would be delighted to see an indpendent Scotland as I believe they could be our best friend within the EU now with England gone.

Also, think about the benefits that Scottish independence could have for Irish reunification.

2ygb4cmqetsjhx

I hope they go for it. I wonder how the Tories will spin it. All their old slogans are great. Better together. No Thanks. If you leave the UK you will have to apply to join the EU

[Deleted User]

I say it every time Scottish independence is mentioned here on boards.

Scottish independence would be economically bad for Ireland.

In the EU, speaking English etc they could be a direct competitor to Ireland for the FDI we so much rely on.

Other than Irish republicans like the op describes themselves as, who see this as a way to get back at the English by proxy, I don't see why anyone in Ireland should be in favour of the idea.

US2

This "we voted remain" is nonsense. Should gay marriage still be illegal in rosscomon ?

bilbot79

Ulster was planted to sever the link between Celts in Ireland and Scotland. Paradoxically, Britain's quest to feel like an empire again is undoing the last remnants of the empire.

derrymcorry

An independent Scotland and a united Ireland would be best friends within the EU.

England can do whatever it wants. An independent Scotland and Ireland within the EU would lead both countries to thrive.

Scotland is big enough, populous enough and rich enough to be independent.

They have a higher national income per head of population than France, Japan and New Zealand.

They have North Sea oil.

They have scotch:D.

They would do brilliantly as an independent state, just as Ireland would as a reunified state.

Kermit.de.frog

Scots see Ireland's influence in Brexit - and their own influence as part of the UK.

No contest really, is it? Scotland have been completely ignored.

BorneTobyWilde

Yea Scotland are the ones sitting on the side of play ground as the rest of them play with their lives.

Donnielighto

US2 wrote: »

This "we voted remain" is nonsense. Should gay marriage still be illegal in rosscomon ?

The recent Independence ref the remain side were saying that a big reason for attain in the UK was the EU.

Roscommon isn't an independent area but if they want to cede to ban gay marriage that's up to them to bring forward, nothing to do with Scotland's situation.

Donnielighto

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I say it every time Scottish independence is mentioned here on boards.

Scottish independence would be economically bad for Ireland.

In the EU, speaking English etc they could be a direct competitor to Ireland for the FDI we so much rely on.

Other than Irish republicans like the op describes themselves as, who see this as a way to get back at the English by proxy, I don't see why anyone in Ireland should be in favour of the idea.

I do think we'd be fairly in line on most policy though and it makes the EU market bigger and would be a stabilising effect after Brexit. I'd be happy for them to cede and join the EU.

LuckyLloyd

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I say it every time Scottish independence is mentioned here on boards.

Scottish independence would be economically bad for Ireland.

In the EU, speaking English etc they could be a direct competitor to Ireland for the FDI we so much rely on.

Other than Irish republicans like the op describes themselves as, who see this as a way to get back at the English by proxy, I don't see why anyone in Ireland should be in favour of the idea.

We should be in favour of the idea because it’s their right to make their own way if they so choose, and it has been dreadful to watch their interests and desires regarding the EU trampled by English nationalism and the narrow concerns of the Conservative party.

[Deleted User]

People who assume Scotland would be Ireland's friend if independent need only think back to the Rockall drama a few months ago.

That was Edinburgh driving that, not Westminster.

And what about Scotland becoming a member of the EU and the current seamless border between Scotland and England ?

A lot of businesses and farmers etc in Scotland and England would not like to see a border where one has not existed.
Getting that right would take some negotiating.

The irony of people like to OP who are "Irish republicans" is that they want to remove any sort of border on this island but support the erecting of one on the other island.

[Deleted User]

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

We should be in favour of the idea because it’s their right to make their own way if they so choose, and it has been dreadful to watch their interests and desires regarding the EU trampled by English nationalism and the narrow concerns of the Conservative party.

Should we be in support of every separatist movement in Europe, the world ?

LuckyLloyd

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Should we be in support of every separatist movement in Europe, the world ?

We should be in support of a separatist movement we fully understand, can emphasise with, is peaceful and will be based on sound principles of freedom and democracy.

begsbyOnaTrain

derrymcorry wrote: »

They have North Sea oil.

Do they? Well of what's left, there's no guarantee it's "theirs". After all, there's plenty of stirring about the Shetland's leaving an independent Scotland.

I think the Yes to Indy side's projections for oil revenues were off by something crazy.

The Irish romance with the idea of an independent Scotland is very naive. As said, they'd be a direct competitor and there's a nasty anti-Irish strain common enough. I experienced far more prejudice and "incidents" living in leafy areas up there, than I have in my time in England.

jm08

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I say it every time Scottish independence is mentioned here on boards.

Scottish independence would be economically bad for Ireland.

In the EU, speaking English etc they could be a direct competitor to Ireland for the FDI we so much rely on.

Other than Irish republicans like the op describes themselves as, who see this as a way to get back at the English by proxy, I don't see why anyone in Ireland should be in favour of the idea.

How come they are not that competitive on FDI at the moment?

Apart from anything else, Scotland's economy is different to Irelands in that it has oil, gas and heavy industry.

[Deleted User]

jm08 wrote: »

How come they are not that competitive on FDI at the moment?

Apart from anything else, Scotland's economy is different to Irelands in that it has oil, gas and heavy industry.

Because a UK wide corporate tax rate of 19% makes them less attractive than Ireland's 12.5%

I thought that much would be obvious.

An independent Scotland could cut to 12.5% or lower if they saw fit.

bob mcbob

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because a UK wide corporate tax rate of 19% makes them less attractive than Ireland's 12.5%

I thought that much would be obvious.

An independent Scotland could cut to 12.5% or lower if they saw fit.

A couple of points on this -
- If the only thing Ireland has going for it now is the lowest tax rate in town then you should be nervous
- Scotland (thru silicon glen in the 80's) had a bad experience one that the Scottish government is not going to repeat. I read somewhere that now they are more keen on growing indigenous industries / industrial sectors than attracting any company looking for an EU headquarter.

Off topic but on FDI & Ireland (or Dublin in particular) - how much is too much. Reading about what Silicon valley is doing for the original residents of San Fran where the influx of techies is push prices out of reach and killing the culture there. Is this a future you want for Dublin / Dubliners?

[Deleted User]

derrymcorry wrote: »

An independent Scotland and a united Ireland would be best friends within the EU.

England can do whatever it wants. An independent Scotland and Ireland within the EU would lead both countries to thrive.

Scotland is big enough, populous enough and rich enough to be independent.

They have a higher national income per head of population than France, Japan and New Zealand.

They have North Sea oil.

They have scotch:D.

They would do brilliantly as an independent state, just as Ireland would as a reunified state.

Didn't the manifesto you posted propose Ireland leaving the EU?

Jayferg

Food for thought

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/here-s-why-scotland-is-in-sights-of-putin-s-russia-andrew-foxall-and-james-rogers-1-4890453/amp

bob mcbob

Jayferg wrote: »

Food for thought

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/here-s-why-scotland-is-in-sights-of-putin-s-russia-andrew-foxall-and-james-rogers-1-4890453/amp

From these guys -

The Henry Jackson Society is a libertarian British foreign policy think tank. It has been described as right-wing, but positions itself as cross-partisan, with support from some left-leaning politicians.

A couple of points on the article -
- London has started to take Russian interest in Scotland seriously and has adopted a "Fusion Doctrine" to counter hybrid warfare. So that is what Boris, JRM, et al are up to - sorry I did not realise
- SNP wants to join NATO but opposes Trident - this is ironic as these submarines provide NATOs nuclear deterrence in Europe Which other NATO country has it's main nuclear arsenal 30 miles from it's main population centre?

Eric Cartman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because a UK wide corporate tax rate of 19% makes them less attractive than Ireland's 12.5%

I thought that much would be obvious.

An independent Scotland could cut to 12.5% or lower if they saw fit.

considering how the EU feels about our rate, I would only imagine on the very slim chance of them getting back into the EU, that not dropping it below 19% would be the basis of any agreement to let them in to stop precisely that.

A Dub in Glasgo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

People who assume Scotland would be Ireland's friend if independent need only think back to the Rockall drama a few months ago.

That was Edinburgh driving that, not Westminster.

Westminster decided Rockall was part of the UK and allocated it to Scotland with its own exclusion zone around it and fisheries is devolved to Scotland therefore Scotland is implementing Westminster law

A Dub in Glasgo

Jayferg wrote: »

Food for thought

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/here-s-why-scotland-is-in-sights-of-putin-s-russia-andrew-foxall-and-james-rogers-1-4890453/amp

Where is the food and where is the thought?

A Dub in Glasgo

bob mcbob wrote: »

From these guys -

The Henry Jackson Society is a libertarian British foreign policy think tank. It has been described as right-wing, but positions itself as cross-partisan, with support from some left-leaning politicians.

A couple of points on the article -
- London has started to take Russian interest in Scotland seriously and has adopted a "Fusion Doctrine" to counter hybrid warfare. So that is what Boris, JRM, et al are up to - sorry I did not realise
- SNP wants to join NATO but opposes Trident - this is ironic as these submarines provide NATOs nuclear deterrence in Europe Which other NATO country has it's main nuclear arsenal 30 miles from it's main population centre?

The Scottish Government states that the Trident submarines and nuclear weapons belong to rUK and should be stationed there. The UK knows that they do not have any facility for them anywhere else other than Scotland hence the 'colonial' keep

How many NATO members are nuclear armed?

the_syco

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

How many NATO members are nuclear armed?

Three. Five other NATO countries "share" their weapons.

The Golden Miller

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Other than Irish republicans like the op describes themselves as, who see this as a way to get back at the English by proxy

You say this sort of stuff like you're any better. You hide behind being against Scottish independence because it's "bad for Ireland", yet the truth is alot more basic, you have a penchant for all things British/UK.

[Deleted User]

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You say this sort of stuff like you're any better. You hide behind being against Scottish independence because it's "bad for Ireland", yet the truth is alot more basic, you have a penchant for all things British/UK.

I don't hide behind it because it's bad for Ireland, I'm pretty open about saying it's bad for Ireland.

And I lack a penchant for all things British/UK as equally as I lack a penchant for all things Scottish.

I'm pretty ambivalent about Catalan independence, because I don't think it would have the same effect on Ireland as Scottish independence would.

So I'm not hiding behind anything.