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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Quin_Dub

This is the eleventh incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread,

Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
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J Mysterio

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Flicking through twitter and their journos tweets all have Eu want to torpedo the GFA in them.

Not even questioning. Just repeating what they’re being fed. Blame game in full throttle now

LK is setting the standards obv. She is the Political editor so would be in charge of editorial policy. She thinks it's ok to base entire articles of some whisperings from 'sources', thus it's ok for all their political journalists.

Hurrache

prawnsambo wrote: »

It seems that tweet has been deleted. Getting a 404.

[url]

https://twitter.com/HeleneBismarck/status/1181516597506256896?s=19[/url]

NotToScale

Sounds to me like No 10 spin office has taken note that attacking Ireland's position is going to cause enormous blowback domestically in the UK and, perhaps more seriously, in the United States, where Congressional reps have already said they'd block a trade deal if the UK messes up NI.

So they've instead deicide to claim Angela Merkel is torpedoing the GFA. That basically to me sounds like it's messaging aimed at the USA right wing, who already seem to have it in for Merkel, the EU and Germany.

Merkel should just clarify, preferably with a transcript or recording, the actual contents of that call.

It seems fairly unlikely she used any reference to Germany leaving the EU to illustrate a point and it also seems extremely unlikely that she said what's claimed about NI. It's just not her style or how she operates. She might lay out facts but the unnamed No 10 source just does not sound credible.

Infini

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Flicking through twitter and their journos tweets all have Eu want to torpedo the GFA in them.

Not even questioning. Just repeating what they’re being fed. Blame game in full throttle now

Boris and co only want their payoff nothing else, they don't give a shìte who suffers from this they're intent on trying to blame everyone else for their actions but they wont get away with it for very long. Lets see if parliment decides to act and remove these charlitans soon.

Tell me how

NotToScale wrote: »

Sounds to me like No 10 spin office has taken note that attacking Ireland's position is going to cause enormous blowback domestically in the UK and, perhaps more seriously, in the United States, where Congressional reps have already said they'd block a trade deal if the UK messes up NI.

So they've instead deicide to claim Angela Merkel is torpedoing the GFA. That basically to me sounds like it's messaging aimed at the USA right wing, who already seem to have it in for Merkel, the EU and Germany.

They'd want to have had their breakfast if they are going to take on Merkel in this way. She is smart enough to but correct them and ensure that it won't be seen that she is forcing them to take the path they want to take.

VinLieger

Markets arent happy with these shenanigans apparently, the pound has dropped from 1.12 to 1.11 vs the euro this morning

lawred2

VinLieger wrote: »

Markets arent happy with these shenanigans apparently, the pound has dropped from 1.12 to 1.11 vs the euro this morning

Is movement of 1p that remarkable?

Stop moaning ffs

Merkel has denied it. And now tusk with this. Whatever Boris and Cummings we’re trying is blowing up in their faces

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1181519363783974912?s=21

VinLieger

lawred2 wrote: »

Is movement of 1p that remarkable?

Compared to the stability of the last 2 weeks as well as the steady upward recovery from the lows of 1.07 yes it actually is, also thats only this morning will be interesting to see if it continues throughout the day depending on what other "news" we hear

trellheim

Yes indeed .. Although it may be exactly what they want

.@BorisJohnson, what’s at stake is not winning some stupid blame game. At stake is the future of Europe and the UK as well as the security and interests of our people. You don’t want a deal, you don’t want an extension, you don’t want to revoke, quo vadis?

.... tusk

J Mysterio

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Merkel has denied it. And now tusk with this. Whatever Boris and Cummings we’re trying is blowing up in their faces

https://twitter.com/eucopresident/status/1181519363783974912?s=21

Wow! Nice one Tusk.

Water John

If she is being used in this manner and allows herself be used, Laura K should, consider her position.

If the briefing on the Merkel call is inaccurate, that a serious error by all concerned.

VinLieger

Water John wrote: »

If she is being used in this manner and allows herself be used, Laura K should, consider her position.

If the briefing on the Merkel call is inaccurate, that a serious error by all concerned.

She's either 100% complicit or shes the most under qualified and naive person to hold her position in the history of the BBC, anyway both of them mean she won't be considering her position as shes either happy with what shes doing or too stupid to understand what shes doing.

WomanSkirtFan8

Tippex wrote: »

I wonder how long after brexit the british public start complaining about the effects of them leaving. this is going to run for years and years. When will they realise they are screwed?

I'd say probably within a week if they leave on the 31st. Naturally, it's all going to be the EU's fault of course.

VinLieger

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

I'd say probably within a week if they leave on the 31st. Naturally, it's all going to be the EU's fault of course.

100% they will start saying after the 31st that they actually wanted a deal and 17.4 million voted for a deal but the big mean EU wouldn't give it to them.

lawred2

Water John wrote: »

If she is being used in this manner and allows herself be used, Laura K should, consider her position.

If the briefing on the Merkel call is inaccurate, that a serious error by all concerned.

She is delighted to be within the inner sanctum... it's clouding her judgement.

It's all schoolyard games with her. Tittle tattles and rumour mills.

She'd be more at home on gossip pages to be honest than a Political correspondent.

Hurrache

Water John wrote: »

If the briefing on the Merkel call is inaccurate, that a serious error by all concerned.

The fact that the call happened is confirmed, but as per usual they don't publish contents of confidential conversations, however the implication from the EU is that it didn't happen as Cummings claims
[url]

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1181518630103715841?s=19[/url]

[url]

https://twitter.com/JamesCrisp6/status/1181518631873765376?s=19[/url]

quokula

VinLieger wrote: »

She's either 100% complicit or shes the most under qualified and naive person to hold her position in the history of the BBC, anyway both of them mean she won't be considering her position as shes either happy with what shes doing or too stupid to understand what shes doing.

She's been 100% complicit ever since she took the job. I don't have it to hand, but there's a really interesting article that came out a while back from a former director at the BBC, about the intentional placement of pro-government voices in powerful positions in the BBC's political coverage that started in the Cameron era under the threat of massive budget cuts.

The BBC sadly ceased to be a reliable source of information on matters of UK politics several years ago. And we've seen the knock on effects of that misinformed public in the Brexit referendum and the continuing chaos in parliament.

trellheim

Laura K views everything through a political lens. Not too wrong - that's her job as Pol editor.

I have a massive issue with her only spinning the No 10 side , her phone contacts are more important it seems.

One could take the view that chris mason, Katya and Adam Fleming have the rest of it covered - and they do
- Adam Fleming is excellent on the detaik. One could then take the view that Laura's only job is to shadow no 10 . In that regard one could take the view she is doing an excellent job.

This means though that you need real balance in your twitter feed to get an accurate picture.

ancapailldorcha

Below standard posts deleted and sanction issued.

farmchoice

NotToScale wrote: »

Sounds to me like No 10 spin office has taken note that attacking Ireland's position is going to cause enormous blowback domestically in the UK and, perhaps more seriously, in the United States, where Congressional reps have already said they'd block a trade deal if the UK messes up NI.

So they've instead deicide to claim Angela Merkel is torpedoing the GFA. That basically to me sounds like it's messaging aimed at the USA right wing, who already seem to have it in for Merkel, the EU and Germany.

Merkel should just clarify, preferably with a transcript or recording, the actual contents of that call.

It seems fairly unlikely she used any reference to Germany leaving the EU to illustrate a point and it also seems extremely unlikely that she said what's claimed about NI. It's just not her style or how she operates. She might lay out facts but the unnamed No 10 source just does not sound credible.

i dont think its anything like as sophisticated as that.
everything that emanates from number 10 is aimed at one person only, Doris from stevenage who has voted tory all her life, she voted fro brexit and then voted for the brexit party in the European elections. she is the key to success for boris, all she wants to hear is that this mess is all somebody else's fault, not hers and not boris'. ''that nigel farage talks sense'' and if boris sounds the same as him then she will happily vote tory again.

NotToScale

It's remarkable and even bizzare how since Sky News UK left the Murdock empire (it's now owned by Comcast) the quality of their output went way up. They're very willing to fact check and hold the government to account.

It's almost as if BBC News and Sky News have traded places.

It's a shame though to see the BBC allowing itself to be ground down. It's an institution that had built a really excellent reputation for independent journalism. Without that it's really a shadow of what it once was. Back to being the Home Service and the Empire Service I guess.

It's just a pity though as the BBC has huge resources and Sky really is a run on a shoe string in comparison.

J Mysterio

No Deal Readiness Report

Professor Moriarty

NotToScale wrote: »

It's remarkable and even bizzare how since Sky News UK left the Murdock empire (it's now owned by Comcast) the quality of their output went way up. They're very willing to fact check and hold the government to account.

It's almost as if BBC News and Sky News have traded places.

It's a shame though to see the BBC allowing itself to be ground down. It's an institution that had built a really excellent reputation for independent journalism. Without that it's really a shadow of what it once was. Back to being the Home Service and the Empire Service I guess.

Newsnight is very obviously biased against Brexit.

NotToScale

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Newsnight is very obviously biased against Brexit.

Newsnight is probably the last bastion of aggressive fact checking in the BBC. Their whole reason for existence is to hold power to account. I wouldn't read that as biased. They've always probed, grilled and challenged government positions. That's what they do.

The general news output on has become far too gentle and polite .

A Dub in Glasgo

Tony Connelly RTE

Here's a quick take on the Johnson-Merkel call:

EU sources say the tone of the call as reported seems questionable: normally govt sources characterise their own position in a leader-to-leader call (ie Johnson's), ie unusual for Number 10 to describe what Merkel said

2/ Also, the tone is extremely unlike Merkel, who tends to be diplomatic to a fault, ie it wd be completly out of character for her to tell the UK that NI had to remain in the customs union

3/ So view of one senior EU source is that Downing Street is collapsing the scrum on the basis that everything now shifts to a No Deal election.

4/ "It sounds like Number 10 are engaged in the calculation that it’s in their interest for that to happen early, rather than late. You wouldn’t be briefing something like that otherwise," says source.

5/ The Johnson-Merkel phone call briefing would therefore be seen in conjunction with the Spectator "text message" story, which source says reads more like a press release rather than an actual text message...

6/ Source says both developments could be designed to heap pressure on member states, threatening a No Deal election to see if they can get a snap change of mandate from the European Council, ie going above the head of the Commission, injecting more drama.

7/ All told, source believes Downing St is getting their retaliation in first. Talks were clearly going badly anyway, but view in Brussels is that Downing St has decided to get the blame game started now rather than later.

Professor Moriarty

NotToScale wrote: »

Newsnight is probably the last bastion of aggressive fact checking in the BBC. Their whole reason for existence is to hold power to account. I wouldn't read that as biased. They've always probed, grilled and challenged government positions. That's what they do.

The general news output on has become far too gentle and polite .

Agreed. But if you look at it from a No Deal Brexiteer perspective, i.e. unicorns, rainbows and lies, it would look like bias.

Stop moaning ffs

EU statement. They’re not having this nonsense from Cummings

https://twitter.com/williamsjon/status/1181525962204299266?s=21

Tell me how

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Agreed. But if you look at it from a No Deal Brexiteer perspective, i.e. unicorns, rainbows and lies, it would look like bias.

Emily Maitlis and Emma Barnet often host and neither would seem to be pro-Brexit, if anything, on her radio show, Emma comes across as pro-remain.

To be fair to Maitlis, I think she hides whatever leaning she holds very well. Very good presenter and journalist.

Professor Moriarty

Tell me how wrote: »

Emily Maitlis and Emma Barnet often host and neither would seem to be pro-Brexit, if anything, on her radio show, Emma comes across as pro-remain.

I think their interrogation of Brexiteers is very obviously more robust than that of Remainers. I'd include Kirsty Wark in that list too.