FrancieBrady wrote: » What is unforgivable is the sight of Tory's once again cheerfully and irresponsibly turning issues affecting this island into a Green V Orange ones.
54and56 wrote: » We (RoI) are deadly at referendums. If Leo et al come under serious pressure to accept a DMZ type checks and controls solution away from each border and/or a time limit on the backstop and/or a Stormont lock so that the "undemocratic' backstop can be made palatable to the HoC wouldn't it be a great idea for Leo to "democratise" the RoI decision and put the proposed solution to a yes/no referendum here? That would take the decision (and potential blame for being a blocker) away from our politicians and give it to the people who will have to directly live with the consequences. Agree the deal subject to a confirmatory referendum here which would require a short (2 month?) extension to facilitate. Good/Bad idea?
liamtech wrote: » FrancieBrady wrote: » What is unforgivable is the sight of Tory's once again cheerfully and irresponsibly turning issues affecting this island into a Green V Orange ones. That is exactly what they are doing - divide et impera
AlmightyCushion wrote: » Terrible idea. We elect politicians to make these decisions. You can't guarantee how this vote would go. The Brexit vote was considered a foregone conclusion. They were never going to vote out... then they voted out. We can't take that risk with something as important as this. Plus, by putting it to a vote, it shows that the government at least condone it if not support it. We absolutely have to come down on this plan as not being acceptable. Putting it to a vote goes against that and moves the goalposts. The current goalpost is no border. By putting this to a vote, even if it gets voted down in a landslide loss, moves the goalpost to some variation of this plan. Even if the people here vote it down, it would silence the pro Brexit crowd. They've shown they only care about democracy when it suits them and Brexit. Instead of the Irish government being unreasonable they'll just say the Irish people are being unreasonable. Not to mention a referendum costs money to run and takes up the government's time. That time and money could be better spent. We can't even entertain this idea. We need to shoot it down as the ridiculous nonsense it is.
A Dub in Glasgo wrote: » I would be very surprised if the EU did not see this scenario coming as it was telegraphed a while ago. Johnson had no interest in putting together credible alternative proposals and just wants to project the blame for his own decisions elsewhere
Flex wrote: » Having read the 'two sources familiar with the Withdrawal Agreement claim the EU will put pressure on the government of Ireland' stories yesterday, today the Independent is saying sources in the EU state the UK government proposal falls way short of the requirementshttp://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/brexit/uk-plans-to-offer-eu-two-borders-for-four-years-in-bid-to-abolish-backstop/ar-AAI8Kes?ocid=ientp Also states that the UK government had briefed numerous EU capitals about the plan, but excluded ourselves from that shortlist Out of curiosity, I don't for a moment believe there is any merit to what was reported in the UK media yesterday (other EU governments would put pressure on our government to accept a watered down ineffective backstop so long as the remainder of the British offer was reliable or coherent), but out of curiosity does anyone here actually think the EU would have done such a thing? Perhaps its naivety on my part, but I don't think there would have been any pressure at all applied and I believe our government sources, such as Simon Coveney and Helen McEntee, (along with Michel Barnier, President Macron, Chancellor Merkel, Prime Minister Bettel, and a countless list of others) when they state there isn't nor has there ever been any pressure applied to us to water down our position or submit to Johnson or any UK government. This is what the EU was created for, states pooling sovereignty and strength to support one another, whether in trade, economic matters, external states behaving aggressively, etc. and the solidarity from 26 other sovereign governments with Ireland has been remarkable.
joe40 wrote: » What is the money like working in customs. There might be jobs going
farmchoice wrote: » the proposals are not far short of ridiculous, so we can assume it was not really a serious attempt at getting a deal, so a deal really isn't the plan. that leaves no deal or extension. the benn act appears to take no deal off the table and by laying out this fantasy plan now on the face of it it gives the opposition even more time to make sure the benn act is implemented. it looks to me like boris is happy enough that he can neutralize the brexit party in the election, the vast majority of their supporters are tories at heart and they will come back to Boris now that he has played the hard man. he will present the extension he gets as the opposition and the Eu ganging up on him and only by returning him with a majority can he win the day. not that that will really solve anything because without a majority of about 100 he will be back to having the ERG breathing down his neck.
Christy42 wrote: » It is random brexiteer hope at this point. EU putting pressure on Ireland at the start. Then when they didn't they claimed that the EU was bullying Ireland and Ireland should ignore. And then occasionally they would claim that the EU would bully Ireland (like this piece) and that Ireland should listen. This story will keep coming up and keep being utter bull****. However if they print it enough times people might believe it.
liamtech wrote: » i really hope your correct, i really do. Perhaps Unionist businesses will see the DUP's position as untenable. and move toward the alliance.. or at least away from a hard right DUP/TUV position.. you mention the UUP, i didnt think they were quite as populist/extreme as the DUP? But i defer to you, and i would be interested in hearing what you think regards these various Unionist Blocks. What i think, is the Unionist community need a strong coherent Unionist party that opposes all of this, to vote for.. they need an alternative.. how about the PUP? What concerns me is the state of the UK Polls. It really does seem that the Conservatives are soaking up the Brexit Parties support so a right wing split, which i had hoped for (for no other reason than my being a leftie and supporting a second ref) is not gonna happen More worrying is that Lab and the Lib Dems are at war with each other - neither seem to be impacting the Rights vote in any meaningful way. so the split is on the left, and given FPTP voting - it could be a bloodbath - the Tories could get an insane majority - which would be devastating interested to see what people have to say
Professor Genius wrote: » Not the way she drops the ‘g’ at the end of her verbs. It’s quite gratin’ once you notice it
TCDStudent1 wrote: » Quick question on these new proposals. It was mentioned that after 4 years, the NI assembly would get to say what happens then. What would happen if the NI assembly is not sitting in 4 years time?
Flex wrote: » but out of curiosity does anyone here actually think the EU would have done such a thing?
Leroy42 wrote: » So this deal effectively throws the DUP under the bus doesn't it? Separate from GB in terms of regs and having to live with EU regs without any say in them. Wasn't that the cornerstone of why the backstop was objected to?
Leroy42 wrote: » So this deal effectively throws the DUP under the bus doesn't it?
Infini wrote: » To be perfectly honest these "proposals" aren't anything but useless delusional bullshít.
gooch2k9 wrote: » Effectively throws everyone in NI under the bus. Two borders where none were wanted. Also reliant on a flagrant abuse of petition of concern giving Stormont a veto. Mark Davenport had a twitter thread earlier saying the DUP presented it as "Unionists having a veto". I see Jamie Bryson's loyalists aren't pleased with being in an "economic United Ireland" for four years that nationalist have a say over staying in. Proposals please nobody except those who want to say they tried for a deal.
