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Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Quin_Dub

The continuing discussion of the Donald Trump Presidency.

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Overheal

What diatribe I get from my Rep on a given day :rolleyes:

I like how he calls it COLLUSION for a whistleblower to contact a congressional intelligence committee (see my above picture - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=492114&stc=1&d=1570051280)

I like how he says ' think for yourself ignore the MSM spin ' - then he spins, and embellishes with supposition and personal hypothetical

Congressman Jeff Duncan
24 mins ·
Have you read the Transcript of the phone call between President Trump and Ukrainian President Zelensky? If you haven’t, I am providing (once again) the link. Please do. Educate yourself on exactly what was said and, more importantly, what was not said. There was no mention of U.S. foreign or military aid. There was mention of the Europeans not doing enough for Ukraine. There was no mention of, as the Left and the MSM would have you believe, Ukraine digging up more dirt on Joe Biden’s son in exchange for U.S. aid.

In fact, Ukraine President Zelensky mentioned investigations and corruption first:

Page 3: President Zelensky says: “I guarantee that as President of Ukraine that all of the investigations will be done openly and candidly. That I can assure you.”

It is at this point that President Trump mentions a prosecutor:

President Trump: “Good because I heard you had a prosecutor who was very good and he was shut down and that’s really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved.”

In the late 1990s, President Bill Clinton signed an Anti-Corruption Treaty between the U.S. and Ukraine. What President Trump and President Zelensky are speaking of is corruption and the investigation of corruption.

It has now been revealed that former VPOTUS Joe Biden (even by his own admission) used the power of his office to withhold foreign/military aid from Ukraine until the aforementioned prosecutor was removed from investigating Hunter Biden, Joe’s son. It took all of six hours. Six hours.

But read the transcript for yourself. You will not find any impeachable offenses on the part of President Trump. No “There There” as they say in Washington.

What you will see, what I believe is the thing that has the Democrats so panicked over this, is the reference to CrowdStrike – the group who “looked at and into” the DNC server supposedly “hacked” by a foreign government (Russia) and released incriminating emails on Hilary Clinton. The FBI NEVER NEVER NEVER looked at the server or ran any forensic analysis on it – instead relying on independent contractor, CrowdStrike, to do so.

I believe that is why President Trump and his team wanted to put this conversation on a secure White House server. To protect the reference to Ukraine’s help on the server and CrowdStrike from being learned about by the Deep State operatives still working against this President inside the U.S. Government. And just look at how they ARE working! Whistleblower collusion with House Intelligence Committee and others.

You be the judge – but be educated. Read things for yourselves versus taking a spin from MSM and others.

GM228

https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1179768742101897217?s=19

Trump was this morning calling on foreign leaders to investigate Biden in the midst of impeachment proceeding about...

... whether he has encouraged foreign leaders to investigate Biden

Overheal

He should have had a surrogate make such a call.

This looks bad: here he is again calling for an investigation into his presumptive opponent, to be conducted by China, for which clearly he stands to gain, under the weight of a massive Trade War with China where Trump can decide whether to impose new tariffs or relieve existing ones either implicitly or explicitly for cooperation.

duploelabs

Penn wrote: »

Pretty sure the Volker one at least is a closed hearing.

Volker testified today
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49924579

Dohnjoe

GM228 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/owillis/status/1179768742101897217?s=19

Trump was this morning calling on foreign leaders to investigate Biden in the midst of impeachment proceeding about...

... whether he has encouraged foreign leaders to investigate Biden

Possibly it's a tactic to diminish the claims - but indeed if it's a direct request to get foreign leaders to investigate his political rival, then sure that's another serious breach

Overheal

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Possibly it's a tactic to diminish the claims - but indeed if it's a direct request to get foreign leaders to investigate his political rival, then sure that's another serious breach

He will argue it wasn't direct. 'I haven't asked them.' But this is another "Russia if you're listening" moment. More than that he's pressuring a foreign country to give him something of value under the threat of trade war action.

amandstu

If he can establish that Hunter Biden may have sneezed sideways somewhere in Sechuan he can ask "What was Joe Biden doing? What is he hiding"

Overheal

amandstu wrote: »

If he can establish that Hunter Biden may have sneezed sideways somewhere in Sechuan he can ask "What was Joe Biden doing? What is he hiding"

Sure, Obama could ask, "What is John McCain hiding" but it's another thing for him to say "What is John McCain hiding - the Chinese government/communist party should investigate; they get so much trade advantage over the US"

Dohnjoe

Overheal wrote: »

He will argue it wasn't direct. 'I haven't asked them.' But this is another "Russia if you're listening" moment. More than that he's pressuring a foreign country to give him something of value under the threat of trade war action.

Ah yes, there's no quid pro quo in the tweet

amandstu

For a US president to ask a (totalitarian and unaccountable) Chinese government for help in the "investigation" of any US citizen seems entirely reprehensible.

Can this really be true?

mcmoustache

This doesn't seem like a good strategy but maybe it's the only one available to him?

He is clearly taking this to the court of public opinion because this would not win in a court of law. The problem is that this kind of stuff is getting harder and harder to defend. He could get away with a lot if he could keep his and Giuliani's trap shut but they can't help themselves.

The thing is, this is only going to get crazier. It's not like he can moderate or even control himself.

Overheal

amandstu wrote: »

For a US president to ask a (totalitarian and unaccountable) Chinese government for help in the "investigation" of any US citizen seems entirely reprehensible.

Can this really be true?

He said it on the WH lawn to reporters. The cameras were rolling.

Overheal

GOP letter from back in the Feb 2016 era shows the GOP on the same page as Biden about Ukraine

https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/portman-durbin-shaheen-and-senate-ukraine-caucus-reaffirm-commitment-help

amandstu

What if China was to manufacture evidence that was to Trumps detriment?

They don't have an independent judiciary do they?

Professor Moriarty

amandstu wrote: »

What if China was to manufacture evidence that was to Trumps detriment?

They don't have an independent judiciary do they?

That's a very good point. It's what I'd do if I were them. I'd say I found it on a Huawei phone.

everlast75

mcmoustache wrote: »

This doesn't seem like a good strategy but maybe it's the only one available to him?

He is clearly taking this to the court of public opinion because this would not win in a court of law. The problem is that this kind of stuff is getting harder and harder to defend. He could get away with a lot if he could keep his and Giuliani's trap shut but they can't help themselves.

The thing is, this is only going to get crazier. It's not like he can moderate or even control himself.

He's adding and adding articles of impeachment.

He can bank on the Republicans not voting to convict in the Senate, but

1) details of his high crimes will affect the public
2) the Republicans can only defend him once the public do. As soon as he's toxic they will peel away. You already have Grassley saying that he supports the whistleblower, other reps saying they want to hear from the WB and even his energy secretary Rick Perry saying he will cooperate with the enquiry.

You also have Pence throwing Trump under the bus, Barr in self preservation mode, at least one more whistleblower, I.G.'s assisting, Rudy self destructing...

Can't see it ending well for Trump..

isohon

everlast75 wrote: »

Can't see it ending well for Trump..

I hope you are right.

BUT

I've said and hoped the same thing myself so many times and it all just gets forgotten that I think now my brain has attempted to inoculate itself by just assuming he will be President for life. And probably because there is no justice in this cruel world it will be a very long life.

Overheal

If Trump wants to defend his actions as lawful, it opens up every politician, every candidate, to call upon and pressure foreign governments to investigate and smear our personal/political enemies.

That’s not really the precedent Republicans want to set.

Gbear

Overheal wrote: »

If Trump wants to defend his actions as lawful, it opens up every politician, every candidate, to call upon and pressure foreign governments to investigate and smear our personal/political enemies.

That’s not really the precedent Republicans want to set.

Especially when they appear to be considerably more corrupt.

They want to be getting their brown envelopes quickly and quietly.

The fascism is mostly to enable their greed. I don't think there's quite enough who would burn the place down to be King of the ashes to go for that kind of suicide pact politics.

everlast75

Overheal wrote: »

If Trump wants to defend his actions as lawful, it opens up every politician, every candidate, to call upon and pressure foreign governments to investigate and smear our personal/political enemies.

That’s not really the precedent Republicans want to set.

Precisely.

And if he succeeds in having the courts rule that not only can he not be charged, he can't even be investigated, the next Dem Pres could (metaphorically) wipe them out.

What goes around comes around.

Btw - shout out to all those who took umbrage with certain posters here who said trump was a wannabe facist/dictator. Your silence speaks volumes.

isohon

Gbear wrote: »

Especially when they appear to be considerably more corrupt.

They want to be getting their brown envelopes quickly and quietly.

The fascism is mostly to enable their greed. I don't think there's quite enough who would burn the place down to be King of the ashes to go for that kind of suicide pact politics.

I feel like Scully here... I want to believe but I can't help but wonder if they haven't already sealed that faustian deal?

Lindsey Graham, May 2016:

“If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed … and we will deserve it.”

Gbear

everlast75 wrote: »

Precisely.

And if he succeeds in having the courts rule that not only can he not be charged, he can't even be investigated, the next Dem Pres could (metaphorically) wipe them out.

What goes around comes around.

Btw - shout out to all those who took umbrage with certain posters here who said trump was a wannabe facist/dictator. Your silence speaks volumes.

They know that they can always go further than the Dems can. To a certain extent, as we saw with Clinton getting away with perjury, the Democrats aren't totally above partisanship to the point of value-driven purity, but they will always blink far, far sooner than the Republicans.

It's not a sense of true belief in the process that holds Republicans back from this kind of Pyrrhic victory to control the US, but that the kind of politics of theirs that is based not on beliefs or values, but first and foremost identity, is particularly likely to attract shysters who are specifically involved for their own enrichment, rather than ideologues who would be happy to sacrifice the short term, material goals of themselves and the party.

The Republicans could always win a race to the bottom. They just don't want to, because that really would involve way too much personal work, for too little personal material reward.

Thank God most of this po-faced piety they display is total bull****, because otherwise the world would be in a lot of trouble.

pixelburp

So, have any of the GOP high priests come out yet? The defence so far seems to be the wingnuts like Jim Jordan or Giuliani, or else hawks on Fox - has McConnell, for instance, given his two cents on the issue? I might just be missing the articles but it feels like the senior members of the Rep party are keeping their heads down, and their powder dry. If so, then that in of itself could be telling as to the severity of the issue.

26000 Elephants

amandstu wrote: »

What if China was to manufacture evidence that was to Trumps detriment?

They don't have an independent judiciary do they?

I think they will find that market is already saturated by Trumps staffers, they wouldn't be able to compete!

I mean, lets be realistic here We are in a reality where CNN has to use a 'fact check' box on screen to clarify that everything the President of the United States has just said is bu**sh1t

I don't think the Chinese will bother ;-(

Overheal

Heck its more likely the Chinese would throw Trump under the bus

Overheal

pixelburp wrote: »

So, have any of the GOP high priests come out yet? The defence so far seems to be the wingnuts like Jim Jordan or Giuliani, or else hawks on Fox - has McConnell, for instance, given his two cents on the issue? I might just be missing the articles but it feels like the senior members of the Rep party are keeping their heads down, and their powder dry. If so, then that in of itself could be telling as to the severity of the issue.

Most I've seen so far tbh is him demurring that yes the senate will have to take up a trial if articles of impeachment are introduced and passed in the house. Senate rules can't be changed about this without a 2/3rd majority. Only 4 GOP senators need to side with Senate democrats to prevent a simple majority vote from killing such a trial procedurally.

aloyisious

Rudy may be Don's undoing, if any of the texts he released showing him chatting with Kurt can be checked to see what Kurt texted in response. Don and Mike may have wished to claim presidential prerogative on what text and other conversations could show Kurt & Rudy were doing but Rudy has blown that by publicly revealing some of them.

It's likely that he's given the committees an open door as well as the texts are now in the public domain free of any attempt by Don to put "top secret" classification on them, putting any other texts between R & K reachable without legal hindrance from people they might harm.

Overheal

Volker says he warned Guliani that misconduct accusations against biden were not credible https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/this-is-when-the-inquiry-gets-real-former-us-special-envoy-to-ukraine-testifies-in-impeachment-probe-today/2019/10/03/51365c1b-5a01-4e44-872a-299b67949a5e_story.html

everlast75

An update on that other whistleblower....

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1179856151623733252?s=19

Interestingly, Grassley, self proclaimed WB champion, has had the complaint for a number of months. Curious to know what he did with it

Overheal

Treasury IG won’t confirm or deny WB complaint (as is tradition, they’re not really supposed to outside of normal channels) but the complaint is seen mentioned in existing paperwork

However the IRS whistleblower separately already confirmed to WaPo that he (it is a he according to WaPo) filed the complaint to both the House and senate tax chairs (Grassley being one of the two) over “inappropriate efforts to influence” the presidential audit - which is mandated by law for any US President (and several other federal officers) to be audited annually without exception.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/treasury-inspector-generals-office-refuses-to-confirm-or-deny-existence-of-irs-whistleblower-complaint/