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Child Item

Lights out but fuse not tripped

Pinch Flat

Bit of a weird one. Downstairs lights went out but fuse and RCB not tripped. Reset everting and still no joy. We had very heavy rain today but surely water finding its way in somewhere (the junction box on the outside light looked loose) would trip the fuse?

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listermint

my3cents wrote: »

Funny how many main ESB fuses have loose anti tamper seals on them.

New installations have an MCB at the meter which cuts the CU

Stigura

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Problem apparently was with a cable, could have been rodent damage according to the guys.

The UK Fire Service once stated that they reckoned 75% of " Fires of unknown origin " were actually attributable to rodents.

my3cents

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Not if you have a breaker at the meter feeding it!

Funny how many main ESB fuses have loose anti tamper seals on them.

Pinch Flat

Anyway quick update. Electricians on the site over the road came across and looked at it - Problem apparently was with a cable, could have been rodent damage according to the guys. They replaced a short length from the fuse board to the down stairs WC. MCB is grand. All good again and lights back on.

Stoner

HappyAsLarE wrote:

Not if you have a breaker at the meter feeding it!

Good point, but as you know they are usually unswitched fuses feeding consumer units.
In a domestic arrangement it would be an 80 amp fuse, sealed with an ESB tag, that would be the standard domestic arrangement. Yes there are variations of this but most houses in Ireland are set up as such

It would be best when giving advice on a DIY forum to approach it in this way IMO

Look, I'm not suggesting that people wont work on their own boards, or that there will ever be a day when an electrician won't work on a board in their own house. Nor am I suggesting that it has anything to do with insurance.

But it can be dangerous, far more so than the intruder alarm issue.

I'm sure that as a person that works on 3 phase 400V panels that you follow a lock out tag about systems where the breaker feeding the board you are working on is locked out etc. Usually domestic boards don't have this feature

Generally speaking a DIY person does not have this training or knowledge, maybe electricians undervalue it.

Someone doing domestic work off the books takes no food off my plate. I'm offering my opinion and advice based on what I believe is safe practice, rather than engaging in a game of oneupmanship (not suggesting anyone else here is either).

The advice given here at the start, the OP was directed to get a qualified person to look at it.

That said form experience gained a lifetime ago, its more likely to be an issue with a connection than an MCB, as many know a dropped looped feed or a neutral cable would be far more likely to be the issue.

Checking backwards from the lights and switches with a decent multimeter is far safer and completely legal.

HappyAsLarE

Stoner wrote: »

A consumer unit is always live...

Not if you have a breaker at the meter feeding it!

HappyAsLarE

As someone who works on 400v 3 phase cabinets in work I have no problem doing work in my own gaff.

Is an insurance assessor going to forensically test that one MCB didn’t have a RECI’s fingerprints on it?

Stoner

Clareman was being informative, no need for the tetchy response imo, particularly when some of the advice given was around ELCBs, RCDs and RCBOs all very unlikely to be associated with a domestic lighting circuit.

A consumer unit is always live, very dangerous, many electrical contractors won't let staff work on live boards so its more than reasonable to advise people in the DIY forum to avoid doing similar.

Many people carry out complicated tasks at work, it doesn't mean that they are the best person to address any lesser complicated task.

The new rules seem to annoy electricians as much anyone as now the law is that an electrician outside of the restricted works set of tasks cant work on their own house. It's more restricting than the intruder alarm regulations as at least you are allowed install your own alarm.

A DIY person can carry out certain tasks, like adding a socket or changing out accessories. They can't work in restricted areas that are "dangerous" consumer units, bathrooms etc.
There's more to it than vested interests.

Deagol

D13exile wrote: »

Again I agree as most things around the house can be solved yourself if you put your mind to it. However I feel competent DIY'ers are a dying breed as the younger generations wouldn't know which is the business end of a screwdriver!!:D Asking my son to hand me a Philips screwdriver entails an accurate description of what a scrwdriver is, never mind the head on it!!!!

Common sense isn't common anymore

Lumen

Deagol wrote: »

I'll stick with my, perhaps cynical, view I think 99.99% of people are not stupid enough to attempt to fiddle inside a panel without some idea of what they are doing. It doesn't need someone to start talking about RECI etc.. I've noticed that everytime an electrical thread starts we have people coming on talking about getting an electrician and RECI certs - even if there's absolutely no need for it.

NewClareman was merely pointing out the legal position.

D13exile

Deagol wrote: »

I'll stick with my, perhaps cynical, view I think 99.99% of people are not stupid enough to attempt to fiddle inside a panel without some idea of what they are doing. It doesn't need someone to start talking about RECI etc.. I've noticed that everytime an electrical thread starts we have people coming on talking about getting an electrician and RECI certs - even if there's absolutely no need for it.

Again I agree as most things around the house can be solved yourself if you put your mind to it. However I feel competent DIY'ers are a dying breed as the younger generations wouldn't know which is the business end of a screwdriver!!:D Asking my son to hand me a Philips screwdriver entails an accurate description of what a scrwdriver is, never mind the head on it!!!!

Deagol

D13exile wrote: »

While I would have a similar view to you as I do 99% of the jobs around my house, I'd say that guy was just trying to gives a heads up to any ordinary and not very DIY proficient person who might blow themselves across the room if they haven't a clue what they're doing with the main circuit board in their home.

I'll stick with my, perhaps cynical, view

I think 99.99% of people are not stupid enough to attempt to fiddle inside a panel without some idea of what they are doing. It doesn't need someone to start talking about RECI etc.. I've noticed that everytime an electrical thread starts we have people coming on talking about getting an electrician and RECI certs - even if there's absolutely no need for it.

D13exile

Deagol wrote: »

Was wondering how long it would take before vested interests turned up to hammer home the point that their lobbying team have done a fantastic job of bambozzling everyone into believing that you need a degree in rocket science to put a wire into a hole and turn a screw :rolleyes:

I work in my panel occasionally, it's my home and I'll do what I please with it. I work offshore doing far more complicated and dangerous jobs so I'll ignore the law on this one, thanks.

While I would have a similar view to you as I do 99% of the jobs around my house, I'd say that guy was just trying to gives a heads up to any ordinary and not very DIY proficient person who might blow themselves across the room if they haven't a clue what they're doing with the main circuit board in their home.

Deagol

NewClareman wrote: »

It’s no longer legal to work on the panel, regardless of competency, if you aren’t a member of RECI. It also invalidates you’re house insurance.

Was wondering how long it would take before vested interests turned up to hammer home the point that their lobbying team have done a fantastic job of bambozzling everyone into believing that you need a degree in rocket science to put a wire into a hole and turn a screw :rolleyes:

I work in my panel occasionally, it's my home and I'll do what I please with it. I work offshore doing far more complicated and dangerous jobs so I'll ignore the law on this one, thanks.

NewClareman

Deagol wrote: »

If you have to ask

Definitely not safe to be in the panel if you're not qualified or at least competent. Highly recommend to get a pro. I say that as a DIY man who attempts most things

It’s no longer legal to work on the panel, regardless of competency, if you aren’t a member of RECI. It also invalidates you’re house insurance.

I would think it very unlikely that the MCB has failed. Are you certain that the lights don’t have their own RCD/ELCB?.

In any case, if the outside junction box looks loose that should be checked. If doing this yourself, which is legal, make CERTAIN there is no power feed. If in any doubt turn off the entire mains at the board.

Pinch Flat

Yeah looks like a job for a sparkie

Deagol

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Yeah I think you’re right. Just been through the MCB and rcd again and no joy. I’ve never replaced a MCB - only the old style fuses. Are they handy to replace? Obviously flick the main switch first. Or one best left for an electrician?

If you have to ask

Definitely not safe to be in the panel if you're not qualified or at least competent. Highly recommend to get a pro. I say that as a DIY man who attempts most things

Pinch Flat

Deagol wrote: »

MCB's can fail. I had something similar happen, took me a while to figure it out as I didn't think of MCB failure. You could swap 2 MCB's around to check. They are cheap though so probably easiest to buy a new one.

Yeah I think you’re right. Just been through the MCB and rcd again and no joy. I’ve never replaced a MCB - only the old style fuses. Are they handy to replace? Obviously flick the main switch first. Or one best left for an electrician?

Deagol

MCB's can fail. I had something similar happen, took me a while to figure it out as I didn't think of MCB failure. You could swap 2 MCB's around to check. They are cheap though so probably easiest to buy a new one.

FishOnABike

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Yeah gave that a go and no joy - might try again in case it’s getting stuck. Any chance the MCB itself is toast?

Might be worth pressing the test button on the RCD/ RCCB before resetting it to its on position.

Pinch Flat

Power okay to downstairs sockets. Yes there’s also a RCD fitted.

the_pen_turner

is there any kind of elcb (earth leakage)involved.

BDI

Is there power to sockets?

Pinch Flat

BDI wrote: »

Light bulb?

All down stairs lights are gone. All went together.

BDI

Light bulb?

Pinch Flat

FishOnABike wrote: »

You might have to switch the trip switch to the fully down position before switching it back up (on) again.

Yeah gave that a go and no joy - might try again in case it’s getting stuck. Any chance the MCB itself is toast?

FishOnABike

You might have to switch the trip switch to the fully down position before switching it back up (on) again.