nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Quin_Dub

The continuing discussion of the Donald Trump Presidency.

Keep it civil and please note the charter before posting

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Stop moaning ffs

You would have to think ivanka has a brain and she’s thinking she knows her dad is a shady piece of s**t and she has to love him anyways but she knows he’s up to neck in it and it’s all about to come crashing down and how she can position herself and her prospects without disillusioning her fathers base but also putting enough water between Her and him to keep herself safe

aloyisious

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Trump is now saying he made the call to Zelensky on the insistence of Rick Perry. It looks like good old Rick is about to be offered up as a fall-guy..

Good luck with that Donnie!!

https://www.axios.com/trump-blamed-rick-perry-call-ukraine-zelensky-8178447a-0374-4ac6-b321-a9454b0565d4.html

I'm not suggesting that Perry is in any way connected with the requested investigation into the Bidens but given his Admin position as energy secretary it can hardly be purely coincidental that the alleged Biden corruption involved Ukrainian energy and maybe why he was the Admin cabinet visitor to Yelensky in place of Don or Mike.

I cant see Perry appreciating Don trying to throw him under the bus or providing his name to the committees for a subpoena. It'll be nice to see the GOP elders [Senator Graham] come out and say they believe Don when he says he got his instruction to contact Yelensky from one of his cabiner officers, that Perry is the rotten apple in the barrel.

Manic Moran

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trump is no closer to the exit door then we was a few weeks ago. Politics has changed in the last 20 or so years, it is far more about sides now than it ever was and as some posters have pointed out there are many GOP voters that will simply never countenance going against Trump as that will be judged to be siding with the DNC. The idea that the country comes first is long dead.

And on both sides. Every now and then I tune into the KCBS archives to keep abreast of what's happening in San Francisco. I still own a house there, it's not just academic. KCBS is the most popular news station in the San Francisco area. Willie Brown is a weekly contributor.

Trump recently made a statement about the level of cleanliness in San Francisco. Short audio clip of the discussion: https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-president-trump-criticizes-sf
It took the presenters and a pundit three minutes to pin down Brown to accept that Trump was correct, and at the very end Brown confirmed that he didn't care if Trump was correct or not, he only cared that it was Trump who said it.

About the same time, the Shanti Project wanted to give a lifetime achievement award, known normally as "The Nancy Pelosi Lifetime Achievement Award" to Dede Wilsey, a well-known SF philanthropist, who tends to give huge amounts to any organisation she deems worthy, and no small dollar values to politicians, on both sides of the divide (Mainly moderates, including Pelosi). The Shanti Project is one of the oldest LGBT health/AIDS organisations, well regarded in San Francisco. Her partial association with Republicans was sufficient for SF Democrats to demand that the Shanti Project rescind the award, and Pelosi insisted her name be removed from the award. Again, the commentators observe how partisan politics is crossing the 'sensible' line. https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-head-sf-democratic-party-calls-boycott-shanti-project . It doesn't matter what you do, it only matters if you ever supported a Republican.

The Shanti Project did not back down:
https://www.shanti.org/news-events/our-response-to-sf-democratic-party/
"To rescind an award based upon who a person supports–or doesn’t support politically–goes against everything Shanti stands for"

The saving grace: Most of the US is not the extreme of, say, Provo on one side or San Francisco on the other. The problem is that those are the politics which are getting the attention.

listermint

Manic Moran wrote: »

And on both sides. Every now and then I tune into the KCBS archives to keep abreast of what's happening in San Francisco. I still own a house there, it's not just academic. KCBS is the most popular news station in the San Francisco area. Willie Brown is a weekly contributor.

Trump recently made a statement about the level of cleanliness in San Francisco. Short audio clip of the discussion: https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-president-trump-criticizes-sf
It took the presenters and a pundit three minutes to pin down Brown to accept that Trump was correct, and at the very end Brown confirmed that he didn't care if Trump was correct or not, he only cared that it was Trump who said it.

About the same time, the Shanti Project wanted to give a lifetime achievement award, known normally as "The Nancy Pelosi Lifetime Achievement Award" to Dede Wilsey, a well-known SF philanthropist, who tends to give huge amounts to any organisation she deems worthy, and no small dollar values to politicians, on both sides of the divide (Mainly moderates, including Pelosi). The Shanti Project is one of the oldest LGBT health/AIDS organisations, well regarded in San Francisco. Her partial association with Republicans was sufficient for SF Democrats to demand that the Shanti Project rescind the award, and Pelosi insisted her name be removed from the award. Again, the commentators observe how partisan politics is crossing the 'sensible' line. https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-head-sf-democratic-party-calls-boycott-shanti-project . It doesn't matter what you do, it only matters if you ever supported a Republican.

The Shanti Project did not back down:
https://www.shanti.org/news-events/our-response-to-sf-democratic-party/
"To rescind an award based upon who a person supports–or doesn’t support politically–goes against everything Shanti stands for"

The saving grace: Most of the US is not the extreme of, say, Provo on one side or San Francisco on the other. The problem is that those are the politics which are getting the attention.

Some of the many reasons it's far from the greatest country on earth. Something we are continually told by gung ho Americana.

everlast75

The evolution of the Ukraine story....

https://twitter.com/toddzwillich/status/1180607381308346369?s=19

Leroy42

Manic Moran wrote: »

And on both sides. Every now and then I tune into the KCBS archives to keep abreast of what's happening in San Francisco. I still own a house there, it's not just academic. KCBS is the most popular news station in the San Francisco area. Willie Brown is a weekly contributor.

Trump recently made a statement about the level of cleanliness in San Francisco. Short audio clip of the discussion: https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-president-trump-criticizes-sf
It took the presenters and a pundit three minutes to pin down Brown to accept that Trump was correct, and at the very end Brown confirmed that he didn't care if Trump was correct or not, he only cared that it was Trump who said it.

About the same time, the Shanti Project wanted to give a lifetime achievement award, known normally as "The Nancy Pelosi Lifetime Achievement Award" to Dede Wilsey, a well-known SF philanthropist, who tends to give huge amounts to any organisation she deems worthy, and no small dollar values to politicians, on both sides of the divide (Mainly moderates, including Pelosi). The Shanti Project is one of the oldest LGBT health/AIDS organisations, well regarded in San Francisco. Her partial association with Republicans was sufficient for SF Democrats to demand that the Shanti Project rescind the award, and Pelosi insisted her name be removed from the award. Again, the commentators observe how partisan politics is crossing the 'sensible' line. https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-head-sf-democratic-party-calls-boycott-shanti-project . It doesn't matter what you do, it only matters if you ever supported a Republican.

The Shanti Project did not back down:
https://www.shanti.org/news-events/our-response-to-sf-democratic-party/
"To rescind an award based upon who a person supports–or doesn’t support politically–goes against everything Shanti stands for"

The saving grace: Most of the US is not the extreme of, say, Provo on one side or San Francisco on the other. The problem is that those are the politics which are getting the attention.

Ity isn't really Manic, that is a simple get out to avoid looking at what is really happening.

Look at the treatment of Al Franken. Picture comes out and the DNC forced him out. GOP won't even countenance questions about Trump.

Clearly the very two party situation in the US leads to a win-lose competition, but Trump and the GOP have taken it to a whole new level.

Let us remember that Trump has blamed the courts, the FBI, the CIA, the civil service, US allies and even his own party members rather than look at taking a position in the best interest of the US.

Go back to the end of the Obama era, and how McConnell tore up convention on the naming of a SCOTUS.

There are not the same.

everlast75

Manic Moran wrote: »

And on both sides. Every now and then I tune into the KCBS archives to keep abreast of what's happening in San Francisco. I still own a house there, it's not just academic. KCBS is the most popular news station in the San Francisco area. Willie Brown is a weekly contributor.

Trump recently made a statement about the level of cleanliness in San Francisco. Short audio clip of the discussion: https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-president-trump-criticizes-sf
It took the presenters and a pundit three minutes to pin down Brown to accept that Trump was correct, and at the very end Brown confirmed that he didn't care if Trump was correct or not, he only cared that it was Trump who said it.

About the same time, the Shanti Project wanted to give a lifetime achievement award, known normally as "The Nancy Pelosi Lifetime Achievement Award" to Dede Wilsey, a well-known SF philanthropist, who tends to give huge amounts to any organisation she deems worthy, and no small dollar values to politicians, on both sides of the divide (Mainly moderates, including Pelosi). The Shanti Project is one of the oldest LGBT health/AIDS organisations, well regarded in San Francisco. Her partial association with Republicans was sufficient for SF Democrats to demand that the Shanti Project rescind the award, and Pelosi insisted her name be removed from the award. Again, the commentators observe how partisan politics is crossing the 'sensible' line. https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-head-sf-democratic-party-calls-boycott-shanti-project . It doesn't matter what you do, it only matters if you ever supported a Republican.

The Shanti Project did not back down:
https://www.shanti.org/news-events/our-response-to-sf-democratic-party/
"To rescind an award based upon who a person supports–or doesn’t support politically–goes against everything Shanti stands for"

The saving grace: Most of the US is not the extreme of, say, Provo on one side or San Francisco on the other. The problem is that those are the politics which are getting the attention.

Oh ffs.

And who the **** is responsible for this level of partisanship exactly?

And before you say it, there was partisanship before Trump, but it's downright disingenuous to suggest that "oh well, that's just politics" and "isn't it sad that both sides are unreasonable" without first acknowledging that Trump has completely and utterly changed the political landscape. And before his blind followers revel in that statement as some sort of compliment- it isn't!

He had literally verbally abused the electorate.

He has incited hatred. He has incited violence. He has incited racism.

He has encouraged corruption. He has encouraged authoritarianism.

The list goes.

Now, accepting that is the truth (which it is), on what planet do you or anyone else think that his name is not now toxic and thus there will not be some sort of instinctive, impulsive reaction to anything he says or does?

Is it sad that people have become that way? Absolutely!

But I'm frankly sick and tired of this "both sides are to blame" garbage argument. People promoting that are unable (or unwilling) to step back and look at things in context.

The analogy that springs to mind is A and B are in a relationship. A gaslights the other for 3 years until finally B flips and does something unreasonable. People promoting the both sides argument promote and concentrate on B's actions as being unreasonable while not giving A's actions the level of focus and blame that they should.

He has debased the highest office of the land. I'm not american but I find him, not through some prism of "fake media", but via his own actions and words, to be one of the most despicable people I know of. I have a visceral reaction to him. Now, if that was my country being torn apart, debased, endangered, made poorer through corruption and self serving politics, my kids' future mortgaged off by this guy, you're god damn right I'd be even more enraged and sometimes unreasonable.

The idea that the reaction, one cultivated by Trump et al for years, is to blame is utter, utter, garbage and i don't accept it for one second.

It's a strategy that he knows people who feel down feel some kinship with him will buy into. Anger people enough until they lose reason and then label it "the Trump Derangement syndrome", the "look at how he triggers the left" stuff. Its a ploy and whilst you or anyone else cam convince yourself that he has a point - he doesn't.

And that is why, in my opinion, some posters here get short shrift when criticising the democratic actions. A lot of the time it is subtle both sides nonsense.

And before anyone weighs in with the "echo chamber" trope, I criticise Democrats. I dod it before Trump and I will do it after.
But what I do first is contextualize the action which gives it a fairer perspective. Anyone in here knows my view on 45 so i don't need to in many cases.

But those posters who stay silent on the abhorrent and egregious stuff he does and then post criticism of Democrats sometimes wonder why they get the reaction they do. Well, now you know. Maybe if you spoke up when the "send them back" chants happened, or when he told one of the 13,000 lies, people would view you as being balanced and fair. If you've a problem with that, maybe just don't complain when they don't.

Igotadose

In other Trumpworld news, seems like Stephanie Grisham, the invisible press secretary (Press conference? Nah.) has a dodgy history rife with plagiarism (Ooh...where did Melania get that speech from..) and a couple convictions for DWI: https://mavenroundtable.io/theintellectualist/news/trump-s-new-wh-press-secretary-has-arrest-record-shady-employment-history-ozdh1AMv3E6ACmURnuCeMg/

Cody montana

This Ukraine thing feels like it’s months old?

The panic from the White House has been glorious to watch.

Stop moaning ffs

Republicans: It’s hearsay

Trump: I did it

Republicans: The investigation is premature

Trump: I’m doing it again

Republicans: He did nothing wrong

Trump: Rick Perry made me do the thing that was wrong that I did

Republicans: Impeachment is such a drastic, divisive step to take

Trump: Impeach Mitt Romney

Cody montana

Stop moaning ffs wrote: »

Republicans: It’s hearsay

Trump: I did it

Republicans: The investigation is premature

Trump: I’m doing it again

Republicans: He did nothing wrong

Trump: Rick Perry made me do the thing that was wrong that I did

Republicans: Impeachment is such a drastic, divisive step to take

Trump: Impeach Mitt Romney

I hope trump take every one of these spineless cowards down with him.

aloyisious

Manic Moran wrote: »

And on both sides. Every now and then I tune into the KCBS archives to keep abreast of what's happening in San Francisco. I still own a house there, it's not just academic. KCBS is the most popular news station in the San Francisco area. Willie Brown is a weekly contributor.

Trump recently made a statement about the level of cleanliness in San Francisco. Short audio clip of the discussion: https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-president-trump-criticizes-sf
It took the presenters and a pundit three minutes to pin down Brown to accept that Trump was correct, and at the very end Brown confirmed that he didn't care if Trump was correct or not, he only cared that it was Trump who said it.

About the same time, the Shanti Project wanted to give a lifetime achievement award, known normally as "The Nancy Pelosi Lifetime Achievement Award" to Dede Wilsey, a well-known SF philanthropist, who tends to give huge amounts to any organisation she deems worthy, and no small dollar values to politicians, on both sides of the divide (Mainly moderates, including Pelosi). The Shanti Project is one of the oldest LGBT health/AIDS organisations, well regarded in San Francisco. Her partial association with Republicans was sufficient for SF Democrats to demand that the Shanti Project rescind the award, and Pelosi insisted her name be removed from the award. Again, the commentators observe how partisan politics is crossing the 'sensible' line. https://kcbsradio.radio.com/media/audio-channel/phil-matier-head-sf-democratic-party-calls-boycott-shanti-project . It doesn't matter what you do, it only matters if you ever supported a Republican.

The Shanti Project did not back down:
https://www.shanti.org/news-events/our-response-to-sf-democratic-party/
"To rescind an award based upon who a person supports–or doesn’t support politically–goes against everything Shanti stands for"

The saving grace: Most of the US is not the extreme of, say, Provo on one side or San Francisco on the other. The problem is that those are the politics which are getting the attention.

With regard to the theory that each party is as responsible as the other for the distance drawn between the belief of the average membership of either party, It seems to me that the Dems have not reached the level of non-partisanship operated by the leadership of the GOP. One merely has to look at the actions, or non-actions, of Nancy Pelosi in respect of Don Trump and the start of the impeachment process. It took a hell of a lot of obvious abuse of constitutional procedure and the norms still existing of US party electoral procedure by Don Trump to force her to agree with others in the Dem party to start the impeachment ball rolling. Speaking as adults, the GOP elders continue to show a degree of idiot-ship that amazes me and delights those who aim to destroy the US as an entity. Don is simply not the best and brightest that the GOP can field to represent themselves and their membership and until they admit that to be a fact and redress the wrong they are doing, it'll be SNAFU in the US. I keep having this image of a kid sitting on Gramp's lap asking "what did you do in the election, Gramp's?" and Gramps spluttering while trying to answer the kid.

everlast75

Some good news this Sunday.

May there be plenty more whistleblowers too.

https://twitter.com/ThisWeekABC/status/1180821531871649792?s=19

26000 Elephants

More whistleblowers on the same topic may not move things at quite the same pace as calling Romney an 'Ass' and (without a scintilla of irony) calling for his impeachment. Romney still has old school Republicans on his side, they wont like that. Especially if they are looking for plausable reasons to dump Trump in the near future.

marno21

26000 Elephants wrote: »

More whistleblowers on the same topic may not move things at quite the same pace as calling Romney an 'Ass' and (without a scintilla of irony) calling for his impeachment. Romney still has old school Republicans on his side, they wont like that. Especially if they are looking for plausable reasons to dump Trump in the near future.

Yet his niece, the RNC Chair, continues the over-the-top arselicking on Twitter

https://twitter.com/GOPChairwoman

It's FOX News level propaganda on there.

TomOnBoard

26000 Elephants wrote: »

More whistleblowers on the same topic may not move things at quite the same pace as calling Romney an 'Ass' and (without a scintilla of irony) calling for his impeachment. Romney still has old school Republicans on his side, they wont like that. Especially if they are looking for plausable reasons to dump Trump in the near future.

Another whistleblower in respect of the same Ukraine activity is hardly going to add much more to the fact pattern at this stage. I don't think anyone with a working brain who's is willing to accept facts is in any doubt that Trump did try to get Ukraine to 'investigate' the Bidens and that it was wrong.

The question now is "How wrong was it, and does it meet the 'treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanours ' clause of the Constitution's impeachment remedy". The pivots over the last day or so by the GOP have moved towards acknowledging that he did it and that it was wrong. But they are saying it didn't 'reeeally' break any laws, and it doesn't 'reeeally' constitute an impeachable offense.

Any other whistleblower needs to come out and blow the whistle on any/all other shady dealings and wrongdoing to add to the list of impeachable actions. That would be considerably more useful than gilding the lily on this one. Areas that spring to.mind include:

What has he been saying to Putin?
What kind of dealings have gone on with the various Middle Eastern princes and sheikhs?
What's the story with Orban in Hungary? Have there been any interferences with him in respect of helping Boris to make Brexit happen on 31st Oct?
Etc.

In the meantime, there's still all the legal investigations ongoing. One or more of those ought to be coming to fruition. Has there been any interference in those investigations by Barr? What about the whistleblower complaint on the attempted interference in the IRS audit process?

Soooo much sleaze... Sooo many opportunities for whistleblowers to do the right thing.....

Itssoeasy

The Sunday shows in America will be fun to listen to. I can't wait to see who's next into the batters box for trump.

26000 Elephants

My point is that as it stands, the impeachment is a done deal. There is enough evidence for the house to vote on it. The problem is getting it through the Senate. That is where a chipping away of support among Republicans will be felt the strongest.
That is where it counts.

duploelabs

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Another whistleblower in respect of the same Ukraine activity is hardly going to add much more to the fact pattern at this stage. I don't think anyone with a working brain who's is willing to accept facts is in any doubt that Trump did try to get Ukraine to 'investigate' the Bidens and that it was wrong.

The question now is "How wrong was it, and does it meet the 'treason, bribery and other high crimes and misdemeanours ' clause of the Constitution's impeachment remedy". The pivots over the last day or so by the GOP have moved towards acknowledging that he did it and that it was wrong. But they are saying it didn't 'reeeally' break any laws, and it doesn't 'reeeally' constitute an impeachable offense.

Any other whistleblower needs to come out and blow the whistle on any/all other shady dealings and wrongdoing to add to the list of impeachable actions. That would be considerably more useful than gilding the lily on this one. Areas that spring to.mind include:

What has he been saying to Putin?
What kind of dealings have gone on with the various Middle Eastern princes and sheikhs?
What's the story with Orban in Hungary? Have there been any interferences with him in respect of helping Boris to make Brexit happen on 31st Oct?
Etc.

In the meantime, there's still all the legal investigations ongoing. One or more of those ought to be coming to fruition. Has there been any interference in those investigations by Barr? What about the whistleblower complaint on the attempted interference in the IRS audit process?

Soooo much sleaze... Sooo many opportunities for whistleblowers to do the right thing.....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49953225

Apparently the second whistle-blower has first hand knowledge so that puts to bed argument of ambiguity for the initial one from trump. That will make some difference

Penn

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Another whistleblower in respect of the same Ukraine activity is hardly going to add much more to the fact pattern at this stage. I don't think anyone with a working brain who's is willing to accept facts is in any doubt that Trump did try to get Ukraine to 'investigate' the Bidens and that it was wrong.

The only thing about a second whistleblower though, is that this one apparently has first-hand knowledge of the call. Not only does this take away one of Trump/GOPs arguments that the first whistleblower only had second-hand knowledge of the call, but someone with first-hand knowledge of the call may have information regarding the possibility of other things which may have been said on the call that weren't on the transcript memo released (as others have pointed out it was a circa 30min call and the transcript would only have taken up at most half of that, so there may have been more said that wasn't in the transcript).

Plus if they're someone who would have had first-hand knowledge of that call, would likely have knowledge of other similar calls.

I wouldn't count this second whistleblower as being irrelevant just yet.

26000 Elephants

Perhaps the second whistleblower can shed light on the accuracy or completeness of the published transcript as they had first hand knowledge of the call. That's the only slam dunk I can see.

But still, the evidence is pretty stacked already.

TomOnBoard

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The Sunday shows in America will be fun to listen to. I can't wait to see who's next into the batters box for trump.

I see that Maggie Haberman of the NYT has tweeted that none of the networks could get anyone from the White House to appear. If KAC won't appear, things must be really dire inside the WH!

So expects lots of caterwauling and screeching from Rudy, Gym Jordan, Gaetz, Meadows and their ilk.. It should make unpleasant listening but great viewing watching them jump through hoops while carrying Everlast's much quoted 'bucket and mop'...

Kermit.de.frog

everlast75 wrote: »

Some good news this Sunday.

May there be plenty more whistleblowers too.

https://twitter.com/ThisWeekABC/status/1180821531871649792?s=19

Things moving fast now.

I always thought if it was all going to unravel it would do so really fast! :cool:

President Mike Pence though...

everlast75

https://twitter.com/LouDobbs/status/1180666494511915018?s=19

Pompeo turning on Rudy, Trump turning on Perry, Carlson turns on Trump, Dobbs turning on Graham.

Excuse me while I chant from the sides "fight, fight, fight, fight!"

Overheal

Oh snap, Lou Lou raging on Lindsey?

Has his Brett Kavanaugh wave of popular favoritism finally come to an abrupt end?

The Gateway Pundit no-less: he's upset the alt-right! This might actually be disruptive in SC

amandstu

Penn wrote: »

The only thing about a second whistleblower though, is that this one apparently has first-hand knowledge of the call. Not only does this take away one of Trump/GOPs arguments that the first whistleblower only had second-hand knowledge of the call, but someone with first-hand knowledge of the call may have information regarding the possibility of other things which may have been said on the call that weren't on the transcript memo released (as others have pointed out it was a circa 30min call and the transcript would only have taken up at most half of that, so there may have been more said that wasn't in the transcript).

Plus if they're someone who would have had first-hand knowledge of that call, would likely have knowledge of other similar calls.

I wouldn't count this second whistleblower as being irrelevant just yet.

Also is a second whistleblower also a traitor fit to be bumped off?

Will they line the two of them up before the firing squad or will they just try to make their lives hell?

Perhaps brother Vlad will step in with advice when it comes to "traitors"

Overheal

Mitch McConnel to Americans and Dark Money donors: 'How much are you willing to pay me to block Trump's impeachment?'

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/mcconnell-vows-to-block-trump-impeachment-in-fundraising-pitch/ar-AAIhdxl

"Nancy Pelosi's in the clutches of a left wing mob. They finally convinced her to impeach the president. All of you know your Constitution, the way that impeachment stops is a Senate majority with me as majority leader," McConnell says in an ad that began running on Thursday.

"But I need your help. Please contribute before the deadline," McConnell continues in the ad.

Water John

The second whistleblower is quite important. It takes the massive pressure off the first one. It also moves the conversation on as, the whataboutery of bias etc is blown out of the water.

What will bury Trump is, an overwhelming body of evidence of various misdemeanours. That will build.

aloyisious

everlast75 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/LouDobbs/status/1180666494511915018?s=19

Pompeo turning on Rudy, Trump turning on Perry, Carlson turns on Trump, Dobbs turning on Graham.

Excuse me while I chant from the sides "fight, fight, fight, fight!"

One might like to consider the idea that there is evidence that the GOP elders in the senate became aware through reliable sources of the doings of Don and HIS appointed agents In Ukraine with President Zelensky and that if this was revealed in whistle-blower's testimony to the House committees, there might be a sudden shift in the voting situation there.

Unless there's been a watertight White House [when its obvious there has not] when it came to talking between the Admin team and staffers and the Senate GOP members since the Ukraine phonecalls and texts started back in late May, I can't see them not being aware that something major was going on. Even the dimmest of senate members could have noted that the funds it approved for re-armament of the Ukraine Govt forces were not proceeding to destination as agreed in the senate, presumably in a non-partisan vote, given how Don likes publicizing US arms sales/deals to clients abroad.

I also cant see Vlad not been reliably updated by his own agency people on what was happening in Ukraine since late May, given the sudden departure of the US ambassador to the US then. It might be why he was cracking jokes at a recent Kremlin meeting about what the Trump Govt had managed to do to itself and the US over Ukraine.

Manic Moran

But those posters who stay silent on the abhorrent and egregious stuff he does and then post criticism of Democrats sometimes wonder why they get the reaction they do. Well, now you know. Maybe if you spoke up when the "send them back" chants happened, or when he told one of the 13,000 lies, people would view you as being balanced and fair. If you've a problem with that, maybe just don't complain when they don't.

Unwittingly, you have just demonstrated part of the problem. As many here have doubtless observed, I am not averse to speaking in opposition to, or at least providing another viewpoint, the default groupthink of this thread, leading some to consider me a Trump supporter, though I have repeatedly stated I am not and never have been. I have similarly posted several times in the past that I don't see any great point in posting on some issues I agree with you on since you guys are doing a well enough job of it. I don't see many people on this thread condemning similar actions on the Democrat side, presumably they are happy enough that I do so.

Try an experiment. Remember the gerrymandering issue that went to the Supreme Court a few months ago? Go back to the Trump Thread V, do a search for Gerrymandering, gerrymandered, etc. You get quite a few results as that is when Rucho was decided, but I note that your name does not seem to be one of them. Am I to assume from your silence that you support gerrymandering? It's not as if you weren't active on the thread, just searching for "posts by everlast75" gives me 61 pages of results!

Let's go one stage further: The first paragraph of the Supreme Court decision states "The North Carolina plaintiffs claimed that the State’s districting plan discriminated against Democrats, while the Maryland plaintiffs claimed that their State’s plan discriminated against Republicans". Now, go back to your search results, and add the word "Maryland". Not one word from any person here about gerrymandering in Maryland by Democrats, despite the fact that it reached SCOTUS. Bad Republicans are bad. Bad Democrats... well, we'll just leave it to folks like Manic to point that out, after all, he's not with us and we can keep our focus on the opposition and it's a convenient excuse to denegrate him because he's pointing it out. Despite my condemning gerrymandering on both sides.

Apparently, though, to be credible I am to be obligated to post on every single thing, even if it's redundant because it's already well covered. This seems very similar to a sort of required virtue signalling. I certainly don't object to what you said on the 'send her back' matter, and did not post anything in opposition. It's almost like required virtue-signalling.

To expand to other posts. "The Republicans started it" or "The Republicans are worse" may be true. I've seen this on matters varying from gerrymandering to supreme court nominations. Did "But he did it first!" ever work after an admonishment from your dad when you were growing up after a playground argument? It's irrelevant. Spilt milk. Sunken costs. Whatever you want to call it. The bottom line is that it exists, and should be unacceptable, either initially or in response. And the reality is that it exists on both sides. A refusal to accept this is part of the problem creating the partisanship we suffer from in the US.

The bottom line, folks here have correctly observed that a number of Republican supporters would rather vote Russian than Democrat. Few seem as eager to remember that there is a fierce anti-Republican camp on the Democrat side who equally don't give a damn about anything except to prevent Republicans from winning.

As for my being 'fair and balanced', I never claimed to be such. I'm a moderate (At least, by US Standards). I'm as biased and adamant in my opinions as a moderate as a staunch Democrat is to theirs, or Republican to theirs. There are places where I disagree with this thread, and say so. There are places where I agree with the thread, and feel no need to say so, because it's already been said.