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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Quin_Dub

This is the eleventh incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread,

Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
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Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

A Brexit budget seems like the right strategy. No tax cuts, but no real big spending increases either. Keep the ship steady for a year.

Akabusi

Hurrache wrote: »

I saw someone put this in their timeline and I thought it was just your usual Brexit moron, but yeah, double down on the Merkel photoshop from earlier.

https://twitter.com/andywigmore/status/1181503641779355650

I went in and looked at some of his tweets - everyone is correct who says they are beyond saving, the bile and lies being spouted is staggering. I did wonder deep down do they occasionally reflect to themselves that what they are being fed is propaganda and maybe they would hear both sides and reach a decision based on fact and common sense but no chance.

[Deleted User]

Igotadose wrote: »

Whoever's unhappy that their flight's aren't leaving, their cattle all slaughtered, no more cheap vacations to the Continent, and having to wait for their pharmecuticals. Plus those recently unemployed trying to get by on their saved, rapidly devaluing, pounds.

I'm just back from holidays and it dawned on me some of the things the UK are about to lose overnight - EU roaming charges, and the EU Regulation 261/2004 which entitles airline passengers who have been delayed for more than 3 hours to compensation of up to €600.

These are small potatoes compared to your list above and not enough alone to get people rioting on the streets, but the average person in the UK has no idea of all the things they are about to lose with a no deal Brexit which they currently take for granted.

dePeatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm just back from holidays and it dawned on me some of the things the UK are about to lose overnight - EU roaming charges, and the EU Regulation 261/2004 which entitles airline passengers who have been delayed for more than 3 hours to compensation of up to €600.

These are small potatoes compared to your list above and not enough alone to get people rioting on the streets, but the average person in the UK has no idea of all the things they are about to lose with a no deal Brexit which they currently take for granted.

That is a very long list and takes time to put into legislation which in a no deal parliament that would have more than enough on its hands. It would take a decade for the UK to get itself sorted that is if there is not complete economic collapse, it could happen!

Shelga

One thing that really bothers me, and I never see them challenged on, is the sheer amount of Tory ministers who come out and say “What businesses want is certainty- the current state cannot continue. We need to get Brexit done on October the 31st”.

I am fairly certain that the vast majority of businesses in the UK would prefer uncertainty whilst in the EU, to the certainty that they are completely ****ed once they crash out with no deal.

Leroy42

Because most people, it appears, equate No Deal with simply leaving on the UK terms. So everything stays the same except the EU can't tell them what to do.

And this where journalists and opposition MPs are falling down. Instead of deep questions, simple questions like 'what are the laws on roaming charges on 1st Nov?'

What happens to GB pensioners on 1st Nov?

What plans are in place to deal with a falling pound?
If you are abroad, are you covered for EU medical on 1st?
What happens to GDPR?
Is dury free available from 1st Nov?

A series of questions like these to highlight the real impact on peoples lives.

Shelga

Exactly. That slimy charlatan Gove in parliament again today, whingeing about the need to “move on”.

A no deal Brexit will mean this fiasco is front and centre of UK news, every single day, for the next decade. Again, never challenged on this. Infuriating.

Does Johnson’s cabinet actually believe the drivel they come out with? I really struggle to understand what their motivations are, they’re not all that stupid?

An Ciarraioch

The Independent's Tom Pack sums up today's events perfectly:

https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1181564834145607681

ToBeFrank123

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm just back from holidays and it dawned on me some of the things the UK are about to lose overnight - EU roaming charges, and the EU Regulation 261/2004 which entitles airline passengers who have been delayed for more than 3 hours to compensation of up to €600.

These are small potatoes compared to your list above and not enough alone to get people rioting on the streets, but the average person in the UK has no idea of all the things they are about to lose with a no deal Brexit which they currently take for granted.

Very true. And if roaming charges are brought back, the converse may also apply, ie EU citizens going to the UK having to pay roaming charges. And possibly people who cross the border into the North.

Hopefully common sense will prevail and roaming charges won't be applied in the common travel area between Ireland and UK.

trellheim

I should note that Andy Wigmore , Arron Banks ( Leave.EU) and Steve Baker (ERG) have fairly consistently been headbangers for hard Brexit.

That they are taking the positions they are is not new - they've been like that for years.

Whats conspicuous here is they are doing publicity - they've been muzzled for the last few months since Boris got in. Interesting to see if it splits now into hardball from the individuals or if Boris can keep it together.

The various referendum biographies are clear that they didnt really work together

Stop moaning ffs

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Very true. And if roaming charges are brought back, the converse may also apply, ie EU citizens going to the UK having to pay roaming charges. And possibly people who cross the border into the North.

Hopefully common sense will prevail and roaming charges won't be applied in the common travel area between Ireland and UK.

To be fair. Roaming charges are the very very least of U.K. citizens problems right now.

ToBeFrank123

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

To be fair. Roaming charges are the very very least of U.K. citizens problems right now.

I'm not bothered about UK problems.

I'd be more bothered about Irish people going to the UK having to pay roaming charges and worse people who live south of the border having to pay them if they go north for the day or work north of the border.

But as I said hopefully common sense prevails. Its in no-ones interest to reintroduce roaming charges.

Stop moaning ffs

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I'm not bothered about UK problems.

I'd be more bothered about Irish people going to the UK having to pay roaming charges and worse people who live south of the border having to pay them if they go north for the day or work north of the border.

But as I said hopefully common sense prevails. Its in no-ones interest to reintroduce roaming charges.

Well have have the same companies and networks. Far as I know Three have yet to make a profit sine they started up In Ireland. Could see them taking advantage of that

I just got a text from three the other day that roaming data will be increased at no charge under Eu directive.

murphaph

The re-imposition of roaming charges in NI for RoI residents or vice versa would have a fairly negative impact on the all island economy, even though the GFA itself predates the abolition of roaming charges by many years.

Kermit.de.frog

Coveney speaking today

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1181588905025425408

ToBeFrank123

Leroy42 wrote: »

Because most people, it appears, equate No Deal with simply leaving on the UK terms. So everything stays the same except the EU can't tell them what to do.

And this where journalists and opposition MPs are falling down. Instead of deep questions, simple questions like 'what are the laws on roaming charges on 1st Nov?'

What happens to GB pensioners on 1st Nov?

What plans are in place to deal with a falling pound?
If you are abroad, are you covered for EU medical on 1st?
What happens to GDPR?
Is dury free available from 1st Nov?

A series of questions like these to highlight the real impact on peoples lives.

Very likely in the event of No Deal, there will be a large number of mini deals to cover reciprocal arrangements such as roaming charges, air travel, pensioners rights, social welfare, Medical care, ex pat rights rights and so on.

We've already seen some of these mini deals between the UK and Ireland such as recognition of divorce. That is one example. There will be more. UK Companies exporting to the EU will have to comply with EU regulations. So you could see UK companies dealing with different regulations for home and export markets.

ancapailldorcha

Leroy42 wrote: »

Because most people, it appears, equate No Deal with simply leaving on the UK terms. So everything stays the same except the EU can't tell them what to do.

And this where journalists and opposition MPs are falling down. Instead of deep questions, simple questions like 'what are the laws on roaming charges on 1st Nov?'

I think it’s a subtle and pernicious shift in rhetoric. Notice how Brexiters stopped talking up the benefits of Brexit. No deal is much the same in that it’s been presented now as the only Brexit. The pretence of getting a deal is just that, a pretence.

Leroy42 wrote: »

What happens to GB pensioners on 1st Nov?

I’ve tried, I mean really, really tried not to let myself fall into the traps of getting apathetic or wishing misfortune on people who voted to leave or the generally placid British public in general but Britain’s pensioners are the one group I honestly can’t bring myself to give a sh*t about. They voted for this mess and if they’d voted the other way then it would have been averted. They are supposed to be the wisest of us and they are the one demographic who will actually be bothered to vote hence their privileged positions vis-á-vis pensions, heating allowances, public transport, TV licences, etc…

Leroy42 wrote: »

What plans are in place to deal with a falling pound?
If you are abroad, are you covered for EU medical on 1st?
What happens to GDPR?
Is dury free available from 1st Nov?

A series of questions like these to highlight the real impact on people’s lives.

All of these questions, save GDPR were valid before the referendum with GDPR being too recent.

The thing is, the only people concerned with details of any nature were the people who voted Remain, even those who did so grudgingly. Leave was and still needs to be vague or else the foundation for the fragile Brexit coalition will be exposed for the lie that it is. The second Brexit is define, as in say Theresa May’s deal then it falls apart and we see the extremists turn on each other with alacrity.

Water John

If there is a Crash Out Brexit, they have been told, no mini deals.
When the UK get back to negotiations afterwards, the first item on the agenda is, money owed.

J Mysterio

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Coveney speaking today

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1181588905025425408

Look at the bloody comments underneath.
Makes my blood boil.

careless sherpa

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

Very true. And if roaming charges are brought back, the converse may also apply, ie EU citizens going to the UK having to pay roaming charges. And possibly people who cross the border into the North.

Hopefully common sense will prevail and roaming charges won't be applied in the common travel area between Ireland and UK.

In a lot of areas you don't need to cross the border to be on the UK network. Oftentimes in people's own homes. Back to this nonsense

lawred2

J Mysterio wrote: »

Look at the bloody comments underneath.
Makes my blood boil.

just don't - you know what to expect

ToBeFrank123

Water John wrote: »

If there is a Crash Out Brexit, they have been told, no mini deals.
When the UK get back to negotiations afterwards, the first item on the agenda is, money owed.

There will be a need for mini deals.

What happens if an EU citizen visits the UK and gets injured? And vice versa. There will have to be deals done like that.
Also roaming charges.
Deals done in the financial area to allow EU banks operate in the UK and vice versa.

It would be great to think the EU would just pull out entirely of the UK including all private EU companies. In reality that would be difficult to do.

prawnsambo

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'm no fan of that, either. They really should be above this. Corbyn has committed to a second referendum with Remain so that will placate a lot of liberal centrist voters. If this falls apart because of her intransigence then it'll be the tuition fees fiasco all over again.

The last I heard on this GNU idea was that Labour (according to John McDonnell iirc) wanted a minority government propped up by the LibDems/SNP/everyone else. Don't see how that's going to fly tbh.

But this idea of a GNU is a bit irrelevant imo. What would be the point? The opposition have Boris on the ropes, he ca do nothing unless they say so, so they can continue to pull his strings until they're ready for an election.

Kermit.de.frog

lawred2 wrote: »

just don't - you know what to expect

A lot of "responses" appear to be by bots (no bio, avatar, less than 20 posts). Some are not and are just racists, sectarian, right wing....

You genuinely would be amazed how the Russian troll factories infiltrate every global debate of note to destabilise on social media.

ToBeFrank123

careless sherpa wrote: »

In a lot of areas you don't need to cross the border to be on the UK network. Oftentimes in people's own homes. Back to this nonsense

Hopefully not. Its in no-ones interests, not the UKs and not the EUs.

54and56

Akabusi wrote: »

How soon before we see a poster of Leo dressed as a Leprechaun or some vile reference to potatoes?

The Scum or Daily Express should predicibly oblige tomorrow morning.

CrabRevolution

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

There will be a need for mini deals.

What happens if an EU citizen visits the UK and gets injured? And vice versa. There will have to be deals done like that.
Also roaming charges.
Deals done in the financial area to allow EU banks operate in the UK and vice versa.

It would be great to think the EU would just pull out entirely of the UK including all private EU companies. In reality that would be difficult to do.

So you're saying we will give the UK everything they want at no cost?

dePeatrick

careless sherpa wrote: »

In a lot of areas you don't need to cross the border to be on the UK network. Oftentimes in people's own homes. Back to this nonsense

This is quite true, phone will connect to nearest mast and that may be on either side of border. Got fleeced for roaming charges working near border some years ago.

ToBeFrank123

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

A lot of "responses" appear to be by bots (no bio, avatar, less than 20 posts). Some are not and are just racists, sectarian, right wing....

You genuinely would be amazed how the Russian troll factories infiltrate every global debate of note to destabilise on social media.

The US use 4 billion a pop aircraft carriers to project power and influence regimes and public opinions around the world.

The Russians use a few hundred people working in a troll factory to achieve something not far off that.

Their influence in the US election was significant in convincing people Hillary was a crook. The bots were able to organise public protests in the US from a troll factory in Russia.

The comments and voting sections of UK newspaper websites is where they are most prevalent.

54and56

Hurrache wrote: »

I saw someone put this in their timeline and I thought it was just your usual Brexit moron, but yeah, double down on the Merkel photoshop from earlier.

https://twitter.com/andywigmore/status/1181503641779355650

He's the Comms Director fur leave.eu, nuff said.