Water John wrote: » With suggestions like, making Farage their EU Commissioner, they are really into Trump territory.
And yesterday, Britain’s former EU Commissioner Lord Hill said that the major roadblock to a deal was Dublin and compromise before the end of the month was a ‘stretch’. The Brussels expert told the BBC: ‘I spoke to an EU ambassador who said: “We don’t understand what the backstop is, we don’t care about the backstop, we would be perfectly happy for the Irish to drop it, but so long as they want it, we’re with the Irish,” and that’s the conundrum.’
Downing Street said Mr Johnson will ‘continue to hit the phones’ over the coming days and ‘remains open to meetings with EU leaders’. Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay will travel to the Netherlands for talks later today. Mr Johnson’s chief negotiator David Frost is expected to return to Brussels tomorrow and his chief of staff, Sir Edward Lister, will travel to Dublin to try to persuade the Irish Government to drop their opposition.
Ludo wrote: » GAWD...didn't even think of that. Assumed he would go to London after BJ came to Dublin last time but yeah...not a good historical look to go to London now.
Stop moaning ffs wrote: » threeball wrote: » Isn't that exactly what Johnson wants. If there's no extension it's a default no deal so the hard line Tories get what they want and the EU are the bad boys. In a crash out scenario post 31st, Blame the Eu has a very limited shelf life. Pun intended. When job losses food shortages and rocketing prices hit home for the entire population of U.K. not just the rabid brexiters, media and public anger will switch their focus to Westminster and all involved. And following from that back to the table in a far weaker position and swallowing the WA like it or not.
threeball wrote: » Isn't that exactly what Johnson wants. If there's no extension it's a default no deal so the hard line Tories get what they want and the EU are the bad boys.
prawnsambo wrote: » It's kind of ironic that 'no deal is better than a bad deal' is turning out to be much more appropriate to us than the UK.
Irish Praetorian wrote: » Why are mainland France and Corsica shown in two distinct colours and why is Malta not colourized?
threeball wrote: » Boris and his buddies won't give a flying f#@k at that stage. They'll have their money made. Any which way this will end up back on westministers lap anyway.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » Daily Mail tomorrow saying Geoffrey Cox will resign if Boris Johnson does not ask for an extension. Also seen this snippet in the Daily Mail article And yesterday, Britain’s former EU Commissioner Lord Hill said that the major roadblock to a deal was Dublin and compromise before the end of the month was a ‘stretch’. The Brussels expert told the BBC: ‘I spoke to an EU ambassador who said: “We don’t understand what the backstop is, we don’t care about the backstop, we would be perfectly happy for the Irish to drop it, but so long as they want it, we’re with the Irish,” and that’s the conundrum.’ But I thought Ireland was a patsy for Brussels?
prawnsambo wrote: » I'd be very surprised if an EU ambassador said that. Makes no sense that they wouldn't know what the backstop was or was for. Even at the very basic level, it's perfectly clear what it's about. Like an EU ambassador wouldn't understand what open borders are like. I'd be more inclined to believe it was Daily Mail making stuff up again.
MrMusician18 wrote: » It's a great example of a misleading graphic. The colours are banded in 0.5% until the upper band which is 2.5-9.6%
Atlantic Dawn wrote: » I still can't believe how well the EU are treating Ireland, I was expecting us to be stabbed in the back a long time ago.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » It says he told the BBC
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » I take it Boris will be summoned to Dublin again? We can't be seen going over there anymore :pac:
maebee wrote: » With respect, why would a club stab in the back a fully committed member?
prawnsambo wrote: » I'd be very surprised if an EU ambassador said that. Makes no sense that they wouldn't know what the backstop was or was for.
threeball wrote: » This is in their interest too. You either have unity or you have no union. On top of that there's no way they want the UK undercutting member nations whilst getting the benefits of favourable trade terms. That can not and will not happen.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » fash wrote: » https://twitter.com/castlvillageman/status/1180552966190895109 Sometimes cryptic, but an interesting tweeter, this is an interesting piece of information on the CTA and the memorandum of understanding that the UK recently signed in relation thereto I said this months a go that this would be Britain's last card. People did not believe me then but I still expect a threat to come in this direction. I don't think the CTA matters all that much nowadays anyway. May as well join schengen.
fash wrote: » https://twitter.com/castlvillageman/status/1180552966190895109 Sometimes cryptic, but an interesting tweeter, this is an interesting piece of information on the CTA and the memorandum of understanding that the UK recently signed in relation thereto
CelticRambler wrote: » Maybe worth remembering that the UK proposed effectively scrapping the CTA in their Borders, Citizenship and Immigration Bill 2009. Ultimately, the proposition had to be revised because one section of the community in one of the constituent countries of the UK feared that they would be asked to show their passports when crossing the Irish Sea, something that would have made them feel less British than the British with whom they identify ... That tail has been wagging the dog of British politics for a long time. :pac:
The high horse brigade wrote: » We should just let them leave without a deal. They'll be back within a week grovelling and we'll insist on the withdrawal agreement
Stop moaning ffs wrote: » That’s all kinds of bitterly delicious. Didn’t know that happened. Thanks.
This British border within the UK ... is problematic for the idea of a UK border that is coterminous with the UK state. These factors support Rose's claim that Great Britain is the de facto state and its borders are "fuzzy".
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: » In such a scenario we probably cross the rubicon to where we're no longer talking about a backstop to solve the checks issue - we're talking about a border poll.
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: » I keep hearing this said and I think it's a misguided assumption. Whether we like it or not, most Brexiters perceive Brexit as their version of an independence struggle. ... In such a scenario we probably cross the rubicon to where we're no longer talking about a backstop to solve the checks issue - we're talking about a border poll.
MrMusician18 wrote: » maebee wrote: » With respect, why would a club stab in the back a fully committed member? That wasn't necessarily a given. One only has to look at migration and debt crises to see that sometimes solidarity can be in short supply. The solidarity Ireland has built on this issue is in no small part due to the work of the diplomatic service.
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: » The high horse brigade wrote: » We should just let them leave without a deal. They'll be back within a week grovelling and we'll insist on the withdrawal agreement I keep hearing this said and I think it's a misguided assumption. Whether we like it or not, most Brexiters perceive Brexit as their version of an independence struggle. And if we look at our own history, whenever Ireland suffered economic hardship in the early decades of independence it did not result in the Irish electorate demanding policy changes from those in charge. On the contrary, when de Valera went through the economic war with Britain in the 30s, and resisted calls from the UK and US to break the neutrality stance during WW2, far from it harming his popularity with the public, it actually greatly increased it - despite both being positions which resulted in economic difficulty for people. The idea that Brexiters, many of whom like Mark Francois are invested in a WW2-style fantasy of Britain vs the baddies of Europe, are going to suddenly say in the face of economic difficulty, 'I got this all wrong. I'm going to now lobby the government to do a u-turn' I think is way off the mark. Those who were for Brexit will continue to be for it in a No Deal scenaro. Perhaps they will be even more fanatical about it. The pro-Remain camp imo are more likely to question what they will do next because in a No Deal scenario, you'll now have a split between those who presumably redefine themselves as 'Rejoiners' - beginning a campaign of rejoining the EU - and those who become so disillusioned and fed up that they were unable to prevent Brexit happening that they just disengage completely. The Scots meanwhile will likely mould their anger into renewed calls for independence, which would split them off on to a different path from those in England who wish to be part of the EU. With all this going on in a divided UK, under their FPTP system, as long as Johnson retains the Brexiter support and support for Corbyn remains low, Johnson may well be able to ride out the economic difficulties as he lives out his Churchillian fantasy. Philippe Lamberts hit the nail on the head a few days ago when he described Johnson's mindset:https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1179875679761920000 Don't underestimate the millions of British that will lap this up. I don't buy this notion that the British public will be begging for a rethink shortly afterwards. On the contrary, attitudes may even harden if Johnson is successful in portraying the EU as a vindictive and intransigent bully. I wouldn't hold my breath on the UK media challenging such a narrative - many of them will be complicit in writing it. From our point of view, if the British public enthusiastically embraces a No Deal policy via a general election, and Johnson wins a strong majority, there is little prospect of Ireland avoiding checks any time soon. I suspect in such a No Deal scenario we'd be looking at years of a painful stalemate, with Anglo-Irish relations reaching lows not seen in modern times. In such a scenario we probably cross the rubicon to where we're no longer talking about a backstop to solve the checks issue - we're talking about a border poll.
Mr.Nice Guy wrote: » I keep hearing this said and I think it's a misguided assumption. Whether we like it or not, most Brexiters perceive Brexit as their version of an independence struggle. And if we look at our own history, whenever Ireland suffered economic hardship in the early decades of independence it did not result in the Irish electorate demanding policy changes from those in charge. On the contrary, when de Valera went through the economic war with Britain in the 30s, and resisted calls from the UK and US to break the neutrality stance during WW2, far from it harming his popularity with the public, it actually greatly increased it - despite both being positions which resulted in economic difficulty for people. The idea that Brexiters, many of whom like Mark Francois are invested in a WW2-style fantasy of Britain vs the baddies of Europe, are going to suddenly say in the face of economic difficulty, 'I got this all wrong. I'm going to now lobby the government to do a u-turn' I think is way off the mark. Those who were for Brexit will continue to be for it in a No Deal scenaro. Perhaps they will be even more fanatical about it. The pro-Remain camp imo are more likely to question what they will do next because in a No Deal scenario, you'll now have a split between those who presumably redefine themselves as 'Rejoiners' - beginning a campaign of rejoining the EU - and those who become so disillusioned and fed up that they were unable to prevent Brexit happening that they just disengage completely. The Scots meanwhile will likely mould their anger into renewed calls for independence, which would split them off on to a different path from those in England who wish to be part of the EU. With all this going on in a divided UK, under their FPTP system, as long as Johnson retains the Brexiter support and support for Corbyn remains low, Johnson may well be able to ride out the economic difficulties as he lives out his Churchillian fantasy. Philippe Lamberts hit the nail on the head a few days ago when he described Johnson's mindset:https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1179875679761920000 Don't underestimate the millions of British that will lap this up. I don't buy this notion that the British public will be begging for a rethink shortly afterwards. On the contrary, attitudes may even harden if Johnson is successful in portraying the EU as a vindictive and intransigent bully. I wouldn't hold my breath on the UK media challenging such a narrative - many of them will be complicit in writing it. From our point of view, if the British public enthusiastically embraces a No Deal policy via a general election, and Johnson wins a strong majority, there is little prospect of Ireland avoiding checks any time soon. I suspect in such a No Deal scenario we'd be looking at years of a painful stalemate, with Anglo-Irish relations reaching lows not seen in modern times. In such a scenario we probably cross the rubicon to where we're no longer talking about a backstop to solve the checks issue - we're talking about a border poll.
