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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Quin_Dub

This is the eleventh incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread,

Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
Insults directed at popular figures are not acceptable in this forum
Please do not post memes, videos or comedy links here
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lawred2

Sparko wrote: »

Arlene Foster accuses Ireland of being intransigent, among other things.

https://twitter.com/DUPleader/status/1179775945311490048?s=19

the sheer irony of the "Ulster says No" troupe accusing others of intransigence

would this lot ever just set up a commune on some forsaken rock and leave the rest of us alone...

Strazdas

54and56 wrote: »

I dismissed the other headlines as being the usual factless fodder they serve up to their readers (which I think might be a misuse of the word) but I'm curious if you know whether the Telegraph are quoting any source for or statement Leo make about Britain wanting to stay in the EU? Have they now started trawling statement like the "five options" I quoted above and given themselves licence to re-arrange the words he actually said into what they wished he'd said?

They've seized on his Point No.3.

Personally, I think he's playing a blinder.....referring to the opinion polls that show a majority of Britons don't want Brexit is something the English nationalists and the right wing press are trying to totally ignore and edit out of the narrative.

spacecoyote

Winters wrote: »

Would it make more sense if England and Wales just left the UK?

Scotland wouldn't have to reapply for the EU then...

Haven't opinion polls shifted in Wales now too to be pro-remain?

So basically its England wants to leave the EU & everyone else in the UK is being dragged along with them

BorneTobyWilde

Vote of no confidence is only hope now.

J Mysterio

Fintan O’Toole: Boris has destroyed what is left of UK’s credibility
British government has broken its own solemn legal and political commitments

It's tough talking, but it's bloody true.
We have to be straight with them.

When Boris Johnson described his long-awaited proposals for changes to the Brexit withdrawal treaty as a compromise, he was not wrong. Two questions arise, however. What is being compromised? And who is Johnson compromising with?

The answer to the second is obvious: the proposals are a compromise, not with the EU, but with the DUP. And what is being compromised is the credibility of the UK as a partner in any international negotiations.

Though the EU and the Irish government are too polite to say so directly, Johnson’s plan destroys any remaining sense that the current regime in London is capable of sticking even to its own self-declared principles.

joe40

lawred2 wrote: »

the sheer irony of the "Ulster says No" troupe accusing others of intransigence

would this lot ever just set up a commune on some forsaken rock and leave the rest of us alone...

If Brexit was something that was forced upon the DUP I would have a certain sympathy for them. Identity is important not always about economics.

But the thing is they campaigned for this s**tstorm both in the north and in Britain.
They knew the northern Ireland situation better than the average British voter, even better than the average British politician.
They own this situation so sympathy is now in short supply.
I hope unionism in the north realise the damage the DUP have helped cause. Probably not though.

Professor Moriarty

lawred2 wrote: »

the sheer irony of the "Ulster says No" troupe accusing others of intransigence

would this lot ever just set up a commune on some forsaken rock and leave the rest of us alone...

It could be argued that they did this 400 years ago.

lawred2

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

It could be argued that they did this 400 years ago.

Well is there another rock somewhere in the empire where a few allotments could be allocated to these sons of orange?

Any room in the Falklands?

prawnsambo

lawred2 wrote: »

Well is there another rock somewhere in the empire where a few allotments could be allocated to these sons of orange?

Any room in the Falklands?

Rockall could come in useful at last.

Enzokk

lawred2 wrote: »

what deal?

This twitter thread seems to sum it all up right now,

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1179734820102066185?s=20

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1179740421574017024?s=20

Basically Johnson has negotiated a deal with the DUP and the ERG. He doesn't have a majority to get the deal through parliament, and more importantly he doesn't even have a deal with the EU.

Mr.Nice Guy

Was listening to the Stephen Nolan show earlier and some of the unionist callers were off their rocker. One chap saying 'they're trying to starve us into a united Ireland' and how he's not laying down. Another caller later also making references to violence if there's a border down the sea. The DUP have really whipped loyalists into a frenzy over this sea border, and the party themselves were on the receiving end of a lot of criticism from those who think they're being sold out by these proposals of single market membership. The UUP and Jim Allister have been very critical, while the nationalist parties and business community are all vehemently against it.

Hard to see the DUP making much more of a defence of this in the coming days as there is a backlash far greater than I bet they bargained for. They must be very uncomfortable right now and I wouldn't be surprised if they soon throw their toys out of the pram and look for a scapegoat to get them off the hook. Wouldn't surprise me if they soon issue a statement saying they can no longer recommend the current ideas due to the Irish government's intransigence, or some such desperate nonsense.

dePeatrick

Have seen a few posters asking about the Benn act, here is one take on it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/boris-johnson-brexit-parliament-supreme-court-general-election-a9120391.html

Stop the PM from wriggling out of the “Benn” Act

The Benn Act passed this month requires Johnson to ask the EU for three months’ extra time if he hasn’t got a deal by 19 October. Unfortunately, it has a few loopholes.

One is that the prime minister doesn’t have to ask for a delay if MPs have already passed a resolution agreeing to leave with a deal (see 1(1)(a)). The snag is that to leave with a deal, parliament would also need to pass a law ratifying the agreement – not just pass a resolution. This government is so tricksy that it could go on strike if a resolution passed and refuse to push through the required law – with the result that we would crash out.

Another loophole would occur if Johnson asked for extra time and then did a deal. If MPs approved the deal, he could go back to the EU and withdraw his request for extra time – and again we’d crash out. (See 1(5)).

Yet another weakness is that the Benn Act is silent on what happens if the prime minister refuses to ask for a delay. What if Johnson is prepared to go to prison rather than send the required letter? The courts may instruct somebody else to do so on his behalf. But, if not, we might be heading for the abyss.

So a top priority for Labour and the other opposition MPs is to pass emergency legislation closing these loopholes. To do so, they will need to grab control of the parliamentary timetable, probably next week.

An Ciarraioch

Can just imagine Eoghan Harris's Sunday Independent column this weekend, though - something along the lines that the government must recognise the DUP's "courage" in moving to regulatory alignment, throwing in references to Michael Collins and Wolfe Tone, before recommending acceptance on the grounds that half a deal is better than none.

Capt'n Midnight

J Mysterio wrote: »

By glutinous emollience he means he will be very soothing and comforting.

It's distracting crap. Those words don't even work together.

Are you sure it wasn't gluteus emoluments ?

Zubeneschamali

quokula wrote: »

It seems to imply that if Boris doesn't comply with the Benn act then parliament would step in and force revoke. I don't understand why parliament could force that but couldn't force an extension?

Suppose Boris just says I'm not obeying the law, instead I am launching a court challenge to the Constitutionality of the law. He pulls some sort of delaying stunt - maybe he prorogues parliament for a week for a queens speech.

Or maybe he requests and extension and the EU says no.

It ends up No Deal vs. No Brexit, MPs would have to pick No Brexit.

That's what all the 2nd Referendum talk means anyway - it means Revoke but cover my arse.

dePeatrick

Anyone else listening to Farage on LBC? Cork caller says how he thinks the UK are only great to leave the EU and generally licking his ass....puke:mad:

J Mysterio

Sturgeon

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1179785839682957312

J Mysterio

dePeatrick wrote: »

Anyone else listening to Farage on LBC? Cork caller says how he thinks the UK are only great to leave the EU and generally licking his ass....puke:mad:

There's always one.

Professor Genius

dePeatrick wrote: »

Anyone else listening to Farage on LBC? Cork caller says how he thinks the UK are only great to leave the EU and generally licking his ass....puke:mad:

It’s like irexit flys to the Farage cowpat

J Mysterio

Sorry for tweetfest, but this one is pretty explosive. Good on him.

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1179788329224679424

briany

Sounds like this Simon Byrne mightn't last much longer as Chief Constable of the PSNI.

Professor Moriarty

A new YouGov poll:

If Johnson doesn't get a a deal:
Another referndum: 52%
MPs should decide: 22%
Don't know 25%

If Johnson does get a deal:
Another referendum: 47%
MPs decide: 29%
Don't know: 24%

Tea Shock

dePeatrick wrote: »

Anyone else listening to Farage on LBC? Cork caller says how he thinks the UK are only great to leave the EU and generally licking his ass....puke:mad:

The YouTube comments were absolutely loving it - especially when he went on his rant about weak little Ireland compared to great great Britain

Almost everyone who calls into that show is an arse licker though. Irish or not!

prawnsambo

briany wrote: »

Sounds like this Simon Byrne mightn't last much longer as Chief Constable of the PSNI.

Sounds like he doesn't want to. Certainly not if the pig's dinner that Johnson calls a proposal ever came to fruition. In fact pretty much in any scenario bar a revocation.

Capt'n Midnight

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

As David McWilliams pointed out today, who the **** is going to invest in a country where the trading rules can change in four years? Whole thing is a disaster for NI.

And customs issues for stuff crossing North / South
And regulatory issues for stuff heading across the Irish Sea.
And checks on North / South in case non EU compliant stuff from GB gets in through NI.
And there'll have no southern comfort with US tariffs on NI whiskey, but not ours.
And because NI will have to follow EU rules and the checks on imports, businesses there will be at a disadvantage in the GB market compared to GB firms.

54and56

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Can just imagine Eoghan Harris's Sunday Independent column this weekend, though - something along the lines that the government must recognise the DUP's "courage" in moving to regulatory alignment, throwing in references to Michael Collins and Wolfe Tone, before recommending acceptance on the grounds that half a deal is better than none.

Along these lines Lucinda Creighton was just interviewed on Sky, I almost muted it as her previous pronouncements getting digs into Leo & co for being undemocratic and backing Ireland into a corner etc etc but in fairness she basically said the new proposals just won't work and actually can't work legally either i.e. turning a blind eye on tariffs for SME's.

I was pleasantly surprised.

gooch2k9

RTE's reporting of DUP comments on "Boris' deal".

Article.

"There will be no return to the flawed backstop. We will leave the EU, Customs Union and single market alongside the rest of the United Kingdom."

Earlier, DUP deputy leader Nigel Dodds indicated that in a working Assembly unionists would have a veto on the issue.

Why waste breath on the proposals? They have brazenly come out and said that it's a unionist veto and they intend to trigger it before the end of the transition period.

No deal is better than that for ROI/EU.

54and56

Tea Shock wrote: »

The YouTube comments were absolutely loving it - especially when he went on his rant about weak little Ireland compared to great great Britain

Almost everyone who calls into that show is an arse licker though. Irish or not!

Another person who got kicked in the head by a donkey?? :P

NotToScale

briany wrote: »

Sounds like this Simon Byrne mightn't last much longer as Chief Constable of the PSNI.

Oddly enough, that's unlikely as he's appointed by the Policing Board of Northern Ireland. The PSNI is quite heavily reformed in structure and accountability, due to the peace process and the history of issues in Northern Ireland. So they're fairly independent of anything Boris might want to do.

It sounds like he could well be facing what amounts to a police service strike in NI if this goes ahead in terms of some kind of work to rule where they will just not participate.

jimmycrackcorm

spacecoyote wrote: »

Haven't opinion polls shifted in Wales now too to be pro-remain?

So basically its England wants to leave the EU & everyone else in the UK is being dragged along with them

JRB said live in TV, that he didn't support the idea of another referendum as people wouldn't vote for BREXIT again.