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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Quin_Dub

This is the eleventh incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread,

Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
Insults directed at popular figures are not acceptable in this forum
Please do not post memes, videos or comedy links here
Please do not be uncivil to other posters
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Igotadose

Mefistofelino wrote: »

The irony is that both Brexit and WW2 required massive Russian assistance

But, via Russia and Arron Banks, aren't Russia pushing them around? :pac:

And of course, the US had a little bit to do with winning WWI and WW2.

KildareP

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Almost as appalling is the opposition have the numbers to take down this excuse for a government but will not agree amongst themselves

That's why - hard and all as it is to say - I'm coming to the conclusion the only option is to say "Feck them" and just let them off with their No Deal Brexit.

They are as complicit in this mess as the Leave side.

There is nothing - literally nothing - that anyone outside the UK can actually do at this stage to help build any sort of path to a deal.

Time to cut loose, take the hit and move on with our lives whilst the UK squabbles amongst themselves.

Akabusi

New lows reached with the UK now. One last desperate strategy in play now - bully, threaten, and insult in order to get kicked out now. The normal British public need to get on the streets in the millions - Hong Kong or Extinction Rebellion style to force this UK Gov back from the abyss

Stop moaning ffs

Is parliament still being prorogued today?

Mr.Wemmick

lawred2 wrote: »

I think this is the last desperate roll of the dice from Cummings...

They've lost control in Parliament and they've lost control in the courts. This is desperation. Pure and utter desperation. Parliament can move now to bury these people and this 'movement'.

It might want to do so before it's too late.

Exactly this. I am in the UK and everyone I know, speak to, think the same: we have been shafted by the Tory party. 10 years of austerity is killing everyone and Brexit and the reckless blame game can no longer hide this truth.

John Bercow has a huge following for being the voice of reason. The loonies will cry and bawl. Let them.

trellheim

yes the quick PR from the DUP and Vote Leave means this may be part of a chess game ( planned outrage to see if the EU will give in a little)

farmchoice

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Almost as appalling is the opposition have the numbers to take down this excuse for a government but will not agree amongst themselves

johnson and cummings are desperate for an election every thing they do is a combination of goading the opposition in to giving them one and neutralizing the BP in that coming election by out brexiting them.
to stop a disastrous brexit outcome the opposition have to hold their nerve and force Johnson into requesting the extension, its no good if they end up doing it it ha to be johnsons government, this will lead to the BP taking votes off the tories and in turn negating their chances of getting any sort of majority.

the only thing Johnson has to fear is farage and the BP getting 13-15% of the vote, they will probably get no seats but they will deny him his majority.

Infini

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Almost as appalling is the opposition have the numbers to take down this excuse for a government but will not agree amongst themselves

The thing is at this point the opposition have every reason now to hit the nuclear option and force an A50 withdrawal based purely on the removal of this corrosive government. The only question is will they do it before they ultimately go off the cliff.

As for that bellended leaveuk ad they forgot that they might have been on the winning side but WW2 BROKE THEM as an empire. Then again human stupidy = cancer of existence.

Professor Moriarty

That picture of Merkel is a disgrace. Even portraying her as if it was a Nazi salute. Britain is beginning to disgust me.

J Mysterio

Akabusi wrote: »

New lows reached with the UK now. One last desperate strategy in play now - bully, threaten, and insult in order to get kicked out now. The normal British public need to get on the streets in the millions - Hong Kong or Extinction Rebellion style to force this UK Gov back from the abyss

While I agree, guess who else will be out in their millions?

Kermit.de.frog

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That picture of Merkel is a disgrace. Even portraying her as if it was a Nazi salute. Britain is beginning to disgust me.

Can Twitter ban Leave.eu account over that?

A lot of complaints judging by the replies.

quokula

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Is parliament still being prorogued today?

Yes, I'd say that's no small part of the reason all this has started coming out today, when it's no longer possible for parliament to scrutinise or have a VONC.

trellheim

And Steve Bakers started tweeting again https://twitter.com/LeaveEUOfficial/status/1181541185313234944 which means the brakes are coming off

trellheim

Anyone know if an SO24 debate can happen between now and end of business to override the prorogue

Cork Boy 53

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That picture of Merkel is a disgrace. Even portraying her as if it was a Nazi salute. Britain is beginning to disgust me.

Yes. They might as well have gone the full hog while they were at it and photoshopped a Hitler moustache on to her face. Though I suppose that would have been going too far even by their standards.

CelticRambler

farmchoice wrote: »

johnson and cummings are desperate for an election ...

That much is pretty obvious now, and it's beginning to look like they've overplayed their hand. The EU know that this government is more interested in electioneering than negotiating; and the varied HoC opposition knows that the Tories are focusing their efforts entirely towards the Brexit Party. For both the EU and the Rebel Alliance, it's now a question of timing, and the longer they can postpone an election, the worse it will be for the Tories: they'll have peaked too soon, and vague threats/promises will have been proven to be hollow.

Perhaps we're looking at this all wrong? Maybe the EU has already game-planned the JohnsonCummings strategy and are, in fact, three moves ahead - quietly talking to the Rebel Alliance off the record, coordinating their own leaks and official responses, trolling the Brexiters to get them riled up and blurt out all kinds of nonsense. They'll let things run for another week or ten days, maybe even a fortnight, then the Rebel Alliance will oust Johnson, form a GNU (under the leadership of someone already agreed upon - the Corbyn hypothesis being deliberate misdirection) and steer the country towards a referendum. A six-month extension and no GE till sometime next year would destroy Johnson's credibility and effectively castrate Cummings (and the DUP). It could all be a Cunning Plan (done right!) :pac:

dePeatrick

lawred2 wrote: »

She never actually said "we will crush the EU" did she?

How did I miss that?

Oh yes she did.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/may-to-eu-give-us-fair-deal-or-youll-be-crushed-07m2p8bfd

Sorry That's behind a paywall, her words were we will crush th EU, great way to start negotiations eh? May was the one crushed and crying at the end of that episode.

lawred2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

That picture of Merkel is a disgrace. Even portraying her as if it was a Nazi salute. Britain is beginning to disgust me.

Beginning?

prawnsambo

CelticRambler wrote: »

That much is pretty obvious now, and it's beginning to look like they've overplayed their hand. The EU know that this government is more interested in electioneering than negotiating; and the varied HoC opposition knows that the Tories are focusing their efforts entirely towards the Brexit Party. For both the EU and the Rebel Alliance, it's now a question of timing, and the longer they can postpone an election, the worse it will be for the Tories: they'll have peaked too soon, and vague threats/promises will have been proven to be hollow.

Perhaps we're looking at this all wrong? Maybe the EU has already game-planned the JohnsonCummings strategy and are, in fact, three moves ahead - quietly talking to the Rebel Alliance off the record, coordinating their own leaks and official responses, trolling the Brexiters to get them riled up and blurt out all kinds of nonsense. They'll let things run for another week or ten days, maybe even a fortnight, then the Rebel Alliance will oust Johnson, form a GNU (under the leadership of someone already agreed upon - the Corbyn hypothesis being deliberate misdirection) and steer the country towards a referendum. A six-month extension and no GE till sometime next year would destroy Johnson's credibility and effectively castrate Cummings (and the DUP). It could all be a Cunning Plan (done right!) :pac:

Unfortunately, I don't share your faith in the opposition being any more competent than the government. It's possible I suppose, but there's not much indication that any such pragmatism exists in that quarter.

Akabusi

J Mysterio wrote: »

While I agree, guess who else will be out in their millions?

I honestly think there is only a very small but loud/angry minority that would support what this Gov is doing. Even the vast majority of people who voted leave and when they seen the impact of what that decision means would have wanted one of remaining in the single market/customs union then failing that the WA.

There were protests and marches a while back in London, what happened to them?

Beechwoodspark

On that leave Eu poster alone dom Cummings should be fcuked out on his ear from downing st. With a police escort.

GM228

In other news today's hearing in the nob off case has concluded with a (potential) judgement tomorrow, it's interesting to note Lord President Carloway has hinted at postponing the judgement (in relation to potential nob off orders) until after the 19th to see if Johnson actually sends the letter, will know more tomorrow.

Professor Moriarty

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Can Twitter ban Leave.eu account over that?

A lot of complaints judging by the replies.

It's wrong on so many levels.

Professor Moriarty

lawred2 wrote: »

Beginning?

I try to hold on to my experience of most English people, and some friends, which is positive. But the more this stuff goes unchallenged by ordinary people, or is even endorsed, the more my respect fades. Expect pictures of leprechauns next. Seriously.

robinph

GM228 wrote: »

In other news today's hearing in the nob off case has concluded with a (potential) judgement tomorrow, it's interesting to note Lord President Carloway has hinted at postponing the judgement (in relation to potential nob off orders) until after the 19th to see if Johnson actually sends the letter, will know more tomorrow.

Really hope they do delay announcing any judgement, either way. If they say the court will send the letter then Johnson is off the hook, if they say they won't then it really makes no difference.

After the 19th the opposition just install themselves as PM and send the letter if needed.

dePeatrick

trellheim wrote: »

Oh dear

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EGWuWYXU4AAzUmU.png:large

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1181542541583273985

walk that back then

Merkel still looks dignified and honourable. I have always felt that she emanates an intillegence and warmth rare in politicians if her rank. Johnson on the other hand....

devnull

The Brexiteers have no clue what they are on about, that article from this morning is misguided on so many levels, especially the bit about putting countries who block an extension at the front of the queue and the ones who vote for it at the back.

Do they not realise that the European Union is a Union of countries, you do business with the EU as a whole and not with each country so what they are claiming is not even possible anyway.

Doubt the Brexiteers realise that though.

Enzokk

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Almost as appalling is the opposition have the numbers to take down this excuse for a government but will not agree amongst themselves

To try and stop Johnson from getting a majority and potentially going no-deal with parliament support, the opposition has to get him to request the extension himself or defy the law. Doing it for him will just give him more ammunition. I think the opposition shares a lot of blame for some of the problems, but this isn't one of them for me. The endgame for Brexit is with a new government and giving Johnson what he wants jeopardizes it, no matter how frustrating it is for us.

GM228 wrote: »

In other news today's hearing in the nob off case has concluded with a (potential) judgement tomorrow, it's interesting to note Lord President Carloway has hinted at postponing the judgement (in relation to potential nob off orders) until after the 19th to see if Johnson actually sends the letter, will know more tomorrow.

Makes sense, why would you rule on a hypothetical when it is less than 2 weeks to see if it is even needed.

As for Laura Kuennsberg, her reporting style isn't really to take a position but to present the 2 points of view and play them off each other. So she will rely on her sources within No.10 to give their side and she will contrast it with the response from the other side. So No.10 said X,Y and Z and the EU has said A,B and C. Or she will report that the EU stance is no new negotiations, yet there are rumblings of discontent from within the EU.

She isn't wrong or shown any bias, but it is also somehow not the true reflection of the state of play. I can see why the Government and the bosses at BBC will like her, but in times like these it is not enough.

Where she has jumped the shark is having that documentary about her reporting of Brexit and seeing her communicate with especially Johnson. That looks wrong to me for a Political Editor to be that close and cozy to any politician and to have it broadcast as well, a serious lack of judgement from both her and the BBC. She is not the story and once she became it she should have lost her job.

Beechwoodspark

She is way too cozy with Johnson and other tories in high places. I disregard most of her “analysis”. It’s easy to tell she is simply parroting what her “friends” have told her

briany

dePeatrick wrote: »

Merkel still looks dignified and honourable. I have always felt that she emanates an intillegence and warmth rare in politicians if her rank. Johnson on the other hand....

That poster puts paid to the spiel of "We love Europe, we just don't like the EU."

At this rate, the old "If you want a n*****r for a neighbour, vote Liberal or Labour" posters can't be far off.