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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Quin_Dub

This is the eleventh incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread,

Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
Insults directed at popular figures are not acceptable in this forum
Please do not post memes, videos or comedy links here
Please do not be uncivil to other posters
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An Ciarraioch

gooch2k9 wrote: »

The midnight deadline is for him to recommend acceptance at the council this week. Otherwise, he would recommend further talks I suppose.

Indeed, given the legal text is reportedly still being finalised, Thursday week seems a more realistic target.

briany

Just so long as Boris pops in that extension request on time, they can go on negotiating as long as they like.

Sam Russell

briany wrote: »

Just so long as Boris pops in that extension request on time, they can go on negotiating as long as they like.

The Scottish court still has the option to intervene (Nob Off).

Hurrache

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Indeed, given the legal text is reportedly still being finalised

I can't see how it's even started though as apparently the UK only came forward today with their further proposals.

Joe_ Public

It's all a bit surreal really, so there are some new proposals and, possibly, some legal text coming through today, but what realistically can they contain if it's going to lead to an agreed deal? According to the Belgian MEP on newsnight last night (Phillippe Lamberts?), the backstop remains pretty much a red line for the EU. I fully believe that. Short of the UK reverting to a NI only backstop, is there any realistic hope of this leading anywhere? I dont believe so anyway, so we're stuck in some contorted version or other of the blame game, strategies being taken and amended as we speak.

gooch2k9

The BBC reporting they have Tory leaflets for an election stating "without a strong majority we can't deliver Brexit." I suspect Johnson is desperate for a deal soon so it only has to be a short technical extension to get the deal legislation locked down. This is an easier sell than a long procedural(?) one. They also take a shot a Farage in their leaflets so they must be willing, or want to appear willing, to take an extension.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50029635

Water John

In reality it's UK being edged toward a border in the Irish Sea. To misquote Seamus Mallon, Brexit for slow learners.

Tea Shock

I hear the DUP are threatening to sue Merrion Press and Sam McBride over this new book but are unable to answer any questions about what is inaccurate within it.

51eJetGLU9L._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

The relevance being, if this is also going to get dirty, and a Stormont Vote is necessary to approve of new border controls, it probably won't happen if all this stuff is getting dragged up again

54and56

Water John wrote: »

DUP hard line voters have nowhere harder to go.

This is exactly how splinter groups are formed. How many unionist parties are there in a region with a hypothetical "unionist" population of just 500,000 or so?

- Democratic Unionist Party
- Ulster Unionist Party
- Progressive Unionist Party
- Traditional Unionist Voice

The barriers to starting a new "X Unionist Party" are not very high!

Jamiekelly

Sam McBride's new book is now #1 best seller in the "History of Europe" and the "Government and Politics" section of Amazon. Classic Streisand effect. It seems to be a running theme with the DUP. Didn't Ian Paisley Jr also threaten to sue a journalist over the revealing of his Sri Lanka trips? Hardly politically astute are the DUP. If they didn't have hardline Unionism to fall back on they would have went the way of the Social Democrats here.

trellheim

Hardly politically astute are the DUP. If they didn't have hardline Unionism to fall back on they would have went the way of the Social Democrats here.

The current approach as I never tire of pointing out, without the Assembly up and running (within the DUP's grant) , abortion and gay marriage arrives in NI 21st October.

ancapailldorcha

I spend my free time moderating a Politics forum as a volunteer so I think that it's fair to say that I'm more politically engaged than most as would anyone posting in a thread like this. I'd no idea that this book existed and now that the DUP have threatened legal action I want to read it.

Duane Dibbley

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I spend my free time moderating a Politics forum as a volunteer so I think that it's fair to say that I'm more politically engaged than most as would anyone posting in a thread like this. I'd no idea that this book existed and now that the DUP have threatened legal action I want to read it.

Im waiting for the Audiobook release. I know im lazy.

VinLieger

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I spend my free time moderating a Politics forum as a volunteer so I think that it's fair to say that I'm more politically engaged than most as would anyone posting in a thread like this. I'd no idea that this book existed and now that the DUP have threatened legal action I want to read it.

The streisand effect is a beautiful thing to behold, and its still hilarious to see how so many people fall afoul of it

ZeroThreat

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

Im waiting for the Audiobook release. I know im lazy.

There doesn't seem to be a kindle version available.

dePeatrick

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

Im waiting for the Audiobook release. I know im lazy.

Id say the DUP have been reading it avidly as they delete thousands of tweets...they are running scared! There will be one scandal after another now and it will get lots of coverage in the media here and the UK.

ZeroThreat

VinLieger wrote: »

The streisand effect is a beautiful thing to behold, and its still hilarious to see how so many people fall afoul of it

From what I've seen, there seems to be an ingrained urge in the DUP to always react in a way to makes things worse or makes more certain that what they wish to avoid actually occurs :rolleyes:

Their political instincts just always seem to be wrong.

Duane Dibbley

ZeroThreat wrote: »

From what I've seen, there seems to be an ingrained instinct in the DUP to always react in a way to makes things worse or makes more certain that what they wish to avoid actually occurs :rolleyes:

Their political instincts just always seem to be wrong.

They just seem angry all the time.

J Mysterio

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

They just seem angry all the time.

No, no no!

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

Im waiting for the Audiobook release. I know im lazy.

I'd say to read it would be bad enough, but an audiobook? no, no, no.

dePeatrick

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

They just seem angry all the time.

Well when you have been sent to a foreign land given land and property with unicorns included and the natives start to rebel and look for equal rights...what can you do? Bomb and shoot them in the ancient British tradition.

Unfortunately many centuries had moved on without them noticing and civil rights had emerged, then the US gets involved, seems everyone in the world apart from the KKK and apartheid SA wants you to stop fighting and the GFA sees to that.

Then a chance and they hold the balance of power in the mother of all parliaments and now they watch that being eroded. Of course they are angry, very angry. Now it feels like the UK no longer wants them, the whole world is against them....s'not fair...bohoooo...books on Ash for Cash and more scandals to follow...

Kermit.de.frog

https://twitter.com/JimAllister/status/1184108219565690880

From the Guardian

The EU has rejected the UK’s proposal of a dual system at Northern Ireland’s ports and airport that would involve tracking goods entering from Great Britain and applying differential treatment depending on their final destination.

Barnier has instead pushed the UK to accept a model closer to a Northern Ireland-only backstop. Under one proposal under discussion, Northern Ireland would not be part of the EU’s customs territory, but the bloc’s full customs code would have to be enforced in the Irish Sea. “Northern Ireland would de jure be in the UK’s customs territory but de facto in the European union’s”, said an EU source.

Joe_ Public

Bottom line here is, there is no real half-way house between the UK rejected proposals and the NI only backstop the EU is pushing for. There is no great fudge they can come up with that has a landing zone somewhere in the middle. Either the UK moves to the EU position or there'll be no agreement. The quicker they resolve whether that will happen, the better for everybody imo.

An Ciarraioch

Katya Adler seems to have become more of a realist in recent weeks:

https://twitter.com/BBCkatyaadler/status/1184113045787807744

Varta

Is the UK's famous dirty tricks department going after the DUP? It would seem like it. I'd say Cummings has a dossier on their activities higher that Big Ben.

Tea Shock

Bloomberg seem to think progress has been made today:

"EU, U.K. Negotiators Said to Be Closing In on Draft Brexit Deal"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-15/eu-u-k-negotiators-said-to-be-closing-in-on-draft-brexit-deal-k1ry6cvj?cmpid%3D=socialflow-facebook-brexit&utm_content=brexit&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social

Still not convinced that any deal will get thru HoC

An Ciarraioch

Bloomberg (who have been wrong many times before, it must be noted) claim a deal could be agreed today:

https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1184115779513569280

Duane Dibbley

With all the shit that has happened over the past few years with Brexit, I wonder what the EU genuine opinion would be if the UK planned to revoke Article 50.

Would the really want to keep the UK within the EU giving them a voice.

Strazdas

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Bloomberg (who have been wrong many times before, it must be noted) claim a deal could be agreed today:

https://twitter.com/Brexit/status/1184115779513569280

Is there anything new in this? It seems highly speculative and doesn't seem to reflect anything the other Brussels correspondents were saying today.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: No more jokes and one-liners please.

Akabusi

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

With all the shit that has happened over the past few years with Brexit, I wonder what the EU genuine opinion would be if the UK planned to revoke Article 50.

Would the really want to keep the UK within the EU giving them a voice.

Yes, even if they are not fully on-board the EU is stronger with them in. You would hope that at some stage the likes of Farrage would stop being elected to Europe and they get serious politicians who are focused on bettering the EU as a whole.