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Child Item

M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

JupiterKid

Following on from the suggestion of a poster, this thread has been set up to discuss the need for widening the M7.

The section of the M7 IMO in immediate need (really a backlog need) for widening is the section from the Maudlins Interchange at Naas to the M9 interchange - basically the original 1983 Naas Bypass and half of the 1993 Newbridge Bypass. Is this likely to proceed in the near future?

Would the central median be wide enough for widening to D3M here? I'm pretty sure it is wide enough on the Newbridge bypass section but I'm not so sure in the case of the Naas Bypass.

Also, what bridges will need to be demolished and rebuilt? Or would it be more practical to drop the hard shoulder through the existing bridges?

What about the proposal a few years back to build a new junction at on the Naas Bypass at Osberstown? Will it still go ahead?

In the longer term, does anyone see a need to widen the M7 to the N7/M8 junction?

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MaceFace

I've just done the entire run both directions this lunchtime and I'd guess 80% of the vehicles obeyed 80km/h.

Tomrota

benny79 wrote: »

I dont think anyone is obeying the 80 kmph speed limit anyway.

Not one person that I have seen has followed it from Naas north exit to Johnstown exit anyway. It’s ironic that it’s 80 on the smooth safe surface and then goes up to 100 it when it gets so rough and sounds like a plane taking off ðŸ˜‚

SoupyNorman

benny79 wrote: »

I dont think anyone is obeying the 80 kmph speed limit anyway.

Not getting on any high horse here but I’m sticking to 80, I sit in the left lane for most of the stretch of J11 to J8 I have that lane to myself while others race up the middle and right lanes.

Have to say the lack of any sort of speed detection is baffling, the go safe vans have been gone for months.

benny79

BuzzFish wrote: »

Speed limit restrictions extended to end of November now:

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/PressReleasesAdverts/TempClosingofRoadsNoticeofDecisonL81760.html

Painful stuff when its looking almost complete from J10-J9...

I dont think anyone is obeying the 80 kmph speed limit anyway.

BuzzFish

Speed limit restrictions extended to end of November now:

http://kildare.ie/CountyCouncil/PressReleasesAdverts/TempClosingofRoadsNoticeofDecisonL81760.html

Painful stuff when its looking almost complete from J10-J9...

Darc19

For those who have issues with the dates, here's part of a press release from September 2017 when the tender was awarded.

“The awarding of today’s contract with SIAC/Colas JV is a milestone and ensures that the much needed widening works on the M7 can commence and will be completed by Autumn 2019. The contract covers the widening of the M7 to 3 lanes from the Junction 9 (the big ball) to the M7/M9 interchange, the Sallins bypass and the construction of a new interchange at Osberstown near Kerry Group.

“Based on the award of this contract, it is anticipated that the overall project will be completed by Spring 2020 with the M7 anticipated to be completed by Autumn 2019. This scheme represents an overall investment of €110m.

Darc19

Observed update.

Disclaimer. I'm not an engineer, I don't exaggerate, I like to look on the positive side of life.

Travelling from Grange castle (only do this sporadically) to Kildare Town junction.

New Osberstown junction for access to millennium Park looks to be ready. I'll guess Friday as they seem to make major changes on Fridays.

Jct 10 Southbound on and off ramp. Still looks like a good lot of work to be done. But the base layers seem to be laid ready for tarmac layers. Hopefully the crew on jct 9a will move here now and speed it up.

M9 Junction. Both north and south bound seem to have their full tarmac layers done on the m9 section (northbound done last weekend) and most of m7 section before and after the junction.

Kildare cc have overnight closures this weekend and following weekend for this completion (though they had previously cancelled similar weekends)

Overall I would hazard a guess that it will be completed before the Oct Bank holiday.

If memory serves me right, this was the time line given back in 2017 with Sallins bypass completion for March 2020?

MaceFace

Pitch n Putt wrote: »

After todays heavy rain and after all the €millions spent on the upgrade and all the time taken to complete the project.It was sad to see.

A sizeable pond of water in the middle lane about a mile and a half before the m9 southbound junction.

If it wasn’t able to cope today how will things be in the future ?

The same thing happened around Johnstown a few years back and they sorted it pretty quickly. They still left the warning sign up flashing for a though.

Pitch n Putt

After todays heavy rain and after all the €millions spent on the upgrade and all the time taken to complete the project.It was sad to see.

A sizeable pond of water in the middle lane about a mile and a half before the m9 southbound junction.

If it wasn’t able to cope today how will things be in the future ?

regedit

What is the traffic these days southbound? I've been working late most days so traffic non-existent by the time I reach J9.
Today, I was there at 5:15 PM and traffic flex, no problems at all so, wondering was today an exception (Monday) or has it now become the rule

jmkennedyie

BuzzFish wrote: »

The ramps are ready to go, with signage/lighting installed. There are gantry works still pending on the main carriageway for J9a.

The ramp to the Millennium Park is essentially complete now too with just some minor works on the junction to be completed. The off-ramp to Millennium Park is very close at this point.

Ah. I think this confusion arose earlier too.

Indeed J9A motorway interchange is looking good and ready to go. OSM here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=53.2347&mlon=-6.6832#map=14/53.2347/-6.6832

My reference to new ramps and no kerbing was for new Osberstown Road overbridge of the bypass (note not an interchange) here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=53.2424&mlon=-6.6775#map=16/53.2424/-6.6775

emfifty

Back on topic. Went for a drive around the M7 works to see where things are at.
M7/M9 merge works seem to have stalled for some reason.
Exit 10 WB merge slowly coming together but again not much activity happening there including new R445 roundabout.
Most activity taking place at Mpark interchange which looks ready to go bar some tidy up work. Asphalt complete on all slips and down towards K Foods roundabout. Just a few signs to be erected. Should be open (Kerry Foods side) imminently.
Gantry frames being installed one at a time by the looks of things including an ITS gantry eastbound between exit 9a and 9.
One brown tourist sign installed westbound close to exit for Naas north for "Punchestown and Naas racecourse".

BuzzFish

jmkennedyie wrote: »

In bypass news Osberstown overbridge advanced with ramps now but no surfacing or kerbing on ramps yet

The ramps are ready to go, with signage/lighting installed. There are gantry works still pending on the main carriageway for J9a.

The ramp to the Millennium Park is essentially complete now too with just some minor works on the junction to be completed. The off-ramp to Millennium Park is very close at this point.

Last Stop

regedit wrote: »

Many of us here were shocked to see that last year (2018), when we had an ideal weather, there was very little work been done on the main road and instead, the builders focused on the Sallins bypass section. Think about the logic of this approach! We had many posts here where people were telling us of days and days with no activity on the main strip!
Timelines were not imposed by me and you but are part of the contract between KCC and the vendor. We got told by the builders that they were hoping to open the road for the easter bank holiday 2019 (Easter, April) and we all know how it ended!
I am not contesting that issues may have arisen as they were doing work but in the grand scheme of things, this was an easy job! No major bridges, viaducts etc. If they were not able to handle small hiccups, Siac should not have been granted the contract!
Not sure what major things they found as they were 'progressing'! Also, for me it's very important for the vendor should learn to be more socially aware. Their website is abysmal, they never came here to share the progress. If they had, we may not be have having these debates.

The M7 widening and Sallins bypass is a single project. Unless the contract states otherwise, it is up to the contractor to decide how he wants to deliver the project.
Both parts of the project had strict deadlines to meet for specific elements. In the case of the Sallins bypass, the rail underbridge and on the M7 the demolition of the Osberstown bridge as well as the placement of new beams. To the best of my knowledge all of these deadlines were met.
We have not heard confirmation of any official contractual deadlines to finish the job. The deadline of Easter was a mistake by KCC and lessons should be learned from that.
I cannot agree that this was an easy job. 12km of work with 80,000 vehicles passing each day. The demolition and rebuilding of a bridge over a motorway with extensive traffic management, the construction of a bridge under a railway line, 2 river bridges, 1 canal bridge and 1 overbridge is about as complex a job as you will get.
How can not award a job to someone based on the future? SIAC won the job based on their tender price and quality. TII took them on their word that they could deliver the job. If it transpires that they cannot handle small hiccups well then there’s nothing you can do about it really except implement contractual penalties.
I have to agree with you regarding the website etc. but this is common to the majority of comtruction jobs in Ireland. If only they shot some drone footage :rolleyes:

regedit

Deleted User wrote: »

December 2018

November 2018

As a reminder, these were some of the 'expert' posts with 'insider knowledge' that people were bowing down and worshipping and insisting were unquestionable.

How do they look in retrospect?

Ah yeah, you need to be a civil engineer to be able to look at evidence, facts or approach something rationally and/or logically. The ironic thing is that the people arguing such aren't even bright enough to be aknow how ware that it's one of the most common logical fallacies.

Many of us here were shocked to see that last year (2018), when we had an ideal weather, there was very little work been done on the main road and instead, the builders focused on the Sallins bypass section. Think about the logic of this approach! We had many posts here where people were telling us of days and days with no activity on the main strip!
Timelines were not imposed by me and you but are part of the contract between KCC and the vendor. We got told by the builders that they were hoping to open the road for the easter bank holiday 2019 (Easter, April) and we all know how it ended!
I am not contesting that issues may have arisen as they were doing work but in the grand scheme of things, this was an easy job! No major bridges, viaducts etc. If they were not able to handle small hiccups, Siac should not have been granted the contract!
Not sure what major things they found as they were 'progressing'! Also, for me it's very important for the vendor should learn to be more socially aware. Their website is abysmal, they never came here to share the progress. If they had, we may not be have having these debates.

Mrs Dempsey

While I side marginally with the more positive contributors the current "Punch & Judy" debate neither amuses or informs me - perhaps it needs its own thread?

Last Stop

WishUWereHere wrote: »

I'm not going to get into an argument with You. I have no choice but to believe Your credentials. I am only commenting as one of those eejits sitting every evening on the N/M 7 while the works were ongoing, looking at machinery lying idle after 17h00, and weekends also not fully utilised, especially for last summer when it was one of the best ever.

Question: What are the reasons for not working round the clock? Please don't tell me about H&S - there are road works on the M50 & the speed is still 100kph.

There is a difference between planned road works and emergency works.
Safety is one reason.

Cost is another, night labour costs significantly more than day labour. Remember it’s far more than just the people you see on site. There’s an office of engineers who can be contact if there is a query, the deliver of materials etc etc.

Lighting is another. Far easier and safer to work in natural light than in the dark or even temporary lighting

Noise is another. I wouldn’t be too happy with round the clock working if I lived nearby. Not as big a factor on this stretch but it would have been raised during the planning application which would have put restrictions on work times

Phasing is another. Certain tasks take time and doing them at night wouldn’t necessarily speed up the job. Settlement of drainage and the time it takes for concrete to reach full strength to give just 2 examples.

They have done nightworks on this job where necessary, asphalt laying and the railway Underbridge being two notable cases. It’s just far similar and safer to work during the day

Last Stop

Deleted User wrote: »

Mate, you're the guy I caught spoofing badly a few months back pretending you had expert inside knowledge. You claimed facts and when I asked for any evidence for such claimed facts, you suddenly changed the goalposts and started talking about how it was a 'best guess'. You're everything that's wrong with this thread.

Your sole contribution has been telling us what an equilateral triangle is and then pretending that understanding it means you can condescend to everyone and blatantly make up false claims.

There are plenty of annoying posters who just come on here to rant and moan and ask for the moon and the stars so that the project is completed quicker. At least they aren't claiming inherent legitimacy - which is disingenuous bordering on dishonest. Personally, I dislike dishonesty more than posters who are just frustrated and can safely be ignored.

Mate, you need to come down of your high horse.
I have pointed out to you that TII have more experience that anyone on this forum at delivering projects. I trust them to deliver projects in the most optimal way. Do you seriously think they want people to be stuck in roadworks?

I have made many positive contributions to this thread since it started unlike you who comes on here and challenges people without a single thing to say about the project itself.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/m7-motorway-set-to-be-widened-to-three-lanes-at-naas-1.3229645
When the project began, a target date of 2020 was set. The reality is that no one here knows the contract completion date so we cannot comment saying there is delays, any other dates mentioned here are heresay and should be treated as such. It’s a discussion forum not a court of law.

WishUWereHere

Last Stop wrote: »

I’ll probably get attacked for saying this and I really don’t need much experience to point out the errors but would a degree in civil engineering and 10+ years of project management experience be sufficient for you?

To clarify the errors I was referring to:
1) round the clock working has been ruled out for a variety of reasons
2) 2 lanes were maintained throughout the job.
3) delay penalties are in place.

I'm not going to get into an argument with You. I have no choice but to believe Your credentials. I am only commenting as one of those eejits sitting every evening on the N/M 7 while the works were ongoing, looking at machinery lying idle after 17h00, and weekends also not fully utilised, especially for last summer when it was one of the best ever.

Question: What are the reasons for not working round the clock? Please don't tell me about H&S - there are road works on the M50 & the speed is still 100kph.

WishUWereHere

Deleted User wrote: »

December 2018

November 2018

As a reminder, these were some of the 'expert' posts with 'insider knowledge' that people were bowing down and worshipping and insisting were unquestionable.

How do they look in retrospect?

Ah yeah, you need to be a civil engineer to be able to look at evidence, facts or approach something rationally and/or logically. The ironic thing is that the people arguing such aren't even bright enough to be aware that it's one of the most common logical fallacies.

Sallins bypass open FULLY by September 2019? Where are these experts now? And yet another case of an 'expert' claiming the project is 'well ahead' and due to be complete Easter '19, almost 6 months ago.

Thanks for sharing this.

Last Stop

WishUWereHere wrote: »

And what qualifications have you to ascertain that you can pick out errors?

I’ll probably get attacked for saying this and I really don’t need much experience to point out the errors but would a degree in civil engineering and 10+ years of project management experience be sufficient for you?

To clarify the errors I was referring to:
1) round the clock working has been ruled out for a variety of reasons
2) 2 lanes were maintained throughout the job.
3) delay penalties are in place.

[Deleted User]

December 2018

Graniteville wrote: »

Massive amount of work was done in the summer.

Remember, a full new drainage system was required.

Over 30 teams were working a full 40 hours a week and still are.

You could have 20 teams working daytime and 10 working night, just to give people like you a good feeling, but in the real world it does not work.

Project is well ahead of time (good weather helped) and will be open in just over 3 months.

November 2018

Graniteville wrote: »

I'll just give a small amount of information.

Currently there are in excess of thirty crews working on this project.

It is on time.

The three lanes will be fully open by Easter weekend next year.

The sallins bypass and osberstown junction will open fully by September next year.

As for 24/7 works? Totally unfeasible.

Fine for simple works such as asphalt laying, but not for anything else.

Health and safety would be one issue. Cost (multiple times that of daylight working) is another. Errors due to lack of light is a third.

In any case, with almost 15km of works plus two new junctions, plus the sallins bypass, there's space and work for all available teams and project managers in normal hours.

One customer says the time delay suits the overall contractor??

How can he/she work that out. Cost is the same whether finished in April or September. If it's not delivered on time, fines are gigantic.

It was a competitive tender. Development time is as important as cost.

Huge benefits of finishing early including having contractors move to next project and bragging rights that can help win other contracts.

Easter week 2019 is the date.

As a reminder, these were some of the 'expert' posts with 'insider knowledge' that people were bowing down and worshipping and insisting were unquestionable.

How do they look in retrospect?

Ah yeah, you need to be a civil engineer to be able to look at evidence, facts or approach something rationally and/or logically. The ironic thing is that the people arguing such aren't even bright enough to be aware that it's one of the most common logical fallacies.

WishUWereHere

Last Stop wrote: »

Wow

I don’t know which is more baffling:
1) your level of self-entitlement
2) your lack of knowledge of how major engineering projects work

I think I’ll leave it at that rather than dissecting your post and all it’s errors

And what qualifications have you to ascertain that you can pick out errors?

[Deleted User]

Last Stop wrote: »

Wow

I don’t know which is more baffling:
1) your level of self-entitlement
2) your lack of knowledge of how major engineering projects work

I think I’ll leave it at that rather than dissecting your post and all it’s errors

Mate, you're the guy I caught spoofing badly a few months back pretending you had expert inside knowledge. You claimed facts and when I asked for any evidence for such claimed facts, you suddenly changed the goalposts and started talking about how it was a 'best guess'. You're everything that's wrong with this thread.

Your sole contribution has been telling us what an equilateral triangle is and then pretending that understanding it means you can condescend to everyone and blatantly make up false claims.

There are plenty of annoying posters who just come on here to rant and moan and ask for the moon and the stars so that the project is completed quicker. At least they aren't claiming inherent legitimacy - which is disingenuous bordering on dishonest. Personally, I dislike dishonesty more than posters who are just frustrated and can safely be ignored.

Cookiemunster

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Fair post but why are those who 'don't have an idea' pompous? Yes they might have different views, but does that make them pompous/engineers?

If everyone was to be politically correct, we might as well not have boards. As You say in Your 2nd paragraph, this is a discussion forum. Personally, I have stopped participating on this forum ( yes I still read as some people Mr. Kennedy for example, upload updates which are very helpful ), and have also put one person on my ignore list, because ( to me ) they come across as being the rightous one and everyone else is wrong/pompous/engineers/rocketscientists.

Why can't we just agree to disagree without resorting to name calling?

I used the word pompous because it was the word used in the post I quoted. Maybe ask regedit why he/she used it.

jmkennedyie

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Back to the works, anyone have any idea when the exit SB @ J10 will be complete?

Dunno but that slip has kerbing...maybe hard-core...and no tarmac layers so a few weeks at least i guess. There is a fair bit of relevelling required of existing road on j10 bridge over the motorway.

In bypass news Osberstown overbridge advanced with ramps now but no surfacing or kerbing on ramps yet
Some canal bridge beams delivered (a few weeks ago)
Area between Osberstown road under railway and up to canal bridge being relevelled
Bypass at Clane end received new hard-core/base layer

WishUWereHere

regedit wrote: »

I like this post.
As in every field, there's people who know more than others on a specific topic. I am an expert in ABC and if I am on a non-ABC I don't resort to slating the posters unless there's safety issues involved but I shake my head and move on. I use my own expertise specifically in those ABC forums.
People with a sense of entitlement often come here to try letting us know know inept we are!
Way easier to just ignore the post rather than start asking for credentials, expertise etc...
In this instance, 1-2 posters went after _Kaiser_ whose posts I really enjoy reading as he/she is always logical and pragmatic.
My last post on this topic so will move on to actual M widening now

CAn only but agree on Kaiser, and always thought he/she was very reasonable with their comments. You also provided a great service posting weekly photographic progress from the Sallins bridge.

But no, others have to firstly disagree, & then retort with lowlife name calling. One of these posters, I think, acted the exact same way under another name. Thankfully boards gives the ignore option & I don’t h@ve to read their posts.

Back to the works, anyone have any idea when the exit SB @ J10 will be complete?

regedit

WishUWereHere wrote: »

Fair post but why are those who 'don't have an idea' pompous? Yes they might have different views, but does that make them pompous/engineers?

If everyone was to be politically correct, we might as well not have boards. As You say in Your 2nd paragraph, this is a discussion forum. Personally, I have stopped participating on this forum ( yes I still read as some people Mr. Kennedy for example, upload updates which are very helpful ), and have also put one person on my ignore list, because ( to me ) they come across as being the rightous one and everyone else is wrong/pompous/engineers/rocketscientists.

Why can't we just agree to disagree without resorting to name calling?

I like this post.
As in every field, there's people who know more than others on a specific topic. I am an expert in ABC and if I am on a non-ABC I don't resort to slating the posters unless there's safety issues involved but I shake my head and move on. I use my own expertise specifically in those ABC forums.
People with a sense of entitlement often come here to try letting us know know inept we are!
Way easier to just ignore the post rather than start asking for credentials, expertise etc...
In this instance, 1-2 posters went after _Kaiser_ whose posts I really enjoy reading as he/she is always logical and pragmatic.
My last post on this topic so will move on to actual M widening now

WishUWereHere

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Whatever happened to 90km/h limiters on HGVs... and banning them from the outer lane? This is a real danger on the roads but there appears to be next to no enforcement of it. And if they've bypassed the limiter you can bet they've bypassed the tacho as well.

Whatever happened to everyone adhering to the law - 80kph? Even the notice of 13,700 summonses ( which had been flashing for a long time ) issued so far has disappeared.

WishUWereHere

Cookiemunster wrote: »

You do know that your post could be turned around 180 degrees?

As in a pompous group of posters who don't have any idea about the management of a road widening project coming on here and shouting down anyone who may know what they're talking about because they don't like being stuck in road works.

Just saying like.

And as to the second part of your post, well, it's a discussion forum and people are entitled to post their opinions, even if you disagree with them. It would be a pretty boring place if that wasn't the case.

Fair post but why are those who 'don't have an idea' pompous? Yes they might have different views, but does that make them pompous/engineers?

If everyone was to be politically correct, we might as well not have boards. As You say in Your 2nd paragraph, this is a discussion forum. Personally, I have stopped participating on this forum ( yes I still read as some people Mr. Kennedy for example, upload updates which are very helpful ), and have also put one person on my ignore list, because ( to me ) they come across as being the rightous one and everyone else is wrong/pompous/engineers/rocketscientists.

Why can't we just agree to disagree without resorting to name calling?