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Waterford GAA thread - mod warning post #1 and #51

IanVW

New thread ladsðŸ˜ŠðŸ˜Š Any update on injuries for this weekends game?

Mod edit: Given how the last thread descended into chaos, we are going to leave that closed and start afresh

Welcome to the Waterford GAA discussion thread.

This is consistently the most active thread don the GAA forum. As a result, discussion can get quite heated. But there are certain things posters must realise are simply not OK to post:

- Personal abuse of anyone be they other posters, players, managers, referees, pundits etc. Any personal abuse will result in an infraction or a ban.

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This list is not exhaustive. Either myself or another mod may add to this as we see fit. Just because a certain behaviour isn't listed, doesn't mean you can't be banned for it. The general Boards.ie rule of Don't be a Dick always applies.

If you feel a post breaks the rules, simply click this underneath the post in question to report the post and a mod will deal with it as they see fit.

So be civil to each other and happy posting.

Given that the thread regularly descending into tit for tat insults between posters, From now on, it won't be a card but a ban straight away for anything like this. The mod warning is clear in the first post but yet people still ignore it.
Also, I'd like to remind people of the ban on discussing players'/managers'/officials' private lives without any substance. You can be getting into libelous territory there. So a zero tolerance policy will be enforced as well.

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Giveitfong

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Can anyone name an outside manager before Gerald McCarthy?
I'm not as old as the rest of ye and just wondering!

Joe McGrath from County Down (but based in Ennis) did two shortish stints in charge of Waterford around 1980 and 1990. He was a great motivator (he got Jim Greene to lose three stone weight which led him to getting an All Star) and his teams were always competitive (although very unlucky - they lost to Clare by a freak goal in 1981 and to Cork in 1990 or 1991 by another flukey goal). However, he didn't see eye to eye with people in the County Board who got rid of him prematurely on both occasions. The second time they replaced him with Georgie Leahy, who was probably the worst manager Waterford ever had. He was from Danesfort. I met a woman once who was from there and when I mentioned Leahy to her she spat out "that useless yoke!". They should have interviewed her before they appointed him!

thesultan

thesaturdayman wrote: »

probably need to write off the league, imagine therell be a lot of trial and error, doubt this manager will be trying to hit the high notes in the league as he has nothing to prove to us. Fanning was probably under pressure from the off and needed a good league (and got it!) but evidently the league and champ are going further and further apart in terms of relevance.

for me the big thing jumps out (and its not a dig) is the county board cramming fixtures into "club month" in April. should leave the dam thing free for county imo!

looking at last 2 years disastrous, only commonality is the purge of fixtures JB, TDB all playing 4 weekends in a row for eg!

Disagree with you on the fixtures. You have to give the club player fixtures. Look at this year Tipperary called them off but the previous year Limerick didn't.

tommylad1212

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

Can anyone name an outside manager before Gerald McCarthy?
I'm not as old as the rest of ye and just wondering!

George lahey

[Deleted User]

Can anyone name an outside manager before Gerald McCarthy?
I'm not as old as the rest of ye and just wondering!

Lingoweet913

You might be cutting it a bit tight with dual clubs but it's certainly on the right track. Would probably have top 3 in league and cup winner through to QF, or at least put into "Pot A" if there was to be a draw. Not sure of the structure of Championship but could be worked on.

> This will add a bit of spice as every club will want to win the money.

Small thing, I think although clubs care, players don't as much.

> 100 % agree on the championship format, their needs to be a cut throat attitude towards it, at the moment everyone is a winner and supporters could nt be bothered, just look at the attendances.

Yep, the current systems are basically seeding anyway just let the league take care of that.

> Change the regrade rule also, out of date, particularly in football (black card rule means more players used) to allow players to come on as a Sub in 2 senior games / Start 1 senior game.

Because it's a separate league and not championship I don't think it'd interfere with regrade, which would be important because there would be a lot of junior players playing while county lads are away

thesaturdayman

Would keep “playing for money” out of it, non monetary but of monetary value like a voucher for hotel in Killarney that lads can go on a night away with.....

Re walkovers, issue I know too well, most of these are forced on clubs due to terrible scheduling / scheduling changes, no long term planning view & finally clubs being made compete against other clubs based on geography and not ability.

Group teams based on ability with competitive games regardless of geography or standard & there will be less walkovers.

willbeuptuesday

Excellent proposal, we need to bring back meaningful leagues for club players. My suggestions would add to this proposal:
1. Top two in each league qualify for a league final for that Division. The top placed team have home advantage (reward for being most consistent) and the second placed team play them for a cash prize (this is generated from the gate receipts of the final and the prize is split 70:30 the winner taking 70%) The county board should do the gate (ie. Collect the money and for those who don't believe that they won't hand it over, this is money they never had so it won't be an issue). This will add a bit of spice as every club will want to win the money.
2. County players can join the league once Waterford are out, this will improve the standard.
3. Any team who gives a walk over should be fined and a second walkover should mean instant expulsion and relegation (This will force clubs to cop on and respect the competitions). County Board need to be strong on this.
4. 100 % agree on the championship format, their needs to be a cut throat attitude towards it, at the moment everyone is a winner and supporters could nt be bothered, just look at the attendances.

thesaturdayman

answers are a lot easier then people think tbh....

All county league made up of 8 teams;

Division 1 - 8 quarter finalists this year senior

Division 2 - Bottom 4 Senior + 2 in west final + 2 in East final

Division 3 - Next 4 in West and 4 in East

Division 4 - The Rest + second and third teams

Division 5 - whatever is left.

7 league games - 1st wins the league (promotion + a prize) last gets relegated. Start it week 14 (paddys weekend) - ran to week 22 / 23 (early May) - no county players.

Phelan Cup / Sargent Cup / all county cups open to all teams all grades lower grade teams get home advantage - straight knock out - start week 25 / 26 - should run for 4 - 5 weeks brings you to week 30 (3rd week of July) - county players potentially back with clubs now - dependent on Waterford.

Championship starts week 32/33 1st week of Aug - straight knock out with a second chance / losers group. 4 seeded teams - last years county finalists seeded + league winner + the next highest placed teams in the league / phelan cup winner, cascading accordingly like the champions league positions in England

Championships take no more then 10 weeks to run off - mid week games with proper notice and pre planning can be arranged. meaning the whole lot over Week before Halloween - week 42.

Have a proper rolling 30-60 day fixture plan that is updated and maintained weekly like a master schedule on the county website and published in local papers weekly. Would generate interest as there is priority for league, tables are published and people know when games are on etc. Ideal for the PRO to do and have purpose in the county - games promotion.

Players would know when games are and are not on & clubs would end up a lot more competitive games earlier in the year with an emphasis / gearing up towards the championship - less pointless friendlies

Change the regrade rule also, out of date, particularly in football (black card rule means more players used) to allow players to come on as a Sub in 2 senior games / Start 1 senior game.

its a complete no brainer, lets club players get on with it, give a place & value to usually meaningless phelan cups etc & by allowing intermediate and junior teams enter would let potentially spicey competitive local games for eg. Tramore playing Fenor in hurling, Saviours playing Gaultier in football, Bonmahon against stradbally etc etc.

but to quote the Simpsons " please wont someone think of the boards "

Lingoweet913

mountgomery burns wrote: »

The problem though, and listening to GPA reps talking about second tier football competition was the same, is you're forgetting dual clubs. There was 3 games played in April for those Senior dual clubs this year.

It was grand this year as we'd all the time in the world but if we were for progress as far as we'd like then suddenly congestion is a big issue. I'm not a fan of cramming games into April either and the a summer hiatus but unfortunately this is the biggest challenge the organisation as a whole currently faces and there is no easy solution. As Saturdayman pointed out in fairness, it's not fair on County players either. But they're the minority all the same.

I think there's also a huge problem with the April games in that it prolongs the championship season by 4 months having those games. The problem lies that it's impossible to maintain momentum all year long, so what ends up happening is the club season is basically 2 seasons.

Season 1:
Preseason Training: February - Mid March
Champhionship Training: Mid March - April
Champhionship Games: April

Season 2:
Preseason Training: June - Mid July
Champhionship Training: Mid July - August
Champhionship Games: August - October

This means you have to up organisation, challenge games, intensity and player buy in very early in the year, then things die down for a while mid Summer and try and ramp things up again at the end of the year.

Maybe it's fine for larger clubs (not sure), but in smaller clubs it's very difficult to have all players buy in for a almost a full 8 months. You'll get some players mad for action here and there, but for the whole year it just doesn't happen. I find within my own club this is one of the major reasons we lose players. It does also of course interrupt county preparation in April, but that's not really my focus I'm more worried about clubs.

If we could only have league games in April May June (play every weekend, 2 weeks hurling, 2 weeks football), and have Championship in July August September October then every team would be able to build their progression pretty well and have everyone available at the business end.

It would be even better if we could completely separate the hurling and football seasons - because this notion of flipping between one and the other every week just lowers the standard for that team. It lowers the standard because you obviously have to drop the hurleys the week of football, so you're not building and building progress, it's more of a two steps forward one step back. As well as that, it's not uncommon that a team progressing in one code blocks a match being played in another code holding up the whole competition. So I'd have hurling first in better weather and football after.

There are some problems with this system.

1) Having clubs agree to play league games for 3 months throughout the Summer, where it's again common for games being called off and leagues not getting played. I'm not sure what the major carrot we need to get it done, but maybe if final position determines a loose enough seeding process for championship it would work.
2) It would have been fine for the last 2 years as county ended in June, but previously it wouldn't work as we got to final. I think we'd need to drop the April month and finish the All Ireland 2 weeks earlier again for it to happen. Even if we got to an All Ireland - which doesn't happen very often, like once a decade or longer, it might just be worth taking the hit for having a congested championship.

If you could get this system in place, league in April May June, Championship in July August September October, and separate the hurling and football seasons meaning that no games should be blocked by either county players or a hurling team progressing and blocking a football match or vice versa - then you could in theory release a fixtures calendar on January 1st with every club fixture and have a very good chance of sticking to it fully (the only asterix is that it would be disrupted by a county team getting to an All Ireland semi final, but if everyone knows this it's not a massive problem IMO).

I'm not saying this is a prefect solution of course, I'm sure there is some holes in it but I feel like it's on the right track.

So the benefits are:
- Starting season later, so no more running in the mud in January and February.
- A natural progression - league first and build up to championship.
- Less reasons for matches not being played, eg: progression of a dual team in one code holding up the other code.
- Clubs aren't juggling both, so you don't sacrifice hurling by playing football.
- A definite calendar on day 1.

mountgomery burns

DiscoStew wrote: »

I’d be inclined to agree on the April club games. I think it makes more sense to start your league games in say May minus the intercounty players and play that through the summer every second weekend basically. Start championship in September then.
As it is ordinary club players bust their balls from Jan to April for what is often just 1 championship game. Some will have more and I think Ballysaggart even possibly ended up without a fixture in April this year due to Waterford reaching the league final and the subsequent postponement of 1 round of hurling.
The only way this could possibly work is with a hugely incentivised league. The league as it is would not work as the rewards are realistically not worth the effort. How to restructure that though I am not quite so sure.

The problem though, and listening to GPA reps talking about second tier football competition was the same, is you're forgetting dual clubs. There was 3 games played in April for those Senior dual clubs this year.

It was grand this year as we'd all the time in the world but if we were for progress as far as we'd like then suddenly congestion is a big issue. I'm not a fan of cramming games into April either and the a summer hiatus but unfortunately this is the biggest challenge the organisation as a whole currently faces and there is no easy solution. As Saturdayman pointed out in fairness, it's not fair on County players either. But they're the minority all the same.

Mastermcgrath

hardybuck wrote: »

Be sensible now. Stepping down from 16 years with Kilkenny to take a role with Waterford!?

Either one extreme or the other with that lad

hardybuck

PTH2009 wrote: »

Mick Dempsey stepping away from Kilkenny, could he be coming here as S&C coach ??

Be sensible now. Stepping down from 16 years with Kilkenny to take a role with Waterford!?

PTH2009

Clare GAA have live coverage of Club championship games on youtube this year

is this something our CB should look at ??

Mick Dempsey stepping away from Kilkenny, could he be coming here as S&C coach ??

DiscoStew

thesaturdayman wrote: »

probably need to write off the league, imagine therell be a lot of trial and error, doubt this manager will be trying to hit the high notes in the league as he has nothing to prove to us. Fanning was probably under pressure from the off and needed a good league (and got it!) but evidently the league and champ are going further and further apart in terms of relevance.

for me the big thing jumps out (and its not a dig) is the county board cramming fixtures into "club month" in April. should leave the dam thing free for county imo!

looking at last 2 years disastrous, only commonality is the purge of fixtures JB, TDB all playing 4 weekends in a row for eg!

I’d be inclined to agree on the April club games. I think it makes more sense to start your league games in say May minus the intercounty players and play that through the summer every second weekend basically. Start championship in September then.
As it is ordinary club players bust their balls from Jan to April for what is often just 1 championship game. Some will have more and I think Ballysaggart even possibly ended up without a fixture in April this year due to Waterford reaching the league final and the subsequent postponement of 1 round of hurling.
The only way this could possibly work is with a hugely incentivised league. The league as it is would not work as the rewards are realistically not worth the effort. How to restructure that though I am not quite so sure.

hurler on de ditch

thesaturdayman wrote: »

probably need to write off the league, imagine therell be a lot of trial and error, doubt this manager will be trying to hit the high notes in the league as he has nothing to prove to us. Fanning was probably under pressure from the off and needed a good league (and got it!) but evidently the league and champ are going further and further apart in terms of relevance.

for me the big thing jumps out (and its not a dig) is the county board cramming fixtures into "club month" in April. should leave the dam thing free for county imo!

looking at last 2 years disastrous, only commonality is the purge of fixtures JB, TDB all playing 4 weekends in a row for eg!

Ridiculous

PTH2009

Jjjjjjjjbarry wrote: »

When are the league fixtures due out? Could be some dodgy away trips as far as I remember.

The prov fixtures are out but not made public yet

if there going by the last few years we will have 3 away trips and 2 home games. Galway/Limerick/Tipp/Westmeath and Cork in our group. 6th place team (more than likely Westmeath) will go into a relagation playoff with the 6th place team in 1B. 1st place team go straight into the league semi finals with 2nd and 3rd going into the QFS (2nd 1A vs 3rd 1B, 2nd 1B vs 3rd 1A). 4th/5th go out and are safe

im guessing fixtures will be this

Round 1- Weekend of 25th/26th Jan
Round 2- Weekend of 1st/2nd Feb
Round 3- Weekend of 15th/16th Feb
Round 4- Weekend of 22nd/23rd Feb
Round 5- Weekend of 29th Feb/1st Mar
QF- 7th/8th Mar
SF- 14th/15th Mar
F- 22nd or 29th Mar

thesaturdayman

probably need to write off the league, imagine therell be a lot of trial and error, doubt this manager will be trying to hit the high notes in the league as he has nothing to prove to us. Fanning was probably under pressure from the off and needed a good league (and got it!) but evidently the league and champ are going further and further apart in terms of relevance.

for me the big thing jumps out (and its not a dig) is the county board cramming fixtures into "club month" in April. should leave the dam thing free for county imo!

looking at last 2 years disastrous, only commonality is the purge of fixtures JB, TDB all playing 4 weekends in a row for eg!

[Deleted User]

When are the league fixtures due out? Could be some dodgy away trips as far as I remember.

KevIRL

I assume round 3 for us will be weekend of 29-30 May to prevent us having games three weekends in a row?

[Deleted User]

enoughtaken wrote: »

Munster Hurling Championship fixtures 2020
9-10 May: Cork v Limerick; Waterford v Tipperary
16-17 May: Limerick v Waterford; Tipperary v Clare
23-24 or 29-30 May: Clare v Limerick, Waterford v Cork
6-7 June: Cork v Clare, Limerick v Tipperary
14 June: Clare v Waterford, Tipperary v Cork

Waterford v Tipp in Walsh Park is a great way to start. Up against the All Ireland champions with one of their own plotting against them. A great way to start. We'll still be positive at that stage too!

PTH2009

Tough set of fixtures in Munster with no easy game time will tell, looking forward to 2020

thesaturdayman

David Walsh, a true Waterford great.

He showed us all what humility is & how to conduct ones self with dignity in the face of tremendous challenge and adversity.

RIP

Cake Man

Maybe it’s just the negativity that goes with being a Waterford supporter the last few years and not having won a single championship game the last two years but looking at those fixtures above there really looks to be no easy fixture or a game where you’d say we’d be in with a good chance and target a win. At least this year, that game was probably home v Clare on the opening day but we managed to totally balls that one up.
Without sounding like another PTH2009 but we could easily be down that road again of getting to game 3 v Cork with two losses under our belts. The hard work starts now.

enoughtaken

Munster Hurling Championship fixtures 2020
9-10 May: Cork v Limerick; Waterford v Tipperary
16-17 May: Limerick v Waterford; Tipperary v Clare
23-24 or 29-30 May: Clare v Limerick, Waterford v Cork
6-7 June: Cork v Clare, Limerick v Tipperary
14 June: Clare v Waterford, Tipperary v Cork

blueflame

Have to same I am surprised but delighted that we have managed to secure the services of Cahill. Obviously he is a young manager unproven at senior level and dealing with Seniors as opposed to under age sides is a very different ball game.

However I do believe he has a seriously strong character and is 100% committed to his beliefs. from what i hear it is his way or the highway., and rightly so for a manager - hurling is a Team sport - you play for your team or you don't play at all and any of the teams i have seen under Cahill's leadership play as a team and work their socks off for each other.

Most importantly I expect that he has no baggage in Waterford i.e. he has no club allegiance, no player group allegiance and no East West bias. We in Waterford - players, supporters, pundits, the Co Board, and ex-managers now need leave our baggage at the door and give him every chance and every ounce of support as he attempts to turn this ship around. I believe he has potentially a very very good panel at this disposal, some players will most likely be dispensed with, some new players will be added, some people will not be happy, that is the nature of things, but we must now look forward as a united county and hope he will succeed.

I for one am more optimistic pre-season than I have been for quite some time and I am really looking forward to seeing him get stuck in - Liam if you do read comments on these boards, which I doubt very much, - "Cead mile failte go dti Port Lairge"

DLS2THECORE

I can concur with everything that the Saturday man has posted here. The county, western and eastern board are a complete shambles.

Having had close contact with these in the not too distant past, one of the lines I had the pleasure of hearing was - "Forget your club, you are on the board now"
Not one ounce of respect do they show to our clubs. Bleeding the life and soul out of the clubs financially and otherwise.
As for the PRO, thou shalt not speak of limitations. Totally inept and incapable of any type of promotions.
Paper team sheets handed out at games are not worth the paper they are written on. Incorrect teams, incorrect numbers and players included that may have retired a few years ago.
A suggestion of an App for Waterford GAA clubs whereby teams are uploaded on the App 30 minutes before throw in was laughed at. How dare somebody suggest some forward thinking?
The county board are at loggerheads with some Eastern and Western board members, have seen this at first hand.

How they managed to secure Liam Cahill is a minor miracle.

Gardner

thesaturdayman excellently put. probably the best poster on this forum

Mastermcgrath

iebamm2580 wrote: »

This could go either way in terms of success, if the players buy into cahill it could be something to look forward to with optimism for Waterford fans but if some if the main players like Gleeson and co dont buy into his strict regime it could be a disaster before even the league kicks off. Cahill takes no **** no matter who the player is so its up to the players really and if they adhere to cahills plan they will certainly play a nice attacking brand of hurling and work their sicks off which is all any fan wants at the end of the day.

Agreed, but personally I think its the perfect tonic for this group. An outside manager with no axes to grind, here is a young coach, innovative thinker, that has been there and done it. An All Ireland winner as a player and a manager. If he cant breathe life into these lads, who can. Everyone has to prove themselves and starting from scratch again. I don't believe that was the case with Fanning when he came in after Derek, he wasn't sure what way he wanted to go in terms of gameplan, the players smelled weakness and as soon as that happens you're doomed. Its no coincidence that Gleeson looked back to his brilliant best at the county semi final on Sunday, he knew well there would be interested eyes in the crowd.

iebamm2580

This could go either way in terms of success, if the players buy into cahill it could be something to look forward to with optimism for Waterford fans but if some if the main players like Gleeson and co dont buy into his strict regime it could be a disaster before even the league kicks off. Cahill takes no **** no matter who the player is so its up to the players really and if they adhere to cahills plan they will certainly play a nice attacking brand of hurling and work their sicks off which is all any fan wants at the end of the day.

Mastermcgrath

Without us having pucked a ball or seen a team sheet yet, what an outstanding appointment. It was a bold move to go after the best up and coming manager in a neighbouring county, if there is some cash available it would be so much easier to go after one of the usual suspects on the managerial merrigoround but this is a real forward thinking appointment which has left me surprised to be honest given what we know of our county board. Kudos to the recruitment committee for getting him