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Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

wexfordman2

Hi,

Thinking this might be a worthwhile information point and reference.

Good to get an idea of prices, and see if the recent grant is causing anomies etc.

If anyone cares to post up quotes they got (but excluding the company/supplier to keep mods happy).

We should show quote if system dimension, something along the lines of

4kw solar with 5kw battery and diverter 9,900 ex vat
5kw solar with 5kw battery and diverter 11,200 ex vat.

Additional info
This was for a "premium" solar panel with 30 year warranty.

Provider is seai registered, so grant is apicable, and he claims HRI/vat refund available also, however I believe thats an error.

Payment terms
20% on order
Additional 50% prior to install
Remaining 30% post commissioning

Quite for market standard panels as follows

4kw with 5kw battery 8750 ex vat
5kw with 5kw batter 9750 ex vat

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garo

AFAIK most inverters allow you to operate in either mode but not both. So you either have wires connected to the EPS output or AC-GRID output. Does your switch physically move the connection over from AC-GRID to AC-BACKUP in your case?
This separate connection is essential as you need to have is something that isolates your inverter and the backup circuits it powers from the grid. You don’t want to accidentally electrocute an ESB worker repairing lines that they thought were without power. Hence unkel’s device of having a physically separate outlet. You cannot have your entire house connected to the backup without isolating it from the grid. Maybe the switch you talk of does that already by you need to be sure.

Have you rooted around in your inverter confit settings? There must be something to switch modes.

reklamos

Northumberland wrote: »

I dont think so. As Unkel has already suggested.

I already have a manual switch already installed to switch to the 'backup' output from the inverter to connect with my whole house in the event of a grid supply failure. So long as we are careful not to use the electric kettle etc etc, this should be fine to keep the lights and TV going on a dark winters night during a power cut, and we would just have to remember to turn the switch back to 'grid' when the mains came back.

This is what I meant you need to do it manually. I have nothing connected to backup. Have tried how it work when you flick the switch to backup when you have grid power?

Northumberland

reklamos wrote: »

Ok, but for this you need to wire your all house onto backup output and have automatic switch when the power is cut. In other inverters all that stuff is done internally by the inverter.

I dont think so. As Unkel has already suggested.

I already have a manual switch already installed to switch to the 'backup' output from the inverter to connect with my whole house in the event of a grid supply failure. So long as we are careful not to use the electric kettle etc etc, this should be fine to keep the lights and TV going on a dark winters night during a power cut, and we would just have to remember to turn the switch back to 'grid' when the mains came back.

reklamos

unkel wrote: »

Of course it is. It has a separate emergency AC circuit that you can power your house with when the grid is down, provided of course there's enough juice in your battery and subject to the max discharge rate of your battery. In the case of 2 * Pylontech US2000, that should be 2 * 25A or 2.5kW

Plenty to power the base of your house with plus about one heavy appliance at a time like a washing machine or microwave. You can't use kettle / shower / oven / EV charger and the like though

My own AC side inverter (Sofar ME3000) is the same. I'm connecting the emergency AC output to a waterproof outside socket. If the grid should go down, I'll connect up a 25m extension reel into my house and connect the essentials onto it

People are getting shockingly bad information from what are supposed to be reputable (because SEAI approved) installers

Ok, but for this you need to wire your all house onto backup output and have automatic switch when the power is cut. In other inverters all that stuff is done internally by the inverter.

Northumberland

Thanks Unkel for confirming that. The only thing now then is to find out exactly how the settings should be configured to run off grid! As I said before, user manual rather opaque.

unkel

reklamos wrote: »

The inverter that you have is not capable of running completely off grid.

Of course it is. It has a separate emergency AC circuit that you can power your house with when the grid is down, provided of course there's enough juice in your battery and subject to the max discharge rate of your battery. In the case of 2 * Pylontech US2000, that should be 2 * 25A or 2.5kW

Plenty to power the base of your house with plus about one heavy appliance at a time like a washing machine or microwave. You can't use kettle / shower / oven / EV charger and the like though

My own AC side inverter (Sofar ME3000) is the same. I'm connecting the emergency AC output to a waterproof outside socket. If the grid should go down, I'll connect up a 25m extension reel into my house and connect the essentials onto it

People are getting shockingly bad information from what are supposed to be reputable (because SEAI approved) installers

Northumberland

From the manual available online -
Page 3 - "Product description - The Solis RHI series is designed for residential hybrid systems, which can work with batteries to optimize self-consumption. The unit can operate in both off-grid and on-grid modes[/COLOR]. [/B]The Solis RHI series has 4 different models: RHI-3.6K-48ES, ... RHI-5K-48ES etc". The unit itself, as shown in Fig 1.2 Bottom side view on the same page of the manual (page 3) has two output sockets, one labelled AC-GRID, which is where the 'normal' connection back to the grid is made, and the second socket is labelled 'AC-BACKUP' and this is presumably to supply AC from the batteries when their is no grid. Page 41, under 'storage mode select' states that there are three items in the Storage Mode Select: Time charging, Off-grid and Auto ON/OFF modes. "In installations where no grid is present it is recommeded to use Off-Grid mode."

Northumberland

The sales material and the instruction manual, such as it is, for my Solis Hybrid says that it DOES support 'off grid', and the technical person working for Solis in the UK (an english guy who did really seem to know the inverter inside out) who I got through to on the phone said that it could be easily switched to 'off grid' mode - just that he never got round yet to telling me exactly how to do it. I do understand that SEAI and or ESB do not really want off grid use for some reason or other, but that should not prevent a user having the option I feel. There is another potential problem with the 'firefighter shunts' that SEAI require to be installed in the roof space under the panels which will isolate the DC power as soon as the AC power is turned off at the meter box, by, for example, the fire brigade when tackling a fire. But that is not my problem at the moment, since my installer 'forgot' to install such a shunt!

reklamos

Northumberland wrote: »

Hello, I wonder if anyone on this forum has had any experience/success with running a solar/battery system completely off grid - at least for a short time?

I have about 4.7kW of panels, hooked up to a Solis RHI-3.6K-48ES hybrid inverter and 2 Pylontech US2000 Plus Li batteries. They system is all working rather well, so long as it is 'grid linked'. But I live in an area where the ESB main power cables run through a forestry plantation, and, in spite of appeals to ESB, every time there is a winter storm I am without power for several hours. It seems a real pity to be 'lighting candles' when I have 5kW of power stored in batteries and a hybrid inverter that according to it's specs can work 'off grid'.

My installer, who unfortunately has much bigger projects to chase than following up on his commitment to me, did eventually install a change over switch and a connector to the "off grid" outlet on the Solis, but they system will still not power the house (any of it) when the main grid switch is turned off. The Solis manual is a classic example of presumably clear Chinese being translated in to semi-meaningless english, there are several different places where settings for 'off grid use' are mentioned, but far from clear what exactly should be done. I have been on to the Solis expert in the UK who tried to be helpful, but so far, I have not succeeded.

The inverter that you have is not capable of running completely off grid. I have same one just 5kWh. I asked the same question my installer and this is the answrr I got from him. He said there good amount of inverters that do support that capability but none of them were SEAI approved, hence no grant would be available.

Northumberland

Hello, I wonder if anyone on this forum has had any experience/success with running a solar/battery system completely off grid - at least for a short time?

I have about 4.7kW of panels, hooked up to a Solis RHI-3.6K-48ES hybrid inverter and 2 Pylontech US2000 Plus Li batteries. They system is all working rather well, so long as it is 'grid linked'. But I live in an area where the ESB main power cables run through a forestry plantation, and, in spite of appeals to ESB, every time there is a winter storm I am without power for several hours. It seems a real pity to be 'lighting candles' when I have 5kW of power stored in batteries and a hybrid inverter that according to it's specs can work 'off grid'.

My installer, who unfortunately has much bigger projects to chase than following up on his commitment to me, did eventually install a change over switch and a connector to the "off grid" outlet on the Solis, but they system will still not power the house (any of it) when the main grid switch is turned off. The Solis manual is a classic example of presumably clear Chinese being translated in to semi-meaningless english, there are several different places where settings for 'off grid use' are mentioned, but far from clear what exactly should be done. I have been on to the Solis expert in the UK who tried to be helpful, but so far, I have not succeeded.

unkel

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Can we not solve the issue by optimising our array according to load demand instead of pointing everything due South?
It'd be simpler, cheaper, a better investment (faster return) and more efficient I think.

I'd say most people can't. People just work with the roof they have. For a lot of people that means south facing, like for myself. Putting in an expensive ground mounted east west facing system using up the very little I have left of my back garden is not an option. If I ever will put in a garden room / large shed, it will be east west facing and plastered with PV for the very reason you mention

I don't mind sending electricity back to the grid for free. My system is only in since earlier this year and I have sent at least 2,000kWh to the grid. I don't mind either to build a large battery pack with re-used second hand batteries to store some of it and use it myself in the evening - and I would have gone for the subsidised battery system this year if I hadn't had PV already. I don't mind charging my car with PV. That's my next project after the battery.

[Deleted User]

This contrived problem of not being able to use the power we produce being arguably and controversially solved by storing a lesser percentage of it in a high tech battery with complex electronics rather than offsetting gas and coal-fired utility power plant load...

Can we not solve the issue by optimising our array according to load demand instead of pointing everything due South?
It'd be simpler, cheaper, a better investment (faster return) and more efficient I think.

Northumberland

Winterman1234 wrote: »

Yes after grant, bunaglow with tiled roof and all panels on the same side. Location Donegal and company are northern ireland based and on SEAI register.

I wonder if you went forward with that NI based company? From my reading of the SEAI register there was only one company from NI included, and I used that company, with a very bad experience, still waiting for remedial work to be completed in order to get the SEAI grant. PM me for more details.

air

KCross wrote: »

You dont suffer from cynicism do you @air!!

I wish I had cause for a different point of view!
I applaud the existence of SEAI but like very many other government departments and quangos it exists first and foremost to serve its staff at great cost to the nation (and the environment in this case).

KCross

You dont suffer from cynicism do you @air!!

air

The government is directed by civil servants and various commercial interest groups and as such it should be no surprise that all policy is shaped to benefit one party or the other (or themselves obviously!)

The SEAI stands to maintain or increase it's workforce by continuing with needlessly bureaucracratic grant schemes. This benefits the head of SEAI as he or she is now more secure and head of a bigger organisation, more wage and pension potential.

A FIT will potentially reduce profits for energy suppliers and so they will lobby against it.

I'm not in the least surprised that no FIT was announced.

I seem to recall an EU court case which mandated us to introduce one recently though?

KCross

They did allocate money for the Solar PV grant but nothing new as such. No mention of FiT!!!

garo

gally74 wrote: »

Any expectations for tomorrow?

Expected SFA. Got SFA.

gally74

Any expectations for tomorrow?

eamon_l

Alkers wrote: »

As promised:
Option #1

8 x Bisol 375w Monocrystalline modules (3.0kWp)(All black modules)

Bisol Mounting system

Santon Fire Safety Switch

Santon Switch Gear

Sofar 3.0 kWp Inverter kitted to 2.4kWh Pylon Tech storage capacity

Costing

€7750(inclusive of VAT)

€3100 (SEAI Grant)

€4650 Final cost after grant incentive

Please let me know who you got the quote from please

[Deleted User]

Yurp.
ESB meter, ESB problem.

I don't charge my clients every time I need a new screwdriver.

unkel

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

It's worth €50 they can charge what they want...what's the alternative?

And they expect us to cough up €340 if we want to be paid a €0.05/kWh FIT?

That means we won't get paid a cent for the first 7,000kWh we send back to the grid.

Fook that. I'm not paying €340. I'd rather send all my overproduction to the grid for free rather than pay a wad of cash up front to maybe get a pittance in return in 4 years time.

[Deleted User]

spose wrote: »

When I asked whether the new smart meters would all have the ability to track import/export I was told yes but this is an additional setting on the meter that will not be turned on.

I wonder do they work well inside faraday cages?

[Deleted User]

air wrote: »

I'm not so sure why they charge so much for it tbh, the meters are pretty inexpensive.

It's worth €50 they can charge what they want...what's the alternative?

spose

ESB networks rang me after I submitted my microgeneration form to know if I wanted the import/export meter. When I asked whether the new smart meters would all have the ability to track import/export I was told yes but this is an additional setting on the meter that will not be turned on. Presuming it will then be €340 to turn it on

air

Yes, for the FIT.
I'm not a complete idiot

It was a gamble as the scheme is only extended annually but it has paid for itself a few times now thankfully.

I'm not so sure why they charge so much for it tbh, the meters are pretty inexpensive.

unkel

air wrote: »

I got one installed several years ago, €340 fairly straightforward..

Why? To avail of the old FIT scheme back then I presume? Or is there any other reason why anyone would part with serious money for one that doesn't give any benefits except giving you some stats on what you exported?

air

gally74 wrote: »

Has anyone managed to get an import export meter installed yet?

I got one installed several years ago, €340 fairly straightforward..

gally74

Has anyone managed to get an import export meter installed yet?

garo

Actually you are probably correct. Went to the inverter and it has two values in its LCD: E_pv and E_ac and the value in the app corresponds with E_ac.