HappyAsLarE wrote: » I believe God is misunderstood. I believe in a God that is defined as the collective consciousness of all of mankind. That He is an archetype concept created to metaphorically explain our Being. Tell me one civil society that is not grounded in a belief in God. The concept was naturally selected as one that works, at least up until now.
AndrewJRenko wrote: » How is this possible? The omnipotent God explicitly chose to create humans that experience pain and suffering, and conditions like cancer just for kicks?
Len_007 wrote: » How is it impossible? If this omnipotent God that we both have assumed was one who created humans so that they would suffer, then the conditions you highlighted would be quite inline with this God's intentions for the world. That I think describes the God you are talking about. However the God as revealed in the OT/NT, clearly did not create humans to experience pain and suffering. That was not his primary purpose as you read Genesis 1 & 2. (There's probably an argument to be made that pain and suffering was always part of the design, not all of it is bad, as in ouch I'm too near fire). The primary purpose of the creation of Man was to live with God in his presence, which they forfeited when they rejected his Word and Rule over them. When that happened sin entered the world wrecking all in it's path, the devastation of which is still experienced today. But, the God of the OT/NT is on record endeavouring to reverse the great rupture that happened in the first pages of the Bible, as I said above flick to the end to see hot it all pans out.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » Not seeing why kids get cancer.
Len_007 wrote: » Or even anyone getting cancer right? Or worse, dying from it. Theologically, Death was a projected outcome if mankind chose to rebel against their Creator, which they did. So why is there death in the world? The bible's answer is because it's a consequence of turning away from man's creator.
Marhay70 wrote: » The children of whom Jesus spoke were, surely, guilty of original sin so the comparison does not stand up. Also, absolution from original sin by baptism is only observed by Christianity so that would presumably exclude approximately 70% of the world's children.
Guy:Incognito wrote: » Suppose Thats one way out of the "why did you kill those kids in a horrible way and make them suffer" discussion. Its bull**** of course.... What about unbaptised kids? Straight to the mass grave with them? I take it the parents grief at having their child die and dealing with the pain of a drawn out death at that is somehow beneficial them too? Thats pretty much the church all over. Presumably its the Christian god thats murdering children of other faiths too? They probably deserve it though for worshiping false gods?
Len_007 wrote: » AndrewJRenko wrote: » How is this possible? The omnipotent God explicitly chose to create humans that experience pain and suffering, and conditions like cancer just for kicks? How is it impossible? If this omnipotent God that we both have assumed was one who created humans so that they would suffer, then the conditions you highlighted would be quite inline with this God's intentions for the world. That I think describes the God you are talking about. However the God as revealed in the OT/NT, clearly did not create humans to experience pain and suffering. That was not his primary purpose as you read Genesis 1 & 2. (There's probably an argument to be made that pain and suffering was always part of the design, not all of it is bad, as in ouch I'm too near fire). The primary purpose of the creation of Man was to live with God in his presence, which they forfeited when they rejected his Word and Rule over them. When that happened sin entered the world wrecking all in it's path, the devastation of which is still experienced today. But, the God of the OT/NT is on record endeavouring to reverse the great rupture that happened in the first pages of the Bible, as I said above flick to the end to see how it all pans out.
blinding wrote: » Maybe we are just a giant enormous computer !
pearcider wrote: » You sound very angry by the way.
Len_007 wrote: » Professor Moriarty wrote: » Not seeing why kids get cancer. Or even anyone getting cancer right? Or worse, dying from it. Theologically, Death was a projected outcome if mankind chose to rebel against their Creator, which they did. So why is there death in the world? The bible's answer is because it's a consequence of turning away from man's creator.
twowheelsonly wrote: » I'm always fascinated by remote tribes etc who all worship their own gods despite any outside influence. That convinces me in a way that there is 'something' !!
pearcider wrote: » AndrewJRenko wrote: » How is this possible? The omnipotent God explicitly chose to create humans that experience pain and suffering, and conditions like cancer just for kicks? You’re presuming a lot there pal. Clearly existence is preferable to nothing. The world is evidently beautiful despite what you believe. You’re also very angry and that comes across strongly in your posts. Jesus taught us that wrath is the work of the devil.
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Before we get to the possible /impossible thing, could we maybe focus on the 'why'? Are you suggesting that the five people in my circle of family and friends who endured months or years of painful existence that caused great distress to their families got cancer because of some kind of revenge attack by god on the actions of some people about 10,000 years ago?
Professor Moriarty wrote: » How can a two year old rebel against their "creator"?
AndrewJRenko wrote: » So maybe you'd like to explain the whole cancer thing for me?
pearcider wrote: » You’re presuming a lot there pal. Clearly existence is preferable to nothing. The world is evidently beautiful despite what you believe. You’re also very angry and that comes across strongly in your posts. Jesus taught us that wrath is the work of the devil.
Len_007 wrote: » Spend time with a two year old and you'll soon see. More seriously, more able men throughout History have discussed the nature of Inherited Sin than I. (May I recommend Bavinck for something classical, or Grudem for a contemporary, most Systematics have decent treaty's on the this issue.)
pearcider wrote: » AndrewJRenko wrote: » Before we get to the possible /impossible thing, could we maybe focus on the 'why'? Are you suggesting that the five people in my circle of family and friends who endured months or years of painful existence that caused great distress to their families got cancer because of some kind of revenge attack by god on the actions of some people about 10,000 years ago? Everybody dies: Life is but a fleeting gift. You seem to believe we are owed eternal life. Is it so hard to believe that your loved ones have passed on to another place...as many have before them.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » Does the Koran Torah Bible say much about irony?
Guy:Incognito wrote: » If there was a god , surely every group would have come to worship the same god?
twowheelsonly wrote: » That's basically my point !!! Practically every group does worship a God, some without ever being in contact with any other group (and more-so in ancient times) so therefore it would have to be regarded as an in-built intuition. What you're referring to is organised religion, each of whom name their own Gods, but they all still amount to worshipping a superior being, whether that be in a jungle in the Amazon, St Michaels Church in Tipperary town, or the Blue Mosque in Istanbul. For all we know it is the same God that we all worship - we just call him different things.
pearcider wrote: » Your arrogance is unreal.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » You can recommend away.
Professor Moriarty wrote: » While you're at it, explain why one small child can 'inherit sin' and another doesn't?
