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Scottish independence

Faye McAleer

Would you be in support of a politico-economic union and formal international intergovernmental cooperation between the three Gaelic nations, (united) Ireland, (independent) Scotland and the Isle of Man similar to Benelux?

The Benelux cooperation has served as a model for the EU, and is basically an EU lite, comprising a customs union and a parliament as well as shared resources.

This could work between the three Gaelic nations and when we get reunification and the Scottish get independence, I think it is something good that should be created.

What do you think?

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[Deleted User]

Jim2007 wrote: »

You need to open you mind a bit. There is noting stopping Scotland from joining EFTA and accessing the single market via the EEA agreement, the same as Norway. In fact it would probably suit them much better than EU membership.

But the whole resurgence in Scottish independence since the 2014 referendum has been around the idea that they are being dragged out of the EU by the English.

Scotland voted Remain, thus if they were independent they would not be leaving the EU.

If independence is possible without EU membership then it's not as appealing is it ?

TeaBagMania

Not only should Scotland become independent from england but we should unit our clans and become one Celtic nation with Scotland

A Dub in Glasgo

Jim2007 wrote: »

There is no obligation on them to do so, they could just adapt Sterling if they wished. A Scottish central bank and government issuing bonds etc... in Sterling would cause headaches for the BOE, but's life.

Yes and that would be their own currency

Jim2007

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

If Scotland becomes independent it will have to have its own currency (which they can peg to Sterling if they wish).

There is no obligation on them to do so, they could just adapt Sterling if they wished. A Scottish central bank and government issuing bonds etc... in Sterling would cause headaches for the BOE, but's life.

Jim2007

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

With the Catalan situation still unresolved Scotland may be a long way from EU membership so it could be a moot point.

You need to open you mind a bit. There is noting stopping Scotland from joining EFTA and accessing the single market via the EEA agreement, the same as Norway. In fact it would probably suit them much better than EU membership.

Jim2007

derrymcorry wrote: »

A
Do you believe that it would be in the best interests of the Scottish people to become an indpendent country within the EU?

Why do you assume they'd join the EU when EFTA/EEA would better suit their purposes?????

derrymcorry wrote: »

I, as an Irish republican, would be delighted to see an indpendent Scotland as I believe they could be our best friend within the EU now with England gone.

We've got plenty of very good friend in the EU and our diplomats are very good at making use of them. It's seems this is more about you and your interests that what is best for Scotland.

derrymcorry wrote: »

Also, think about the benefits that Scottish independence could have for Irish reunification.

If and it is a very big if, Irish unity will happen in accordance with the GFA provisions as we have signed up to. Noting to do with Scotland.

A Dub in Glasgo

rock22 wrote: »

The SNP, while saying they want to join the EU after an independence vote are also saying they want to retain their own currency etc. They appear to believe they would have the same exceptions the UK won for itself.

If Scotland becomes independent it will have to have its own currency (which they can peg to Sterling if they wish). They have to agree to adopt the Euro if they wish to join the EU but only when they meet the convergence criteria

https://theferret.scot/independent-scotland-join-the-euro/

rock22

The SNP, while saying they want to join the EU after an independence vote are also saying they want to retain their own currency etc. They appear to believe they would have the same exceptions the UK won for itself.

I think the Scottish are unlikely to vote for independence. Independence creates uncertainty and most Scottish people are rathr conservative, especially in matters fiscal.

bob mcbob

Aegir wrote: »

if the SNP want independence, they should get the English to vote on it.

Agreed all you need there is a bus with a catchy slogan on the side.

[Deleted User]

if the SNP want independence, they should get the English to vote on it.

Overheal

US2 wrote: »

This "we voted remain" is nonsense. Should gay marriage still be illegal in rosscomon ?

If they wanted to secede I mean sure, wish them luck

otnomart

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

With the Catalan situation still unresolved Scotland may be a long way from EU membership so it could be a moot point.

The only EU Country that was against Scottish independence was Spain.
That changed after Brexit.
Spain now would not oppose Scotland secessing from another non-EU Country.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-spain-politics-scotland/spain-would-not-oppose-future-independent-scotland-rejoining-eu-minister-idUSKCN1NP26D

I can actually see France being in favour of Scotland gaining independence and joining the EU.
It would mean access to Scottish fishing waters for French fishing vessels.

The Golden Miller

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I don't hide behind it because it's bad for Ireland, I'm pretty open about saying it's bad for Ireland.

And I lack a penchant for all things British/UK as equally as I lack a penchant for all things Scottish.

I'm pretty ambivalent about Catalan independence, because I don't think it would have the same effect on Ireland as Scottish independence would.

So I'm not hiding behind anything.

You generalise about "republicans" on here. You're the flip side of the same predictable coin on any matters relating to Britain

ancapailldorcha

Jayferg wrote: »

Food for thought

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/here-s-why-scotland-is-in-sights-of-putin-s-russia-andrew-foxall-and-james-rogers-1-4890453/amp

Don't dump links here please.

[Deleted User]

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Westminster decided Rockall was part of the UK and allocated it to Scotland with its own exclusion zone around it and fisheries is devolved to Scotland therefore Scotland is implementing Westminster law

Rubbish. The SNP were pandering to the Scottish fishing community in an attempt to prise Shetland away from the Lib Dems.

[Deleted User]

Eric Cartman wrote: »

considering how the EU feels about our rate, I would only imagine on the very slim chance of them getting back into the EU, that not dropping it below 19% would be the basis of any agreement to let them in to stop precisely that.

With the Catalan situation still unresolved Scotland may be a long way from EU membership so it could be a moot point.

With regards to a referendum campaign I can imagine the independence side offering their own versions of sunlit uplands and unicorns that the Leave campaign did for Brexit.

[Deleted User]

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You say this sort of stuff like you're any better. You hide behind being against Scottish independence because it's "bad for Ireland", yet the truth is alot more basic, you have a penchant for all things British/UK.

I don't hide behind it because it's bad for Ireland, I'm pretty open about saying it's bad for Ireland.

And I lack a penchant for all things British/UK as equally as I lack a penchant for all things Scottish.

I'm pretty ambivalent about Catalan independence, because I don't think it would have the same effect on Ireland as Scottish independence would.

So I'm not hiding behind anything.

The Golden Miller

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Other than Irish republicans like the op describes themselves as, who see this as a way to get back at the English by proxy

You say this sort of stuff like you're any better. You hide behind being against Scottish independence because it's "bad for Ireland", yet the truth is alot more basic, you have a penchant for all things British/UK.

the_syco

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

How many NATO members are nuclear armed?

Three. Five other NATO countries "share" their weapons.

A Dub in Glasgo

bob mcbob wrote: »

From these guys -

The Henry Jackson Society is a libertarian British foreign policy think tank. It has been described as right-wing, but positions itself as cross-partisan, with support from some left-leaning politicians.

A couple of points on the article -
- London has started to take Russian interest in Scotland seriously and has adopted a "Fusion Doctrine" to counter hybrid warfare. So that is what Boris, JRM, et al are up to - sorry I did not realise
- SNP wants to join NATO but opposes Trident - this is ironic as these submarines provide NATOs nuclear deterrence in Europe Which other NATO country has it's main nuclear arsenal 30 miles from it's main population centre?

The Scottish Government states that the Trident submarines and nuclear weapons belong to rUK and should be stationed there. The UK knows that they do not have any facility for them anywhere else other than Scotland hence the 'colonial' keep

How many NATO members are nuclear armed?

A Dub in Glasgo

Jayferg wrote: »

Food for thought

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/here-s-why-scotland-is-in-sights-of-putin-s-russia-andrew-foxall-and-james-rogers-1-4890453/amp

Where is the food and where is the thought?

A Dub in Glasgo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

People who assume Scotland would be Ireland's friend if independent need only think back to the Rockall drama a few months ago.

That was Edinburgh driving that, not Westminster.

Westminster decided Rockall was part of the UK and allocated it to Scotland with its own exclusion zone around it and fisheries is devolved to Scotland therefore Scotland is implementing Westminster law

Eric Cartman

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because a UK wide corporate tax rate of 19% makes them less attractive than Ireland's 12.5%

I thought that much would be obvious.

An independent Scotland could cut to 12.5% or lower if they saw fit.

considering how the EU feels about our rate, I would only imagine on the very slim chance of them getting back into the EU, that not dropping it below 19% would be the basis of any agreement to let them in to stop precisely that.

bob mcbob

Jayferg wrote: »

Food for thought

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/here-s-why-scotland-is-in-sights-of-putin-s-russia-andrew-foxall-and-james-rogers-1-4890453/amp

From these guys -

The Henry Jackson Society is a libertarian British foreign policy think tank. It has been described as right-wing, but positions itself as cross-partisan, with support from some left-leaning politicians.

A couple of points on the article -
- London has started to take Russian interest in Scotland seriously and has adopted a "Fusion Doctrine" to counter hybrid warfare. So that is what Boris, JRM, et al are up to - sorry I did not realise
- SNP wants to join NATO but opposes Trident - this is ironic as these submarines provide NATOs nuclear deterrence in Europe Which other NATO country has it's main nuclear arsenal 30 miles from it's main population centre?

Jayferg

Food for thought

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/here-s-why-scotland-is-in-sights-of-putin-s-russia-andrew-foxall-and-james-rogers-1-4890453/amp

[Deleted User]

derrymcorry wrote: »

An independent Scotland and a united Ireland would be best friends within the EU.

England can do whatever it wants. An independent Scotland and Ireland within the EU would lead both countries to thrive.

Scotland is big enough, populous enough and rich enough to be independent.

They have a higher national income per head of population than France, Japan and New Zealand.

They have North Sea oil.

They have scotch:D.

They would do brilliantly as an independent state, just as Ireland would as a reunified state.

Didn't the manifesto you posted propose Ireland leaving the EU?

bob mcbob

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Because a UK wide corporate tax rate of 19% makes them less attractive than Ireland's 12.5%

I thought that much would be obvious.

An independent Scotland could cut to 12.5% or lower if they saw fit.

A couple of points on this -
- If the only thing Ireland has going for it now is the lowest tax rate in town then you should be nervous
- Scotland (thru silicon glen in the 80's) had a bad experience one that the Scottish government is not going to repeat. I read somewhere that now they are more keen on growing indigenous industries / industrial sectors than attracting any company looking for an EU headquarter.

Off topic but on FDI & Ireland (or Dublin in particular) - how much is too much. Reading about what Silicon valley is doing for the original residents of San Fran where the influx of techies is push prices out of reach and killing the culture there. Is this a future you want for Dublin / Dubliners?

[Deleted User]

jm08 wrote: »

How come they are not that competitive on FDI at the moment?

Apart from anything else, Scotland's economy is different to Irelands in that it has oil, gas and heavy industry.

Because a UK wide corporate tax rate of 19% makes them less attractive than Ireland's 12.5%

I thought that much would be obvious.

An independent Scotland could cut to 12.5% or lower if they saw fit.

jm08

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I say it every time Scottish independence is mentioned here on boards.

Scottish independence would be economically bad for Ireland.

In the EU, speaking English etc they could be a direct competitor to Ireland for the FDI we so much rely on.

Other than Irish republicans like the op describes themselves as, who see this as a way to get back at the English by proxy, I don't see why anyone in Ireland should be in favour of the idea.

How come they are not that competitive on FDI at the moment?

Apart from anything else, Scotland's economy is different to Irelands in that it has oil, gas and heavy industry.

begsbyOnaTrain

derrymcorry wrote: »

They have North Sea oil.

Do they? Well of what's left, there's no guarantee it's "theirs". After all, there's plenty of stirring about the Shetland's leaving an independent Scotland.

I think the Yes to Indy side's projections for oil revenues were off by something crazy.

The Irish romance with the idea of an independent Scotland is very naive. As said, they'd be a direct competitor and there's a nasty anti-Irish strain common enough. I experienced far more prejudice and "incidents" living in leafy areas up there, than I have in my time in England.