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Formula 1 2019 - General Discussion Thread

pjohnson

Official 2019 Entry List is OUT!

44 Lewis Hamilton (Mercedes-AMG Petronas Motorsport)
77 Valtteri Bottas (Mercedes-AMG Petronas Motorsport)
5 Sebastian Vettel (Scuderia Ferrari Mission Minnnow)
16 Charles Leclerc (Scuderia Ferrari Mission Minnnow)
33 Max Verstappen (Aston Martin Red Bull Racing)
10 Pierre Gasly (Aston Martin Red Bull Racing)
3 Daniel Ricciardo (Renault F1 Team)
27 Nico Hulkenberg (Renault F1 Team)
8 Romain Grosjean (Rich Energy Haas F1 Team)
20 Kevin Magnussen (Rich Energy Haas F1 Team)
55 Carlos Sainz Jnr (McLaren F1 Team)
4 Lando Norris (McLaren F1 Team)
11 Sergio Perez (Racing Point F1 Team)
18 Lance Stroll (Racing Point F1 Team)
7 Kimi Raikkonen (Alfa Romeo Sauber F1 Team)
99 Antonio Giovinazzi (Alfa Romeo Sauber F1 Team)
26 Daniil Kvyat (Red Bull Toro Rosso Honda)
TBA Alexander Albon (Red Bull Toro Rosso Honda)
63 George Russell (Williams Racing)
88 Robert Kubica (Williams Racing)

Only Albon needs to confirm his Race Number, Force India IS gone replaced by just Racing Point. Haas F1 Team is now Rich Energy Haas F1 Team

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vectra

GarIT wrote: »

I watch for the strategy couldn't really care who is overtaking who.

And I feel the opposite about the Ferrari situation, LeClerc would be far ahead of Vettel if LeClerc wasn't playing the team game all the time and then Vettel won't give back the help he is being given. Vettel needs to be dropped for Hulk or Alonso. Whatever happens LeClerc needs to stop playing the team game and get talking to Mercedes and Red Bull.

I absolutely agree with you ! ( well, 90% agree )
Just drop the Alonso talk, that man left a disaster after him in every team he was with.
I don't rate Hulkenberg very much, but I think the harmony between himself and Charles would be good.

GarIT

meeeeh wrote: »

Anyway Vettel and Leclerc is good, despite their bickering Ferrari can actually attempt strategic racing using their second driver.

Did you not hear Vettel yesterday? I think they would have a hard time trying to convince him to be a full time wingman for LeClerc.

Unless you think someone on Verstappen's level should be number two to someone who was beaten by Ricciardo.

vectra

GarIT wrote: »

Did you not hear Vettel yesterday? I think they would have a hard time trying to convince him to be a full time wingman for LeClerc.

Multi21 was the first thing that came to mind yesterday when I heard Vettel.

skipper_G

uchimata83 wrote: »

Brutal, where was Brundle today? It's a clown show without him

He was racing at the Nürburgring this weekend

https://twitter.com/MBrundleF1/status/1178046398610186241

Charlie-Bravo

Its fairly obvious that Vettel is not a team player, or at least, won't give up a win unnecessarily. Multi 21 is all Charles needs to know. He shouldn't be fooled twice and should now just race for himself, and help the team only if it utilmately benefits him.

recyclebin

Le Clerc will have learned a lot so far this season. I can see a Hamilton/Rosberg type scenario developing where both Ferrari will take each other out at first corner just to prove a point.

eviltimeban

PopePalpatine wrote: »

He misses a few races every year because of health concerns. Sure beats putting up with David Croft's shïtstirring.

Is it health though? I read somewhere that he only commits to X number of races, so if there are more on the calendar he doesn't do them.

He's hardly watching his health if he's racing!

H3llR4iser

So, McLaren has now come full circle - back to Mercedes power in 2021. I frankly thought the writing was on the wall on this one since it became clear that the Honda partnership wouldn't work out. Hopefully they'll continue the upwards trajectory in terms of chassis development.

murphyebass

recyclebin wrote: »

Le Clerc will have learned a lot so far this season. I can see a Hamilton/Rosberg type scenario developing where both Ferrari will take each other out at first corner just to prove a point.

Hope so. A bit of action at least!!

Cork Trucker

eviltimeban wrote: »

Is it health though? I read somewhere that he only commits to X number of races, so if there are more on the calendar he doesn't do them.

He's hardly watching his health if he's racing!

I read the same, he's committed to/contracted for 18 races.

AMKC

GarIT wrote: »

I watch for the strategy couldn't really care who is overtaking who.

And I feel the opposite about the Ferrari situation, LeClerc would be far ahead of Vettel if LeClerc wasn't playing the team game all the time and then Vettel won't give back the help he is being given. Vettel needs to be dropped for Hulk or Alonso. Whatever happens LeClerc needs to stop playing the team game and get talking to Mercedes and Red Bull.

It would not be Alonso anyway. He had his chance and time in F1. I think Nico Hulkenberg is racing better than he ever raced and think he would do great at Ferrari.

meeeeh wrote: »

There is a running joke in our house that according to Autosport Ferrari should give a chance to Kubica and Hulkenberg. They deserve it.

No sane Ferrari fan would want either Hulkenberg or Alonso. One had enough chances and didn't even manage the podium and the other one would burn down his own garage if it suited them. Maybe Mercedes should replace Bottas with one of them or maybe they should both go to McLaren. I'm sure they will win everything next year with their fastest chassis on the grid.

Anyway Vettel and Leclerc is good, despite their bickering Ferrari can actually attempt strategic racing using their second driver.

While I agree with yo about Alonso I disagree about Nico Hulnenberg. I think he is racing great of late and would be really good for Ferrari and at Ferrari. He is what the team need.

astrofluff wrote: »

Its fairly obvious that Vettel is not a team player, or at least, won't give up a win unnecessarily. Multi 21 is all Charles needs to know. He shouldn't be fooled twice and should now just race for himself, and help the team only if it utilmately benefits him.

Vettel is selfish just like most racers once they are in the car and just wants to win. I do think Ferrari thinking they could do a strategy like they tried yesterday was a mistake and that it would be better to just let both of them race. Maybe now that they have no chance of winning the WDC or WCC they will just let them race now. Next year hopefully Ferrari will still be right at the front and they can start of fresh and decide who is no1 and 2 driver as the season goes on if they are beating Mercedes.

uchimata83

astrofluff wrote: »

Its fairly obvious that Vettel is not a team player, or at least, won't give up a win unnecessarily. Multi 21 is all Charles needs to know. He shouldn't be fooled twice and should now just race for himself, and help the team only if it utilmately benefits him.

Vettel made the right call, if Charles was within a second of him fine, but the gap was around 2.5 seconds with hamilton only 2 seconds behind Charles. Ferrari should have grown a pair and took control of the situation and not try to enforce team orders after 6 or 7 laps.

meeeeh

GarIT wrote: »

Did you not hear Vettel yesterday? I think they would have a hard time trying to convince him to be a full time wingman for LeClerc.

Unless you think someone on Verstappen's level should be number two to someone who was beaten by Ricciardo.

Well the new Verstappen should be first able to get close enough to his teammate. Yesterday Leclerc wasn't able to follow Vettel. At the moment Leclerc won 2 races hell have to show a bit more before he can claim no1 status. I like Leclerc and he reminds me of young Schumacher but it will take a bit longer to establish how good he actually is. Vettel was much better getting through the traffic in Singapore for example.

Anjobe

meeeeh wrote: »

Well the new Verstappen should be first able to get close enough to his teammate. Yesterday Leclerc wasn't able to follow Vettel. At the moment Leclerc won 2 races hell have to show a bit more before he can claim no1 status. I like Leclerc and he reminds me of young Schumacher but it will take a bit longer to establish how good he actually is. Vettel was much better getting through the traffic in Singapore for example.

Leclerc has been outperforming Vettel for most of the season though, yesterday was the first time in quite a while this hasn't happened in fact it was Vettel's best race in ages. That's what confidence can do, I guess, he must have deluded himself somehow that he actually won in Singapore on merit!

I am really looking forward to watching the two of them duking it out, Leclerc must know now that there is no point him driving for the team and expecting Vettel to do likewise.

Joeface

the Verstappen/Ricciardo thing cannot been thown in every time . Yes Ricciardo beat Vettel ... Vettels Replacement Kvyat Beat Riccicardo and then it took 2 full seasons before Verstappen came out on top of Ricciardo.

The problem Ferrari had at the weekend should have been solved on race pace. Vettel was faster yesterday Leclerc is the road block ( I am aware there was an agreement but Vettels pace as unmatched , Singapore Vettel clearly faster in the race , Leclerc Road block . Monza Leclerc Clearly faster on the day Vettel should have been a road block but he F'd that up. Spa leclerc was clearly faster on the day . Vettel job Road block which he did . They cannot win the drivers championship this year unless lewis completely implodes but they could have probalby got the constructors . The Team should be first in this case managment have blown this . Drivers are all self involved when it comes to winning I dont blame them . Handling them should be easy at this stage for Ferrari but they never seem to fully learn.

What are we left with after yesterday . Bunch of grown men driving Red cars sounding like spoiled kids and Lewis H laughing his hole off cause he was gifted a win .

mickdw

Parking Vettel and causing a safety car should be a sacking offence given the situation yesterday.
You have le clerc sitting pretty as long as mercedes don't get a safety car opportunity. It nothing short of idiotic to create that safety car opportunity.
Engine damage or not, I figure Vettel should have been told to crawl back with the car.
The Ferrari strategy made a lot of sense. Leclerc tow Vettel, get them both ahead of Merc at the start then pay it back. They just shouldnt have been trying to swap back so early.
The management had it all sorted by the pitstops putting leClerc back in front. It was only the breakdown that fecked it all up but surely the teams watch out for safety cars within windows for themselves and the other teams so for them to hand a safety car pit stop to Merc was just laughable.... I believe Vettel had the ability to keep moving if instructed to do so.

eviltimeban

Much as I like Hulk, if he went to Ferrari he'd be a definite number 2 driver. Sure, he might get a few wins and podiums but he would never be the favourite.

GarIT

eviltimeban wrote: »

Much as I like Hulk, if he went to Ferrari he'd be a definite number 2 driver. Sure, he might get a few wins and podiums but he would never be the favourite.

That's the point. They need a clear number 2.

chicorytip

Leclerc is a very fortunate young man indeed to have landed the Ferrari gig so early in his career. Verstappen is a much more accomplished racer but has made a mistake signing with Red Bull again. He needs to be in a silver or red car. Vettel is desperate to win a title with Ferrari but the team bosses clearly no longer want him around.

murphyebass

chicorytip wrote: »

Leclerc is a very fortunate young man indeed to have landed the Ferrari gig so early in his career. Verstappen is a much more accomplished racer but has made a mistake signing with Red Bull again. He needs to be in a silver or red car. Vettel is desperate to win a title with Ferrari but the team bosses clearly no longer want him around.

Verstappen to Mercedes in a year or two when Mr Smug finally retires.

Harika

Hulkenberg is the new Kubica. While Kubica won, Hulk has no podium to show in 10 years of F1.

mickdw

eviltimeban wrote: »

Much as I like Hulk, if he went to Ferrari he'd be a definite number 2 driver. Sure, he might get a few wins and podiums but he would never be the favourite.

That would be the dream ticket for Hulk at the moment.
He is looking at rear of the grid or exiting f1 so a seat in a Ferrari under any circumstance would be a big win.

BikeRacer

astrofluff wrote: »

Its fairly obvious that Vettel is not a team player, or at least, won't give up a win unnecessarily. Multi 21 is all Charles needs to know. He shouldn't be fooled twice and should now just race for himself, and help the team only if it utilmately benefits him.

You might call it a team player, I'd call it a ruthless winners mentality. If you want to be a world champion, I think you need to turn into a selfish pr*ck on track. As you say, lesson learned.

the_pen_turner

BikeRacer wrote: »

You might call it a team player, I'd call it a ruthless winners mentality. If you want to be a world champion, I think you need to turn into a selfish pr*ck on track. As you say, lesson learned.

i would agree 100% if he was in with a chance of the championship

right now they need to work as a team to get ferrari as many points as posible to seal 2nd or try for 1st in the constructers

SCOOP 64

Id say Ferrari will get second place not a hope for 1st place this year in constructors, lets hope they roll over the performance for next year and keep it close to Mercedes.

El_Duderino 09

BikeRacer wrote: »

You might call it a team player, I'd call it a ruthless winners mentality. If you want to be a world champion, I think you need to turn into a selfish pr*ck on track. As you say, lesson learned.

He learned after getting roughed up by Verstappen. He pushed Hamilton off the track In monza.

It’s easy to forget he didn’t live up to the hype for the first few races in sauber last year. He learned that the sauber wasn’t responding to his driving style so he changed his driving style after the first 4/5 races. That’s what I’ve heard anyway.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he adapts to the new “equal status” in Ferrari (equal because it’s everyone for them self and stuff your team orders).

I really like LeClerc. I think he’ll deal with the reality adapt.

quokula

astrofluff wrote: »

Its fairly obvious that Vettel is not a team player, or at least, won't give up a win unnecessarily. Multi 21 is all Charles needs to know. He shouldn't be fooled twice and should now just race for himself, and help the team only if it utilmately benefits him.

He literally sacrificed his entire race a few races ago to help Leclerc at Spa. At the following race at Monza the favour was returned by Leclerc utterly screwing him in qualifying by taking the tow on his qualifying lap then not returning the favour. Lap analysis showed that with what the tow was worth, Vettel would have been on pole in a straight fight.

Seb went on to win in Singapore having been supreme on his in and out laps and dealt with the traffic far better than anyone else, pulling out a fairly large lead before the safety car brought the pack back together, but he comfortably controlled the race from there, while Leclerc petulantly bitched and moaned on the radio all race. Tellingly, in the last few laps when they went for the fastest lap point, Leclerc just couldn't live with Vettel at all.

Then in Russia Vettel got into the lead, was the fastest man on track and pulled out a gap, yet the team stupidly and bizarrely tried to throw away the race.

Vettel has struggled a bit on Saturdays lately (though the stats are way overblown when you take into account things like the shenanigans at Monza and engine failures at Germany and Austria) but he's been regularly the stronger driver on Sunday, and in the case where he wasn't in Spa, he willingly sacrificed himself to help Leclerc.

I really don't see how Vettel is the problem here. Ferrari's behaviour has been utterly bizarre, I don't know if Leclerc has big sponsor connections or they just want to placate him because he's obviously quite petulant while Vettel is more accommodating, but it's costing the team badly and it'd be a shame if it ends in Vettel walking away when he's been the driving force in getting the team back to the front.

nf2k

chicorytip wrote: »

Leclerc is a very fortunate young man indeed to have landed the Ferrari gig so early in his career. Verstappen is a much more accomplished racer but has made a mistake signing with Red Bull again. He needs to be in a silver or red car. Vettel is desperate to win a title with Ferrari but the team bosses clearly no longer want him around.

I'd rather be in a Red Bull now than a Ferrari. Adrian Newey + new rules = child in a candy shop! If Honda keep improving I can see them being title challengers in 2021 or shortly after. Ferrari are on a good streak now but they lack consistency.

And as said above, he can jump to one of those seats in a year or two anyway. Very hard to jump back after putting Red Bull noses out of joint be leaving. A lot of sense in making sure Red Bull won't deliver before jumping. He has loads of time.

PopePalpatine

I'd say Ferrari's leaning towards Leclerc is because he offers more of an upside than a - let's face it - aging Vettel who's got a family to worry about.

Ferrari also have form in ousting Germans in favour of younger talent.

Cork Trucker

PopePalpatine wrote: »

I'd say Ferrari's leaning towards Leclerc is because he offers more of an upside than a - let's face it - aging Vettel who's got a family to worry about.

Ferrari also have form in ousting Germans in favour of younger talent.

I wonder if Schumacher would have been dropped for 2007 if he didn't go of his own accord, or at least it looked that way publicly. They drop Finn's also. Salo would have been a good number 2 for Schumacher in the same way as Barrichello was, instead they dropped him and Raikkonen (twice).